About a month back there was a discussion on this. Well I'd like to say what I think about it, but on a thread that actually gets noticed because it is recent.
First off, I would like to say that I was offended enough by the religion discussion I mentioned above. I am a Christian and I cannot blame you for denouncing my religion, but at the same time I want to hear what you all have to say about religion.
I am strongly opposed to the KKK. I'm not an expert on it, but to respond to what was mentioned on that forum, people do things in the name of gods or causes that the religion does not believe in. Almost all Muslims would disagree with the 9/11 attacks. Also, I'm female and the Bible is really a changing word. This may sound like nonsense for those of you atheists out there, but in no way can I say that I'm anywhere near being perfect. That's why I'm offended when people say that Christianity is discriminated in terms of genders.
And...Christianity actually is, in my opinion, kind of different religions, although some are more "mainstream" than others.
I like to find things out for myself. There are quite a few reasons why I am a Christian: 1) Yes, I have seen evidence of it. In my brain, logically there kind of has to be a god or gods out there. 2) And if there has to be a god, why not Christianity? If, as some people believe, nothing happens after death, then why not believe in something? If something actually does happen after death and I'll be judged to go to heaven or hell, it kind of doesn't harm to be in heaven.
Still...I want to hear what people have to say on this.
I'm a christian and i agree with you, but people have to understand when there talkng about christanity there also talking about Judaism. Where just two sides of the same coin where only christan because we believed in the teaching of Jesus Christ. I really stay away from dicussion liuke this because my anger would get the best of me.
What? Are you fucking kidding me? Do you honestly know nothing about the jewish religion?
I'd begin making my massive argument, but I think that Aman, being a jewish person himself, should have this task.
I'll say that your confusion likely stems from the fact that judaism and christianism are both Abrahamic religions, and there ARE similarities, but I assure you, they are not the same religion.
Oh...thanks for clearing it up Drak and no need for swears here.
We just said this last thread. (About how you are wrong about Christianity and Judaism being the same)
Ummmm, what are you talking about? I was the one who started that thread, and I almost immediately responded with what could probably amount to a 1-2 page argument to everyone who attempted to discredit another religion in the favor of the other religion, and I was joined by a good deal of other forum members. It was the least offensive thread to discuss religion ever.
And keep in mind i'm an atheist, and I actually do feel distaste for most religions, but I have not offended anyone over religious differences in my life.
I basically oppose all religion. It's only benefit is perhaps morality, but do you really need a magical being in the sky to tell you murder and rape are not conducive to a functioning society?
Let's take a look at the harm it has done. Thirty Years' War: Protestants vs Catholics (3-11 million casualties). French Wars of Religion: Protestants vs Catholics (2-4 million deaths). Nigerian Civil War: Islam vs Christianity (1-3 million deaths). Second Sudanese Civil War: Islam vs Christianity (1-2M dead). The Crusades: Islam vs Christianity (1-3M dead).
Religion tends to be the last to support equality. The KKK is a Christian organization wanting to base rights on skin color. Islam and Christianity don't support rights for homosexual couples. Christianity and Islam discriminate and suppress women.
A few examples of what the Christian bible has to say about women:
1 Corinthians 14:34-36 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
1 Timothy 2:11-15 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.
Christians throw such fight over evolution that many schools in the United States just skim the subject or actually teach it as an equally plausible 'theory' as intelligent design. My mind is blown by this. We have proof of evolution! What do you call dogs? Were there dogs on Noah's boat of incest? Even if anyone didn't believe dogs evolved from wolves, Dmitri Belyaev did us a favor by domesticating foxes starting in 1959 just to prove it all over again. Grey Wolves 'evolved' (I know selective breeding was responsible but it's the same process) into toy poodles in only 30-40 thousand years, and there has been life on earth for 3,500,000,000 years.
Christianity believes the earth is much younger, I've heard surprisingly intelligent people argue that it is only 6,000 years old. A long estimate in Christianity is 15,000 years. Yes. Many people really believe the planet Earth was created in 6 days by a magical man 6,000 years ago. Suppression of science and technological advancement is another reason I feel humanity would be better off without religion.
I normally don't call myself an atheist because of the negative connotation. I've actually had people ask if that means I am a Satanist. Er.. no... I feel that I arrived at this belief fairly, having read and contemplated the Christian bible in its entirety and compared its teaching to what I know of our planet scientifically, from biology to physics. I have looked for proof or even reasonable suggestion of the existence of a higher being and have found none.
(hehe, I'm in a novel writing mood today. Stop posting such interesting topics in the forums so I can get back to work on my actual story!)
Don't know of you'd say that for all religions though. I mean, it's a rather big statement when you are mostly attacking Christianity and Islam.
Most atheists are woefully uninformed about other religions lol.
I certainly did not intend to attack Christianity/Islam/Judaism. As I pointed out, they are the religions I am most familiar with and thus the only ones I can confidently say I find useless in society. If there are any Buddists or Hindus who wish to explain their thoughts on the subject, I would be more than happy to listen and make a decision on those as well. As far as attacking, I am merely pointing out how that I arrived at the decision that there is no god and that the belief there of is more harmful than helpful. I feel the same way when discussing any other sociological issue like welfare, drug abuse, censorship, environment, or poverty. I feel it is best to consider all sides to the issue before coming to a conclusion. Religion is a bit more touchy, but an opinion is an opinion.
