It suddenly occurs to me that I assigned you all homework for Christmas (or winter, in some cases) break. Most of you are probably off school and slacking off. I should have started the contest once school began, so that you'd avoid homework by slacking off writing a story.
Is this the case? I suspect so, due to the massive variance between submissions in October (~50), and the finished products in December. I wouldn't want to do anything over Christmas break either.
I suspect that extending the contest into the school year, such that you slack off from homework by writing (or finishing) your story, would be ideal.
Probably bad timing on my part, getting all excited to start a contest.
What say we extend the contest until March 1st? All in favor?
Sounds good for the contesters. (Don't mind me, just checking in,)
Yes, it sounds very good. Now perhaps I could actually finish the story in time to enter it, and perhaps get a bunch of extra credit in language arts if I even make it to the top seven. Probably going to get extra credit for this anyway though. That'll slightly make up for my lack of ability to actually see the board without disrupting the class, resulting in a D.
I don't particularly care about working over winter break; actually, this is the time where I have practically unlimited time on the computer to write. Though with my new laptop, perhaps I can sneak in a couple hours once school starts up again and get this done despite my time restrictions on electronics that comes with school.
I seemed to be rather over ambitious, because even with this new deadline, I'd have to write about 2 - 2 1/2 pages every day to actually fully finish the story that has a fully fleshed out endings. About 200 pages as a minimum to be fully wrapped up I believe. For any other person, this might not be so bad, but I'm a rather slow typer who has had a bit of writers block recently and is very behind in the writing goals.
Do you need glasses?
Yes, but we can't afford them, or my mom forgets to get me checked out for an exact prescription, or this happens, etc. It's been about three to four years now that we've known that I need glasses.
>_> Geez. That's ... pretty damn negligent, no offense.
dude i am sorry to hear that
Ahh, and I was all excited to publish my story in a day's time!
But I totally understand pushing the deadline a couple of months, even though it's just so very far away... But by then at least much more people will likely finish. Additionally, I'll definitely be able to write the other branch for my story, which I hopefully still have steam for.
You'll also have a huge leg up on proof-reading and fine-tuning. Won't lie, I envy you for that.
... ^^; ... >.>' Couldn't curb the enthusiasm. Sorry, but, please do. December was insanely busy for me.
Aye! I'm definitely in favor. Life has thrown me a curve recently (hopefully in a good way). I'll try to find time and energy enough for the competition.
I would vote 'No' to extension. However I would say check how many entries you might have first, I can understand if you wont have many entries making the deadline longer.
My story wont be finished in time, it really wont even be close, but I have spent the last couple of days getting SOMTHING ready to enter as I saw the deadline as a way to make myself get writing done in a timely fashion. What I enter might not be properly spelling or grammar checked and will only be a segment of the intended full length story but I will have finished something that is a playable game with branches and endings in the given time, it also won't be short by any means as its still well over 60,000 words.
If the extension is given and I have two months more I will maybe truly finish the first branch and have most of a second one done but I will still be putting in a partial game as an entry for two reasons: I'll be back at work and my time to write will be severely reduced, possibly nonexistent, and my story turned out to be so vastly bigger than I originally thought that it will take a great many months to complete.
I'll join if you extend the date.
I'd given up on the contest as I didn't think I could churn out a worthy CYOA within a month's time (I'd only just discovered it by then), but it's likely I'll reconsider this if this extension occurs.
Very much in favour.
so its settled? Extended till March? This is not an announcement, this is a question lol
Definitely in favor. This holiday season virtually killed my activity on this site, and I suspect this will benefit everyone entering the contest, including those with something ready to submit.
This looks eerily familiar...However this text interface does not.
Whenever I think of this website I consider how many people plant themselves thinking they'll produce something to be proud of with their time invested here. Most people just ending up finding a very efficient pass time. We should not devalue our word by acting against it. If our actions and our pledges are not integrated than we really do ourselves a significant harm. We ought to have more integrity than that. Excellence is a habit.
Mediocrity is the state we fall into when we aren't maintaining excellence. If we want to do well, than effort is required, if we want to do badly, than nothing is required.
What often happens is that we have grandiose thoughts. When we do not live up to our expectations we'd rather produce nothing than something of that quality. Because nothing can't be bad; it is absence, not inferiority. Somehow quitting is more noble than failing. That might be the case, if it weren't that completing something, though it be less than you might have dreamed, is a step in the habit of excellence.
