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Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

About five hours ago (around 10pm in GB), two separate terror attacks happened at London Bridge and near Borough Market. The three men involved have been killed, and there are six dead and around thirty injured so far. The terrorists attacked passersby with machetes, and one of the attacks involved driving over people. Here's some articles.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/london-attack-what-we-know-so-far-20170603-gwjwzq.html

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/uk-on-high-alert-after-london-bridge-incident/news-story/3fdc4f838a8abc9dfc1f20b7a6b08460

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40146916

[MODS MIGHT WANT TO MAKE THIS A SEPARATE THREAD, IDK]

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

Muslims gonna muslim 

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
I can only assume the end game goal is to get even people like Will wanting to glass the Middle East.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
I suspect the timing of these attacks in the middle of the UK General Election is to get the more peacefully inclined Jeremy Corbyn elected Prime Minister :) These attacks don't really make me angry against the Middle East or Muslims in general, just sad for the gullible fools who commit these attacks. I think extremism generates extremism because these attacks happen then some people (like my Grandad) say things like "we should kill all these ragheads", more bombs get dropped on terrorist locations, inevitably accidentally killing civilians, so the terrorists get more pissed off and work harder to launch more attacks on western countries so the whole vicious cycle continues - at least the UK hasn't had it as badly as France. Incidentally Trump exploiting these attacks to further his whole political agenda on Twitter makes people annoyed and if he ever visits the UK I hope he gets egged :)

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
Incidentally I'll be flying back to the UK via London on 14 June with my Chinese girlfriend so we might swing by Westminster Bridge and London Bridge - China doesn't really have terrorism outside Tibet (where the "terrorists" basically symbolically kill themselves making them rather easy to deal with) so it'll be interesting for Yi Qi to see this aspect of Western culture... it's sad it's become such a routine thing. How did the world get into this situation? I miss pre 9/11.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

I'd pin it down to when America pulled out of the Middle East (Wherever Saddam was.) with no exit strategy and made things worse over there. Like it or not, Saddam was keeping the terrorists in check (to my knowledge). That was probably the 'turning point'/trigger that set off everything, alongside other things...

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

I'd say even farther back, with the collapse of the Ottoman empire.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

You sound just like my dad. Whenever the Middle East is brought up, he starts insulting America and complimenting the Saddam regime for being efficient.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

In what way was I insulting America? And when did I compliment Saddam on running an efficient regime?

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

Didn't mean to say you were. I wasn't making a passive-aggressive comment, just that you said it was Saddam keeping terrorism down, quite rightfully, and it's something my dad says near constantly, although on a farther level.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

Ah, k. 

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

Muslims aren't supposed to do that (NOBODY is supposed to do that). Frankly, the whole thing is super terrifying, but my Islamic family has always been peaceful. Islam is about revering Allah, not killing people.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them!" Surah 8 Verse 12. Seems like its about revering Allah AND killing people there, bud.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

Okay, I get that. I know that doesn't sound great or anything. But the Bible says you shouldn't eat shrimp and something about "The Gays™" and there are some really great Christian folk who love Happy Feet 2 (Haha, get it? No?). I guess you're right about that there, but... I can't help but feel that it's a matter of interpretation. My grandfather believed in tolerance and love first and foremost.

Am I suggesting cherry-picking religious texts? Hmm. I think that you should think for yourself, and the Muslims that I grew up with and know think and believe with a good heart.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

Yeah, the Bible does say that. The fact that other people are hypocrites doesn't excuse someone else being one.

If a book you're supposed to follow has rules, it's not a matter of interpretation. You are, as you said yourself, cherry-picking.

Shit, even if you were right and it was just a matter of interpretation, you're still being stupid when you say Muslims aren't supposed to do that, as if your family's interpretation is the right one even though it disregards a bunch of their holy book.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

Well, I guess no matter what I do, I'll just get screamed at by this tiny hedgehog, and I probably'll get yelped at even if I let it be! So here it is, one way or another:

MY CYNICAL, KINDA SAD VIEW: Organized religion (or at least the stuff written down with rules n' stuff in books) is meant to control people. Half of the ten commandments are to serve the church and the other half is sorta half right. I've never enjoyed "Because The Bible Tells Me Soooo!" reasoning. I'm not shutting down aaall religion, it's just that the rules really bug me and seem strange or self-serving a lot of the time. When I see something about striking another down, I think to myself, "That can't be it! Who ever wrote this is trying to do something else."

