Forums » The Lounge » Read Thread

I've thought for a while. What are the other perspectives in war? I mean, I'm American, and people consider America as the "big brother". I really don't think that's true. Since when have countries appreciated us marching in on their territory and fighting their battle? Well, sometimes it's out of generosity, but would you want a potential enemy storming in and helping? It's happened before. Long ago the Chinese let in the nearby tribe to help fight back the Mongols - and they conquered them both.

We came in on Vietnam. We came in with the English in WW 2. BUT, I'm not saying the U.S is really bad. I'm just saying, it wouldn't hurt to look at other perspectives. Today people say "Communism? Those bastards," and spit on the ground. Though it may not seem like a fair system, many people live regularly in it. An example, the Chinese. Sure, we are on the brink of a bad relationship. 

Here's another thing I question: Adolf Hitler. Sure he was a cruel and evil ruler, who tortured and attempted genocide. There was a reason people liked him. Maybe he was charismatic? Whatever the reason, I still hate him. But, I question his followers. Why did they follow him? Why would people follow such a cruel and evil leader? What made them follow? They might have just been dumb, but maybe they have a reason.

Anyways, what's your opinion on the different subjects of war? How does it apply to "History is written by the winners"?

I'd rather not to post my opinion on here.

Lel.

Because you know I hate debates. I'd rather keep my opinion to myself.

Then don't clutter up the thread. Nobody's asking for your opinion. 

History isn't always written by the winners, it's just that the winners usually own and endorse the schools that everyone goes to, so everyone hears the winners' version of history more often, but occassionally, the losers' point of view gets out.

The first Crusaders ate babies? Probably not. There might have been cannibalism, but both sides were dehumanizing each other to insane and laughable degrees. The vikings were all bloodthirsty barbarians who wore horns on their helmets and drank from the skulls of their enemies? No, vikings were just dudes who decided to raid things, and everybody had their shit raided.

Same thing goes with Hitler. Was he a monster through and through? Nobody really knows. He was definitely crazy, though, and suffering from syphyllis. He was never a gifted writer, but he could rile up a crowd. Nobody had any better ideas at the time, or, at least they couldn't form a good opposition against him, and he won with a majority vote of 30%. He was never a good thinker. He sent copies of his favorite pulp magazine stories in order to teach his generals how to fight a war on two fronts. That's the modern equivalent of sending your police force all the Die Hard movies to teach them how to handle Terrorist situations. And it's not to say that Hitler wasn't a backwards guy, because he was, but most of the things he did that were extraordinarily smart and/or extraordinarily evil are probably plans misattributed to him by close advisors and high-ranking officials, he was pretty much just an eccentric figurehead for a party that was much bigger than he was, and his brain was literally rotting from the inside out.

 there are some exceptions like the Spartans. 

People followed Hitler because of the Glory and Wealth he promised his country and very well made that promise happen before they were defeated. It would have been a intersting history had they won with their rule of quality over quantity, and they would have to if it weren't for the invasion of Russia.Examples of that path to glory are still shown today ;]. 

I personally like Sparta better than Athens.

THIS...IS...SPARTA!!!

Remember our visiting Sturmenfrontfuhrer. He was dumb, uneloquent and terribly woeful at his propagandizing. And yet, he's a contributing member to their little fetid cult. Ditto that sunshine who has that youtube video, 7 rights men don't have. Also ineloquent, mentally feeble, poor at expression and a bunch of other unflattering terms.

Throw fear and change and loss of status at people, and they'll believe any bullshit. And as the facts start to become apparent, they've already sunk in too far to the myth, to believe they could be so foolish as to believe such falsehoods, to rationally step out again.

So, question things, and don't worry overly much about it. People be dumb, try not to be dumb about the important things :D

I feel like I need to quote you on that.

Mason, if you have any questions about WWII or what led up to it, you realize this is a subject people have studied and written extensively about for decades? Many of them people who experienced those events first hand? Just saying, a trip to the library could maybe clear up some of the mysteries there for you. 

Well, I'd say in regard to US in the world wars and them everything else are completely different. I'm thankful they joined in the World Wars, but it pisses me off that they always try to make it about them. In a movie about the team that stole the enigma machine, they rewrote the guys from British to American. I think their media trays to portray them as the driving force behind the campaign's while shitting on everyone else who fought for it.

In regard to Vietnam and the Middle East, America invaded to fight what should've been a civil war and then to create anarchy, and they were fucking idiotic to do so. Here in Ireland (Or in my family and friends), they're kind of seen as punch-happy assholes who see a problem and try to use military wrath to vaporize it.

Hitler is, and I HATE to make this comparison, like Trump (Or Bernie, I guess) in that he had minority support, but his supporters were super passionate and dedicated. Anyway, I think he's given an unfair spotlight. The other European countries were also super anti-Semitic and tried to keep Jewish refugees out and in Germany. Sure, Hitler was worse, but not by THAT much, and no one ever brings up other countries' anti semtisim. Hell, the allies didn't even fully liberate the death camps, they kept all gays as prisoners and just transferred them, which gets no attention. Hitler's genocide conquering isn't even that much worse than Andrew Jackson's trail of tears. Still, he was a douchebag, just so were a lot of people who won the war.

XD, we are one fucking 1st world country.

If you guys weren't so damn full of yourselves, it'd be OK, but with the circle jerk of patriotism that is your news and media, that probably won't change.

I personally hate our shitty two-party system.

Not really what I was referring to, but agreed.

I felt like I should add that xD.

If you want to start listing things America is shitty in regards to, we'd be here all night. I mean, it's a country where Trump has a huge shot at being president, you're all super right wing and patriotic, you thought replacing burger buns with chicken was a meal...

Feels good to rag on the U.S. I'm not the most patriotic type when it comes to the U.S., but a fair bit of that is because other people talk it up so much.

Where do you even get ideas like that? I'm honestly curious. In my experience, most Americans won't shut up about how much they hate America. Bitching about the government is pretty much the national pass time, and everyone hates the police.

To be fair, all I get is your media (American Sniper, the Patriot, London has Fallen, all of your Cop Dramas/ Documentaries), which is all patriotic drivel, your candidates, one of which is slated for pointing out that Europe has some cool stuff too as unpatriotic, and the entire state of Florida, which is the only part of Ameirica I've been to for more than a week or two, where there were flags everywhere and my family there were so patriotic that when I criticized the U.S. gun laws, they looked like I had proposed a gangbang with dogs. Still, not what complete view of America, I suppose, though I'd wonder if you've seen any European countries for comparison in the level of patriotism.

Except China is more of a conglomerate of monopolisms across the industries.  Just because China has a large military and a stagnated political system doesn't mean it's communist, especially if it's fulfilling the very opposite that Marx had intended a communist nation to be (Cuba and briefly Chile were closer to Communism in respect to not having foreign companies manage the economy, much less trade).  China is a trading powerhouse with an economy less regulated than ours.  Explains why quality control can tank for all anyone cares.

Hitler became a leader the same reason why Stalin and Mussolini became the leaders : quality of life was an all-time low because of WWI, so people turned to the faction that seemed to command the most strength.  For Mussolini and Hitler, their parties' initial mafia-like behavior got them traction.

And of Stalin?

I hate him with a passion.  He turned what Lenin was already fucking up into a 50-year shit show based on his and Lenin's personalities.  All of Lenin's work, subverted.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GgZYCj39M38

?This guy, perfect description of what America is.