In the long run, not winning is not the same as losing. Losing is more a matter of stepping out of excellence as I see it. I have done allot of losing. It's sad to look at things we would have liked to have accomplished and weigh out what we ended up doing instead. We're not uprooted yet, so we can choose to optimistic about our pasts, but I'd rather set optimistic energy to the present for the benefit of what comes later.
Glad you're still dragging yourself along madglee.
Heyo, Some of you good ols are still about. No promises, but as long as some of you are still logging in, I might come back wholesale one day. Being a frequent flier wouldn't be too bad.
I want to start checking in from time to time surely. One big-time-stopper here is that poking my head in doesn't usually warrant anything to say. Maybe I'll just start using this place as a filter.
Though a great regret of mine is never publishing a story game. Maybe that can be my triumphant return! I think this place might do me some good again. This isn't the Thread for catching up though. Ha, feeling nostalgic.
*Edit* Actually just reading through the lounge seems to have increased my level of stress. I don't have the time energy or stupidity to be what I once was on this site. That could actually be the perfect reason to come back.
Good bunch of us are still around, though we're pretty quiet, ha ha. It'd be awesome if you did return, but yeah, just a seasonal greeting is still great. :)
That would be awesome. :)
Published 40mins before midnight. now I must go collapse and sleep
I appologise now for how horrible and unedited 'Apocalypse yesterday is' I will unpublish it and hide in a corner out of shame later
You know, I might be able to complete an actual story by then.
So is it extended?
No Idea, I put so the in and I know Tan would have for sure but there hasn't been confirmation either way.
There was the comment above asking if we wanted an extension that if read quickly looked like it was the decision being made but it was just asking of opinions, it's possible some people read that and thought it was extended so didn't hit publish?
Yeah. No clue what's flying right now.
I say Madglee should go Joker for this contest and give everyone who published a story for the contest -1000 points and randomly ban people who said they were turning in a story and didn't.
Then laugh and give Tan a trophy without even reading his story.
And I didn't even end up publishing it. :-/ XD
I was hoping Madglee would post before Sabbath came in but whatevs. Have it on sneak peak mode.
Well I'll leave mine as published until we hear back somthing definitive from Madglee, I presume it's been extended but I will Unpublish when I hear
Sorry I was so remiss in posting you guys. Let's do the extension. It will be March 1. There weren't enough entries otherwise, as the minimum requirement was five.
I was really excited to read all these stories, so hopefully this extra time will result in a lot of cool stuff for us all to read.
Well now that I look back, I should've worked on my story during break...
Sounds good to me.
So we have until March 1 to submit a storygame for the contest? Alright! I thought I'd have to wait till the next contest to enter my game, but now I can 'slack off on homework to do writing' and finish the game! :)
That's the spirit!
Oui, c'est possible. De rien. Envoyez-moi un PM avec le nouveau titre.
My French has degraded over the years, so hopefully that makes sense.
looking forward reading a lot of stories next month.. well i am more of a reader than a writer but hopefully i am able to get the skills in writing a good game by reading these one..
havent had a reliable computer in several days. Finally able to fully get back on the site and get hyped about the competition!
Well I had the bones of my story submitted for the original deadline, for now I am just trying to find the time to flesh it out a bit, add the missing endings for the Path I have complete and do a lot of editing!
Very hard to find any time this month though...
My story is essentially ready for publishing, though the 'extra' other half of it is taking its time.
If there aren't 10 good stories, you guys are slackers.
The shame... and the 80s references... so, basically, "more shame" is what I'm saying here.
You love the 80's, slacker.
Eh, I was a 90s kid. I'll admit that the 80s had some good moments, though.
VHS tapes! I remember those things!
Edit: xD Just saw the admin bonus. Haha.
Silence! Where is your story? @Kiel_Farren
The stories have to be good?!?
THe original post never said they have to be good... I better scrap my WC porn fanfic and write something proper instead...
The story doesn't have to be good to enter, just to win.
Wow, just about ten days to go. Funniest thing is that it'll coincide with Infinite-Story's contest XD (hopefully we get more stories this time.)
One day I will look at that website, but I have too much at the moment to bother. unless they offer a cash prize for theirs... then I might have to defect to try and become rich!
