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Me and my friend got into an argument about what is music. I say rap is music but he says no due to the fact it's beats are computer generated. He says country, rock, heavy metal, ect are music due to the fact that they use actual instrument. Drums guitars, ect. Also country music lyric speak truth, and rap is just about doing girls, spending and bragging about how rich the rappers is. 

 Do you think that rap is music or not.

By his logic every form of techo is not music lol. Tell him he's wrong and he should feel bad.

Define an instrument? A computer can be an instrument just as much as the violin or guitar so saying its made on a computer can never mean it isn't music. 

I don't like a lot of rap music but at its roots and base it was a meaningful and lyrical expression of the life and times and there are many amazing examples of rap songs that would put much country, rock and heavy metal to shame.

Basically it may not be my type of music but it is music. Anytime he tries to say otherwise here are some responses.

1. made on a computer: Made on a block o wood with some string mostly controlled by a computer? no difference really both instruments.

2. lyrics? Country music is either about being drunk or about being rejected. Metal about self harm and Rock about Drugs. If you try to reduce a genre to its work and sadly most popular sub-genre of lyrical content then nothing looks good but Rap has more 'Real' lyrics then most of the crap in the charts.

As I said its not my usual taste but doesn't mean its not music and your friends arguments hold no water. Go back only a short time and The 'Real instruments' he is talking about would be considered crap toys. (I played the violin and the Base guitar btw.)

Not to mention a lot of what we hear being played is actually computer sound anyway, because unless we are listening to a live show, its been recorded and played back the way similar to how it is done when originally generated on a computer anyway. So... nothing but live shows are music?

Hehe - good point. By the 'friends' own definition, only live music would qualify.

 

By definition your friend is wrong however I think that he was taking a more philosophical viewpoint on what music would be

I agree with what you think he is arguing but he should word it better lol

Basically if he is arguing that the Crap currently peddled as rap music isn't real music then philosophically I'd have to agree with his view since it is computer-generated crap made with no real intent or effort and with no lyrics other than sex or swearing.

There's so much more rap out there beyond what's "popular" that doesn't include "computer generated crap made with no real intent or effort with no lyrics other than sex or swearing." It isn't fair to generalize a genre based on the a few particularly shitty yet well known artists. Even misogynistic rap that makes 50 references to drugs is still music. 

Read ANY of my earlier posts- you are just repeating them.

This post was a simple reply to a point about whether he was being philosophical about that specific subset of the genre in his intent.

Or, you know, he hates rap and just can't think of a real reason to hate it, so he tries to lamely legitimize his hate by making shit up.

He says to listen to dirt road anthem by Jason Aldeen, then listen to it's remix with ludacris. He says it's terrible, but like him with rap music i dislike country, i think of it as music and but i just don't like it except for Johnny Cash- 'their ain't no grave'.

Terrible wouldn't make it not music. Terrible is just his opinion of it.

As well as it's actual quality

Your opinion is subjective; it is not an objective analysis of its quality.

So you're saying it's not a shitty song?

 

That's not what I meant, what I meant was that you defending the quality of the video by saying that my opinion is not an objective analysis of quality (and really how is it possible to objectively determine the quality of music?) implies that you yourself might actually enjoy the rapping country singer.

"The argument was not about the quality of the song." *translation end*

"As well as it's actual quality"

You're projecting your opinion as a fact, which it is not, which is what I continually pointed out. I find it annoying when people say "X genre/song is bad". No, that genre/song is not bad, you just don't like it.

It doesn't imply at all that I enjoyed it. I never bothered to actually watch it.

^This

ETechnically, yes, although it's not my favorite kind, rap IS music. Just because the beat is computer generated, doesn't make it any less of a beat. Besides, anything can be an instrument. If someone used a music writing software like Sebalius to write a piece of classical music, it would still be music.

And what your friend says about the subject matter of rap? No offence, but BULL AND INDEED SHIT. Rap can be about anything, just like any other music. If he doubts, show him the song Read All About It.

Rap is music.