MY BELIEF IN A BETTER HUMANITY VIEW: It's not just my family. When I was young young, I went to Morocco. Sandy, hot, beautiful, full of pigeons. People were kind. They believed in religion as an expression of love rather than a tool of hate, which I find incredibly admirable! So I suppose they DO cherry-pick a bit, and is that right? I dunno what to say. My friends who are other sects of Islam (several folks from Indonesia, India, whatever else) are the same way. They practice peacefully and that's all.

  So I'm not saying "go succ a chode, l00ser!" or anything, it's just that RELIGION IS CONFUSING AND HARD and there are so many ways to go about it! How about this: Muslims don't always go around blowing people up and posting propaganda featuring the beheading of infidels on the internet. Often times they are normal people, except they don't eat bacon, which some people might find not normal. I come from a pretty biased source, blah-de-blah, you get the idea. Uh, peace out!

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

Yeah, nothing here I really disagree with. I know Muslims who are lovely people, my main disagreement with you was that you tried to define Islam as something it isn't rather than just say all Muslims aren't bad, something I'd agree with.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

Didn't know Puddle was Muslim.

Quick, get her!

She's not a commie though at least.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

Nope nope, I'm not Muslim myself, but my father was and so was his family. They're all really nice and they have a lot of camels.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
Camels smell worse than pig shit. And they fart. Dreadful.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
gg

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
It's interesting/kind of worrisome how organized these UK attacks have been and the number of people involved. In the US it's usually just some rando that ISIS sort of shrugs and takes credit for after the fact.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
As much as people like to harp on the states, canada and the us both do a lot better than Europe at integrating new comers. France did well for a while too, but a decade or so ago decided they stopped giving a fuck about integrating immigrants and shut down all their programs.

As a result most new comers are shuffled into ghettos and live in poverty their whole lives, while feeling outcasted. Easy pickings for recruiters.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
Not trying to start a discussion here, but definitely the US, and I presume the Canadians as well, have an obscenely stringent array of background checks that have to be passed before anyone's let in. That heavy and lengthy process means that only the people who are fairly committed and with a strong background get in, the type who tend to make an effort to fit in on their own even if the state itself doesn't help much. The checks can take upwards of three years as per the current situation, even before the Trump administration made a public stance to somehow make it even more onerous.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
When it helps keep out those deplorable baskets, onerous is good ^_^

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
Semi-related, what's this about CNN staging a protest? All I can find are people going 'yes u did/no we didn't' but my phone has cancer so I didn't spend very long looking for details.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

It's dumb.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/media/social-media-users-accuse-cnn-of-fake-news-over-staged-london-attack-protest/news-story/48d9966b71d72a26149b9f9ebae75465

This sums it all up really.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
Meanwhile in Paris: useless little bitch hits a cop with a hammer, gets promptly shot

Give this man....hmm, 30% of a virgin for effort, if he doesn't survive.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

It's depressing how this thread has become the "terrorism general".

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

What?

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
I guess a bunch of people got driven into outside a mosque in London a few hours ago. I don't have a lot of details yet but they said eight were hospitalized. I don't think anybody died but I guess the novelty of reverse terrorism made it just barely exciting enough to get a mention in the news this month.

Anyway I was sort of surprised there were still any Muslims left in London at all because I thought the third world level building and fire safety codes already got them all.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

To be fair, probably far better for the Muslims that this happened. Kind of turns a "Muslims are killing people with cars, fuck them" kind of story into a more "Let everyone unite against people who drive into others in cars, fuck them".

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
That would certainly be nice, but really hoping for it would would require a kind of idealistic faith in humanity I'm not sure my black and shriveled heart is capable of anymore.

Theresa May at least is presumably thrilled at a chance to make stern speeches denouncing whatever and shift everyone's focus away from how much they hate her.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
Now I'm thinking of what good TV it would make if a radical Islam van and a racist white guy van accidentally collided on the way to their targets, and then the drivers got out and fought.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

One guy died.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/19/several-casualties-reported-after-van-hits-pedestrians-in-north-london

 

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
They're actually not sure if he was one of the ones hit, it was an older man who had collapsed and people were trying to help him just before the attack.

Of course even if it were the most poorly timed heart attack ever, the driver may still be legally responsible for killing him if he made it so medical help was delayed.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
Huh. The guy is from Wales so he drove like 200 miles to target that specific mosque.

Supposedly not supposedly it had links to terrorism in the past so people are speculating that may have been his reasoning, but it's been run by different people for years.

But anyway they actually got the guy alive this time because some guys in the crowd were able to pull him out of the van and hold him down till police got there, so this time they can just get all the crazy straight from the source instead of having to piece it together afterwards.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
And just now...

A car deliberately hit a police van before bursting into flames on the Avenue des Champs-Élysées in central Paris, police officials say.