I don't think I can finish! To be honest, I haven't been on in a while, so I haven't been writing. I'll try my best though!
I just want to see the games that come out!
If you don't finish in time, go on the net to find the worst furry porn stories you can then steal them, copy/paste it into here and submit it as your story.
They wont see the plagiarism through their bleeding eyes. Unless its Endmaster, then he will just think its crap
Unless the plagiarized furry porn has to do with the apocalypse, it won't even meet the rules.
It's furry ZOMBIE porn in a post apocalyptic WC world!
My favorite. Warm Cat-bodies.
Oh god. I only have forty pages done, and now a couple 'F's. X_x
Well, I'm out.
How many people have successfully finished or are near finishing their stories, after five months?
me it sucks though
oh it has to be a certain amount of words?
I'll have somthing in, I think Tan and Aman are finished or close too
I wish. Only started a month or so ago, and I got slammed with a ski trip and wisdom teeth pulling. :( Tan's done and I think Kiel is almost done.
Over a month and only 2 major interruptions? perfect, I expect a full story!
Maaan tell me about it. I got fucking arrested. -_- So not cool
I am hesitant to say that I'm not surprised
Five months is not long to finish a full story, especially with school/holidays/groundings/restricted internet access.
@TacocaT I'm so disappointed in you. I loved the ideas for both of your stories. That's too bad, man.
Well, I'm a bit of a perfectionist, and I've been trying to make a game of 7/8 quality for my first (and hopefully all) published games to get my reputation up. I doubt it'll happen anytime soon though.
Both? Would you please enlighten me on what you are referring to?
Midnight in which time zone btw?
Site time/EST afaik.
As already mentioned, I'm ready to publish.
the east time zone is were Oklahoma is right?
EST is Eastern coast time I think Soooo like 8pm my time. Probably...
I'll just put hit publish in the afternoon to be safe
Anyone can publish when they want. I'll make a thread for published stories so we can all read them.
Oklahoma is in Central Time Zone.
If you get the story in by some midnight, regardless of the supposed orbiting around the sun nonsense, or Galileo or any fool, really, then all is fine and good.
I've got a spiral notebook full of hand-written character notes and about the world, but couldn't really find a starting point for the story that was captivating. Between work and procrastination, I only have four pages about half finished. I doubt I'll meet the deadline.
Hahah, I bet there aren't even 5 submissions.
We aim for quality not quantity
But we need at least 5 good submissions according to the original rules. Hope there are some submissions soon.
We have a definite 2 (Forge and me), maybe Kiel... I think that's it, but I hope the people who are more silent about it have something done. :-/
Yea. I'm watching that too! I really hope there is 5 submitted, just for the sake of the guys's hard work who actually did submit.
Considering we had about thirty entries to begin with, I say those guys deserve to win.
We are allowed to submit up to our own time... Therefor West coasters have a couple more hours
I am greatly saddened that even with the reward, so few chose to write a story for a writing site. This is disappointing for sure.
I let my anxiety over letting others see my work stop me from writing at all for it. :(
... *string of swear words* Seriously?! No one else? We fell one entry short?
I am disappoint.
So am I. X_x I worked my ass off.
You guys should've applied the SHAME system, where if someone says they're going to submit a story and then fail to do so they suffer SHAME and here you'd at least be able to deduct points or apply some similar penalty too.
No one requires any shame to fail. They will all get used to it as time goes on, and the societal hammer continues to crush their skulls. And, evidently, one is not so much brainwashed, but able to view what a horrific hellscape this reality is, according to my uncle.
No, the threat of SHAME is supposed to motivate people to actually finish a story if they commit. That way you don't get 30 people running off at the mouth saying "Yeah I'll submit a story" and then most of them don't do it.
You instead get a smaller group of folks who are more committed to submitting something and the threat of SHAME if they don't does help keep them somewhat on track. Not to mention if they do fail, they can't get rid of the SHAME until they submit a story for a future contest.
What if we tried a 'tier' competition? Setting smaller goals throughout, first to write 10 pages in a story gets 2 points. Next to write 40 pages gets 10 points, First to etc etc etc until people actually finish there game. Just another thought. I would like to see more QUALITY writing on this site for sure.
*sigh* Clearly, the contest failed, but I was wondering: "If we do not receive at least 5 submissions, there will be no contest, but those who submitted shall surely reap some reward, should their entries be a result of effort."