Of course not, I meant nothing about that. I was just pointing out that the blanket statement 'I basically oppose all religions' isnt the right statement when you know mostly only about 2 religions. Some religions are harmful, but opposing ALL religions is too big of a statement.
War is a part of human history, people enjoy killing each other, taking each other's stuff and conquering. the religious wars you named (and i'm surprised you didn't mention the inquisition, which enjoyed frequent heretic burnings) would likely have happened over other differences in beliefs or desire for territory regardless of the existence of religion. In many cases it was just one country wanting another's territory (happens all the time for non-religious purposes) or someone wanting more rights or freedom (protestant vs catholics, too many examples that do not involve religion for me to name).
Disagreements in opinions result in war because humans are stupid, petty, intolerant creatures, the fact that a few of these were caused by religion doesn't mean that religion is the worst possible thing to come to mankind- it just proves that mankind is intolerant of other people.
Religion was merely man's excuse to be brutal and violent, not the cause.
As for the KKK:
You have to realize that Christianity contains, what, a billion? More followers? You take a billion people and examine each and every one of them, you'll find a hell of a lot of fucking assholes. The KKK are a white supremacy group that tries and hangs on to religion in order to draw in more supporters, but that doesn't mean they are acting with the approval of religion in itself. Just because something is done in the name of god, does not mean that the god in question or his followers would approve of it (If you have a stalker who is obsessed with you, and he cuts off animal genitalia and mails them to you in admiration, it doesn't mean you like it, pretty much the same thing with the KKK). (I think that if there is a god, he would be shaking his head at all of us, and then just annihilate the world out of exasperation and start over)
The KKK is an extremely small percentage of the total christian population, and it was formed in a country in a time that was noted for it's extreme racism. it's a minority, and not a well liked one, it is not an accurate depiction of most of them.
As for women, keep in mind that religion was formed in a time where men dominated women (and no, not in the hot way), and sexism was rampant, it would naturally influence the religious beliefs of the time. Now, you might argue that religion is something that should have changed with time to fit new cultural beliefs and tolerance, but I believe that would defeat the purpose of the religion in the first place.
Religion cannot be blamed for the flaws it presents, that's just how shit was back then. People made the religion agree with the typical cultural beliefs in order to draw in more followers.
"...but that doesn't mean they are acting with the approval of religion in itself."
And may I point out Christianity is more than one religion?
It's more than one sect, I believe, but the definition of "God" to Christians is similar enough so that Orthodox, Catholic, Lutheran, etc. get lumped up together.
You forgot Baptist and Protestant. And yeah theyre similiar but they arent the same.
And the Mormons. lol
The parts that people complain/disagree about tend to remain the same in most of them.
Christianity actually is just one 'religion', it just has more than one denomination (Catholic, Protestant, Lutheran, etc). As far as saying those wars cannot be blamed on religion.. yes humans probably would have gone to war with each other anyway. But that's like saying the reason you're not a vegetarian is that someone else will eat the hamburger. It's just a way of justifying things. Maybe we would have gone to war, but not that war. And maybe if humanity had one less thing to disagree on, there would be less war.
Man you guys are picking my brain today. I'm an atheist because I don't want to deal with religion! I'm not posting any further on the topic for that reason, but it was lovely debating theology with all of you and I applaud all of your wonderful points and counter-arguements.
Also, Christianity IS one religion. There are different sects (Lutherian, Protestant, Catholic), but it IS one religion. There is no such thing as "Feeling" that there's more than one religion in what is ONE religion.
Also, if you wanted to hear what we had to say about religion, you could have easily read through the entire last thread. I see absolutely no point to this thread, unless you are trying to state your case for your own religion and try to raise other's opinions of it.
To answer you, I read through the entire last thread and that is exactly my point in making this one. I try not to post on threads that are from long ago because nobody takes notice of them.
Not true, we've had numerous discussions on necroed threads that are 4-5 years old.
Now, almost everybody who would be willing to share their opinion of religion has already posted in the other thread, so why do it here?
Will you be satisfied if I move everything to your thread. I get why you are offended.
I'm offended that you thought we were being offensive. We had a reasonable discussion about religion and your above post makes it seem as if we spend 69 posts comparing christianity to the results of week old sewage. This is a completely unwaranted reaction and I frankly cannot understand your reasoning behind it.
I couldn't care less that you've made a new thread (Though it seems strange that you would bother to do so), but your false accusations are something I won't accept.
In that case then I'm sorry if I offended you, but I am a very biased person.
. . . have you ever seen the Vatican officials who laugh at American Christians? It's rather amusing.
First why in the hell did you bring this back up? You turn forums into war zones.
Second: though I was baptized as a Christian and attend church because of my family in Christmas and Easter for their sake. I rarely classify myself as atheist I do get called names for this I prefer what Gandhi said about Christian. "I like your Christ, but I do not like Christians. You are so unlike your Christ."
Not many of your so called mainstream religions are particularly accepting this is based of my elementary knowledge of them (for example I have no idea Jewish views on events.)
for the record one of the best policies is that to respect any religion on their views. Don't comment on them and don't change your's.
I don't have a biased view on these and is my honest opinion at the moment.
I like to keep my mind open! I have no way of knowing for sure what is there or what isn't. Perhaps ALL religions exist in a sense, or maybe none do. I personally prefer the former of those two thoughts. I will find out at the end of my life, I suppose--if anything is there. I suppose I am agnostic, although some people claim that agnosticism is ONLY based off of whether or not the Christian God is real, but I think it applies to all belief systems.