Techno still sucks though.

Someone give this man a prize, because he is a genius! (No sarcasm here, I just hate Techno.)

This argument is laughable.

I want to start slapping people now.  If people view teens with autotuned voices as musical, I can probably say that even rap songs are many times more musical.  Same with electronic music.  If every fucking pop song (yes you Gangnam Style) has an electronic instrument and is considered musical, then I am confused as to why electronics aren't potential instruments.

I could like just about any song except for Free Jazz, Death Metal, Classical, Contemporary Classical, and Pop.  Of course, there are a few exceptions...

So it's a kind of traditional vs modern way of making music argument?

Also I agree with Endmaster & Swift.

Well it really depends on personally preference. 

And tell your friend he is a complete and utter idiot, yes many rap has techno but even country and rock uses a tech board to remix. Besides that point all different singers sing about different things like a rap person sings about truth while a country could song about women.

One song:

Raise Your Weapon.

You strip off all the electronics, it's your friend's definition of music.

Strip off the voice, keep the electronics, and it's STILL a melody.  It still obeys to sheet music (having audible notes), it still follows a tempo, it still has everything that can make it musical.  Although it feels absurd to a human's ear, you can still identify a melody from it.

If it is created through a series of sounds and enjoyed by a large enough group of people it will be considered music however that does not restrict your own personal opinion of what music is as many people have varying beliefs and preferences 

mu·sic

/'myuz?k/  Show Spelled [myoo-zik]  Show IPA

 

 

musical instrument

noun

any of various devices or contrivances that can be used to produce musical tones or sounds

 

(Yeah, I'm bored...)

Is mayonnaise an instrument?

Actually, if you use it to make music, yes. Mayo is an instrument.

Go see (or yourtube) Stomp for for fun and creative instruments.

Is it wrong to slather mayo on bacon?

If something like that is wrong, then I don't want to be right.

My friend would say no. Due to the it can be used to make music it's not an instrument.

"Due to the it can be used to make music it's not an instrument."

Makes sense.

Hmm... Sounds Legit...

Tell him that's an oxymoron.  Tell him to look it up.  Then ask if he could correct his sentence that states his idea in a way that makes sense [which shouldn't happen, seeing how that's as clear as it gets]

By definition, the sound of solid facts bouncing melodiously off your friend's thick skull would also qualify as music... 

Simply put your friend does't understand the words 'music' or 'instrument'. Until he learns what they actually mean then its impossible to argue with him normally since his ideas are based off a delusional representation in his head which doesn't exist in real life.

Just saying, I know lots of Christian rap artists. And some of they're songs are really good. Look up Lecrea, that's the only one I can think of at the top of my head xD

http://www.stomponline.com/index-us.php

So if brooms, trash cans, and bottles are instruments, what makes a computer any less of an instrument.

For those interested, they have a long discussion about this subject over at this forum

There is a long discussion here too.

Oooh - I clicked on the link and it took me back in time to where I just opened this thread!!!

(Took me four hundred and seventy two days to finally escape your treacherous loop! - Fiendish. Very Fiendish indeed.)

Oh my gosh Galo I've never seen this place before! It's amazing! But full of creeps

Like? I have been a member there for two months and never seen a creep.

That guy in a gorrilla suit that flings poo on everyone... What was his name again?... Here, take this silver banana - it will protect you from his wrath!

Him. Never heard of him. Still, this banana is good. Om nom nom

o.O   But... it was... solid silver...

Oh, it was solid silver. Mah teeth muscht be getting stronger, as i didnt notice. Hmm, must be all the penguin eating.

<.<

I was kidding lol

So, I was wondering if the 'argument' was ever settled...

what the hell is the question anyway? one second we're arguing over rap and another we're talking about silver bananas

It's all Aman's fault. He's such a god-like thread derailer, that he doesn't even have to be in the thread to derail it...

I believe his mustache is rubbing off on us.

Nooo, it can not be. I could not have derailed thread because of the fiendishness of aman. Sob I will not accept this.