What does that mean for the people that entered?
Depends on what they wrote. Taking a look.
God damnit >_<
Naw, I expected it, but that was prior to Negative sticking something in at the last moment, so I was hoping somebody else would do similarly XD
I figured it would happen, but it was sort of looking up when Negative popped up with his entry and like Tan, I thought that maybe someone else would submit something at the last moment.
I didn't want to say it, but I suspected. I'm not sure it was looking up if someone writes a story and puts "I just wrote this in a day, here you go."
I will be reading the submitted within the next 2-3 days. We are still dealing iwth a huge winter storm that came through, so my life outside the internet is still sketchy. I will let people know as much feedback as I can once I am done reading them.
Well that sucks for those who tried, even negative admitted theirs was a rush job last minute but they committed and followed through with something. Where are the other 26?
I didn't expect everyone to finish but I thought maybe 1/3
You had 5 months guys.... Come on.
Can the ones who tried still get judged?
You wrote a story for a writing site Feanor. If you are wanting sympathy, you wont find it here. lol But I already said I would give as much positive feedback as possible. But this is foremost a witing site, not a contribute just when a prize is offered site. We would all be good to remember that.
The tone of that last post came across a little harsh. my bad. lol But my point still stands, as a writing site we should be writing because we enjoy it. There used to be new stories popping up daily. I truly miss those days. Now its every few weeks sometimes.
I disagree, Killa, Fleshy has some valid points, and he's not trying to be condescending. I also agree with Feanor that is is ridiculous that more than four people couldn't submit something, but the rules were that if we didn't get at least five entries, there wouldn't be a contest.
I am still reading the four submissions, and we are working on what rewards (if any) will be given. Again, due to the paucity of submissions, there will not be contest rewards, but there might be some scraps hurled down.
"He seems to be under the impression that no one writes anything here anymore, which is just plain wrong."
I'm just assuming that he's assuming that WC doesn't count as writing, because it's only real 'writing' in the sense that you and your friends getting murdered by an axe-wielding snowman is 'freeze tag'.
I feel that it was the "post-apocalyptic" theme that may have been a problem. These kinds of stories are extremely overused, and may have been difficult to find original content to use in your game.
How so? I don't think any of the entries have zombies in them.
That's why no one used zombies. It is definitely not original for a post-apocalyptic story. So authors were pressured into finding more original content.
Unless you make it high fantasy and have strange things. Like the moon disappearing, and magic. Make up the details as you go along.
Feanor used zombies haha. I don't think the genre wasn't the problem, because PA is an extremely loose subject matter that could go in many directions. Killa seems more on target here that the incentive wasn't hard cash and overall our active community isn't filled with writers but rather readers anyhow.
Hahah, hard cash.
Evidently not, as the high fantasy one didn't work, either. I'll go with the lack of hard cash and more readers than writers on the site.
What year was the high fantasy one?
I knew I should have stuck with my bribe the members with $100 cash.
I haven't had a chance to get back on since earlier, but I see that maybe I upset feanor? If so, i apologize again. I am also looking forward to reading everyone's stories. and I am all for hurling scraps!
If it makes you feel better, Fleshy, this story was published only this morning.
I think he has been ignoring me. :(
Regardless, we are quite frequently getting new story-games, but most of the story-games published in the last month or so have been deleted after a week.
I don't want sympathy nor did I imply or say that I did so I am not sure what that part is aimed at. I have written a story before and don't only contribute when there is a competition. I hadn't seen the post where you said we would still get feedback yet which is why I asked that at the end.
I also specifically didn't mention prizes as I don't care about the prizes, I asked about judging as the main point of the competition was having the story properly judged by good writers and getting feedback so We could improve as writers in the future, or at least that is how I viewed it.
My entire point was this:
There was a competition planned and 30 people said they would enter. In the spirit of competition a few of us put in a lot of effort to make some thing good while others simply didn't bother. This detracts from the work the few put in to try and make the competition work. If you commit to something, and have an extremely generous time frame, you should follow through with it.
Yeah, those who didn't follow through should feel the SHAME. (Even Quiller.)
What's this SHAME in all caps that you and End have now mentioned? I must be unaware of some social phenomenon or pop culture reference.
Hahah, no idea how to implement that here, but good idea.