The driver, who was on a security watchlist, died in the incident. Police found a Kalashnikov rifle, handguns and gas bottles in the car.

"Security forces have been targeted in France once again," Interior Minister Gérard Collomb said, calling it an "attempted attack".

No-one else was hurt in the incident.

lol fail

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

I hope he survived long enough to realize he'd killed no one.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
One can only hope.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

Man Europe is in bad shape.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
thought this was normal for europe?

I guess it's too early for it to be normal for them. Well, europe is probably an easier target for terrorists anyways and when they kill a few people it gets more coverage than in america as far as I've seen.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

America has roughly a mass shooting a day, no one gives a shit.The fact that there's been a few highly publicized events is indicative of literally nothing. You have a vague habit of taking highly publicized but ultimately infinitesimally useless events and thinking they speak for the area as a whole. Don't do that, it's stupid.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

I'm not referring to jut this incident alone. I'm keeping in mind the whole refugee fiasco that's happening in Germany, France, the UK etc. Besides, how is it indicative of literally nothing? Seeing that it's in France (and I think Paris I can't really remember) it just reflects the sorry state the country is in due to the culture clash between the two people. I never said that this event speaks for the area as a whole either. And how have you come to the conclusion that I've got said vague habit? 

I have a sneaking suspicion that you like to jump to conclusions. (Jumping to my own conclusion here, are you saying that Europe isn't in a bad shape?)

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

A handful of minor incidents that are heavily publicized aren't indicative of much, no. That should be obvious. And you did say that the area as a whole, the continent of Europe, is in a bad shape, so yeah. The vague habit comes from you doing similar things, like taking a slight increase of rapes that's again statistically nothing in Switzerland and saying it's important enough to remove their position as one of the best countries.

Not particularly to both statements, in the grand scheme of things.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

The whole Switzerland thing came from me thinking it was a huge problem. So yeah I was simply wrong on that front. Obviously a handful of minor incidents aren't indicative of much - yet with some external knowledge I just made the link to how the culture clash between Middle-Eastern refugees and the Westerners is becoming an issue that needs to be addressed. In the grand scheme of things, yeah maybe this whole situation doesn't matter that much. Yet, right now you can't deny that we have a terrorist problem that has permeated the public sphere (at least, in West Europe). 

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

Yeah, you were wrong, but you thought that way for a reason, and I believe it's a similar line of thinking that brought you here. You agree these incidents aren't indicative of much, yet you still use them to make the point there's some grandiose cultural clash, which is fairly contradictory.

We have a fairly global terrorist problem, given most liberal countries are ideologically opposed to extremist groups. Sure there's a problem, but all states have problems. Really doesn't mean it's in a bad state. I'd be curious to what continent you're even comparing Europe to.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

Never meant to use them to prove that Europe was in bad shape, was just voicing an observation. This whole culture clash thing was separate knowledge. Maybe me replying to the car ramming post made it seem that way.

Since West Europe pretty much had a massive refugee intake in a short amount of time, there was little preparation (such as background checks + border security etc.) to prevent radicals from entering. Maybe the increased terrorism problem wasn't caused by this - but let's be real it's happening because of 'the West's'  failure to foresee how having that many refugees (whose culture is, in many cases, contradictory to Western values/culture) come in would make it easier for terrorists to convert them into 'sleeper agents'. Seeing that places like France haven't made any real attempts at assimilating them into Western values, and there are sentiments against those that critique Islam from the pussyfooting authorities and the liberals, this mess is perpetuated/escalated.

If you want me to compare them to some other country, let's go with anywhere that didn't have this sudden influx of refugees come in (excluding Africa). 

And also, holy shit you type fast.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

Well yeah, you were replying to something, so it coming out of the blue doesn't particularly make sense. It's like if I replayed to this saying I'm shit sick of American people acting like they understand Irish culture. A valid opinion, but not the place to say that or relevant in any way.

I doubt it's a lack of foresight: I think most people knew increased Muslim immigration meant more terrorism, it's just an acceptable risk. ANyhow, I agree that it's a problem, but in the grand scheme of things, not one that brings down Europe or justifies saying it's in bad shape.

Continent, not country, and already going with North America, US alone has mass shootings daily, roughly speaking.

Reason I've so many stories, I suppose.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
Man the terrorists are working so hard to erode the brief cuddly feelings people were having towards Muslims in London, but just failing so badly. Brussels now too? How hard is it to kill people, really.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

I feel like I'm watching a kid with down syndrome trying to kick puppies. I don't want them to succeed, but it's still a bummer.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago
I never thought people setting themselves on fire could be so funny though.

Update to London: More terror attacks

6 years ago

Yeah, Europe is in bad shape.