EDIT: I just went over there and it seems like forums are dead, somewhere around 2014. Am I missing some section?
The forums are still active...barely.
In fact someone just posted in the IWT 11- Contest thread linking to their contest story. Bringing the whopping total to four stories which is more than enough to judge since the minimum over there is three.
I don't think you're looking for sympathy, Feanor, and I think you and Fleshy sort of misinterpreted each other. Your story was enjoyable and I appreciate the work you put into it. It truly is a shame that four others couldn't submit anything, after five months. I am very disappointed, and I suspect the other judges are, too.
Back in the "old" days, there were a lot of submissions for contests. I just tried to bring back a contest for you guys, and you weren't in to it, evidently, and that's fine, but that also results in no contest.
What was the typical number of participants in past contests? I only was in the last one and the only other two contestants I remember being in it was JJJ and Seth.
The only contest I was in had a lot of entries, but I don't recall. I'm sure it's somewhere in the bowels of the forums. Then there was one with Tsmpaul and a bunch of others. I thought you'd been in that one.
EDIT: Well, I just scrolled back through the news and updates and there were a lot more contests than I even recall. I can't seem to find the results of the Fantasy Contest; maybe it didn't get enough entries, either.
I apologize profusely for not finishing my story. I have toh. *kneels and bows head*
*cuts TacocaT's head off* no forgiveness for you.
*Nothing happens.* My toh is towards Madglee for not doing as I said I would do.
Reference to certain odd customs in the series 'Wheel of Time'. Ji'e'toh. Ji being honor, and toh being shame/debt I think.
You have no toh with me, wetlander. @TacocaT
I thank you, Wise One. *stands and nods*
*cuts James's head off* none for you, either.
I am not sorry for not submitting a story. But I am sad I didn't.
Don't yell at me!
*cuts Boring's head off* NO FORGIVENESS!
Run, BFL, Run.
Shit, he already got you.
I didn't ask for forgiveness.
No apologies necessary. Obviously, everything is End's fault.
I like your heads just where they are. Lying there all plump and smiley.
Don't click this.
Hint: Heads will roll.
Roly poly fish heads
It's Fish Heads by Barnes & Barnes.
Once it's in your head, it get's stuck there.
Eat them up. YUM.
It was new and therefore the favorite of all the grammar school kids for my first few school years.
The thing from 1979 with Bill Paxton in it at 24 or so? Bizarre stuff.
I didn't even notice that. Haha.
Just wanted to let you know that despite the four entries, there is a lot of meat to read through, and I want to read through multiple playthroughs (if possible). I think Seth and Fleshy might be the same, uncertain. We are all reading, though, so be patient. Some nice stuff, guys.
yes, I am also reading through them a few times. I have commented on a few but will still be rereading them again.
I probably deserve a fair chunk of blame for the wait, sorry, haha. I'm really looking forward to seeing reviews from you three, though, so it's worth the wait for me.
I read through part of yours Kiel. I was impressed with the presentation for sure. Will reread it though. nate
Thanks! I know look isn't the most important thing here, but when I started making my game, I wanted to test out the new scripting I'd learned and enhance the general experience of playing through it as much as possible.
Wait Tan you said there were cameos in yours. Who's in it?
Only three that I remember. Puddlebuni got one because she had my banner on her profile for like, a month. Then Aman and Sethaniel got a cameo because they encouraged me to continue in the very beginning of the writing process. By that logic loads of people 'deserve' a cameo so sorry for those that I didn't put in yet XD
Hoping to add a whole bunch of cameos when I get the Zealot path done (probably everybody on the summary + whoever was in the contest) but as noted before, it's always awkward to stuff them in haha.
What? I'm in the game? XD
Werewolves section. You and I have a five second appearance (yours is the one with white hair)
Haha. That's awesome.
(right now it's "cherry crush," actually. ;p)
I've read all the stories. Haven't submitted a judgment yet, though.
You are fairly easy to find in my game, along with like 12 other CYS members who are less easy to find
Who are the others? *curious*
Any chance of a status update on the play-throughs? (Still worth the wait! I'm just eager to finish T.O.W.)
I finished your story, @Kiel_Farren. Epic monstrosity, and I mean that as a compliment. I need to read Tan's.
EDIT: On my end, a bunch of friends from my home town are visiting in LA and started working in a new place, so taking longer than normal. Not sure about the other judges.
Heeh, I suppose it's an appropriate description. It's not quite the size of its beast of a big brother / sister, but I've called it my little monster before. (Out of frustration with scripting and writer's block, not self-praise, lol.) I swear, one of these days, I'll learn how to write something short. >_>' Maybe.
Got'cha, have fun and good luck in the new place.
You want to write something short? I'll trade you, my max is about five pages before I lose interest XD
"I see there's some animosity on here" ... extremely broad statement when you only have one person to list as proof, even if you meant to say bitterness instead.
Not everyone on this site has even heard of IS, let alone actually cares about it, haha. :P I'm rather indifferent about it. If you like it, whoop-de-freaking-do, I'm happy for ya.
Look, there is nothing that IS offers that CYS doesn't. We have a thriving community and our story-game creation system is more streamlined and versatile than the system on IS. You can claim that such drawbacks make IS superior, like you have been doing, but they don't. Also, respect for IS might be greater if you didn't pop into threads to say "hey, your contest failed, but ours didn't, because we set our standards lower".
Can't really say our community is 'thriving'. Half our traffic is Warrior Cats, after all hahaha.
Feh, don't do that, James. I really doubt that DEP was trying to insult us with that. Seemed to me like a totally benign statement :P
Heck, he didn't even say IS is superior, he just stated that he has read and liked more IS stories (which makes sense because that is where he typically spends his internet-time for reading and the like. It's like how we typically think CYS games are better than nearly all Twine games.)
By jove my good fellow, I do believe there is a fox wedged in your rectal area!
nah, don't worry, we don't hate Infinite Story. Our hatred is pretty much fully directed at Twine at the moment.
Your entire post does nothing but demonstrate the superiority of CYS.
@Malkalack , can you come give DEP the "three legged puke dog" speech?
"You're almost as pathetic as the three legged dog I hopping along while I was on a walk today, covered in puke. I'm sorry your owner was desperate enough to have sex with you. Keep hopping, buddy."
At least, that's how I think it went. You get the gist of it.
It isn't much. I'm not sure why James tagged me, tbh.
FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKING FAGGOT! YOUR AVATAR LOOKS LIKE A CHEEKY LITTLE RODENT. YOUR MOM'S A SLUT.
I dunno, I think your stated difference between the two sites is a bit shortsighted. While some of the games here have 'gimmicks', they don't necessarily lose out on the 'story' aspect in any way.
Yeah, of course. I hope it goes without saying that I'm not attacking IS stories at all. I realize that you aren't 'dissing' us or anything hahaha.
I'd merely argue that the game and the story come single-handedly when they're done right. The game-aspects (such as items) usually add to the story rather than focus it into a game (aside from the several puzzle games we have, but those are specifically labeled). As such, most storygames around here are story first and foremost, with the game aspect only adding to that. While you can say that CYS is more 'game-oriented' than IS, I still think that that isn't a good way to put it because the focus on the story is still there, undivided by some features (referring to the storygames that aren't quizzes, puzzles or the like). Probably didn't explain it well but oh well haha.
I think IS is cool and have no problem with it. Yep, that's the main key, the crowd's demographics. CYOA was getting sparse there for a while but picked back up and now is thriving in the last few years. Last time I was at IS before a few weeks back was years ago, and it was huge.
So did Tan win?
Huh? Why do you ask?
*Confused* According to his point record, Madglee hasn't rated Undead Persona yet. It's also the only one he hasn't left a comment on at this point, so ... I'm pretty sure the judging isn't over. I don't know which one the judges favor atm. (xD ... I do know which story has the highest over all rating, though.)
No particular reason, just thought it had been awhile since an update and I figured the judges might have read all the stories by now.
I am not reading any of the above as it will color my decisions. You realize, of course, that we need all three judges. I am reading Tan's now. There have been no decisions made.
I apologize this has taken so long; you guys should hear about everyone falling to their fiery doom into the bowels of Shub-Niggurath.
Sethaniel and I have definitely read all the stories. Waiting to hear from Fleshy. I know my #1-#4 and we will be consolidating our positions so we can determine the winners soon.
Good to know. :) Looks like Fleshy only has one left to finish, (though he may go back and re-read for all I know,) so I'm guessing we'll have a verdict sometime soon.
(Odd, Seth's point history says he hasn't read mine ... or, hasn't rated, anyway...)