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This thread might get shot down quick, but just curious to see where everyone stands or feels about the issue.  I've kept up with the story from the start and have read articles from different news outlets.  Amazing how many stories get thrown around when a 'controversial' story pops up.  Interested to see how the case unfolds as it is closing in a few days.

Even if it was a justified shooting, which I doubt from the eye-witnesses testimony, there was no justification for shooting him seven times.  It shows that the cop was enraged and out of control.

A different point of view on this one.  From what I've gathered, it was 6 confirmed shots based on the several autopsies performed.  If you have a cite for the 7, let me know because it is the first time I've heard that.

As far as multiple shots, I do not believe that constitutes 'enraged' and 'out of control'.  This is my theory, and of course I do not know for fact because only Darren Wilson knows the motive which might be truthfully revealed in the case or might not.  Police Officers, much like Uniformed Service Members, are taught to shoot to kill.  No capable and proved shooting instructor will ever tell you to maim or go for the legs in any scenario.  There's actually a widely used protocol called "Use of Force Continuum" that I will post:

There were six confirmed shots, but the witnesses claim that there were as many as ten (so I'll go with the six confirmed.)  Even that is overkill against an unarmed assailant who, shown by the autopsy images, wasn't facing the cop when the majority of the shots were fired.

Good point.  That's why I would like to see more evidence come out.  If there were 10 other shots, where did those rounds end up?  That would help prove that he did fire at Brown when he had his back turned.  Based on the autopsy report, all the shots were to the front.

I wouldn't value that information too highly. All that is likely to mean is that he may have tried to run away or instinctively turned to protect himself.

While I'm inclined to believe the cop was in the right, I also don't trust cops at all (I don't trust anyone with more power than me by default) so it's entirely possible the cop was in the wrong. That being said I think the only reason people actually care about this that much is because it was white on black violence.

We may never know who was in the right.  I still believe that until police officers have to abide by the same laws as the rest of us, we all suffer.

Continued....

I believe he fired 6 shots because that's what it took to eliminate the threat.  That's my argument against the 'enraged' or 'out of control' factor.  Once again clarifying that, I was not there and cannot tell you what was going through Darren Wilson's mind.

Blowing up my own thread here, but I thought this article had some useful info on the general facts of the case.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/13/us/ferguson-missouri-town-under-siege-after-police-shooting.html

Hmm...What do you think an appropriate level of force is for an unarmed jaywalker? 

"Mr. Brown runs away, and Officer Wilson gets out of his car and pursues him on foot, continuing to fire. Autopsies show that Mr. Brown had been shot at least six times." — seems out of control to me.

The first 2 shots happened from inside the vehicle.  My question would be, did Brown assault Wilson first?

Taking your question without any 'what if' scenario involved, verbal to soft hand is the farthest I'd go.

Another uncertainty in this case is if Wilson fired the remaining shots while Brown was running away.  The other 4 shots are shown hitting Brown in the front with no shots in the back.  Wilson had the obligation as a LEO to go in pursuit of Brown.  A regular citizen would have to stand down and would be smart to in the same scenario.

As a regular citizen, do you mean Caucasian?  Because I live in a rural area not too far from where this happened, and I know how badge-heavy the cops are toward whites.  I wouldn't really have any idea what might go through the mind of an African-American that was in the same situation.

I was just saying in scenario where a citizen (not Law Enforcement) was defending himself with a weapon, he could not give chase.  The law works against a citizen when he begins to chase an assailant. 

It didn't seem to work that way in the case of George Zimmerman.  I feel that race is the most important factor on the outcome of a trial.  Cops are supposed to be citizens, but in this area they act as if they are above the law.

A huge fail here is lack of police vehicle cameras.  In my city, all patrol cars have rear and front cameras.  The car also has an audio system to record sound.  That would have been excellent evidence here, too bad.

It's also an excellent example where Police Body Cameras would be beneficial.  Then what the police actually saw could be evaluated.

Yeah, I don't get why those have not already been mass produced/used for LE all over the country.  They range from $80-$150 tops.  If I was an officer, I'd foot the bill on my own. 

I donate to the Sheriff's Association, and to many specific police causes.  If they were to call me about equipping officers with PBCs, I would gladly make a donation.

Man, I was really hoping more people would comment on this.  I'd like to hear varying views.  This is a huge case!!

Relating back to race.  How the hell did the jury end up looking like this with the population statistics for the area?

"The grand jury is made up of nine whites and three blacks"

I really hope the jury can look at the case objectively.

That's an odd thing to say. Do you think they would look at the case more objectively if there were more blacks on the jury?

I would want a 50/50 split just for everyone else's sake.  The media has made the case a huge 'race' issue.  Citing that of the 53 police officers in that area, only 3 are African American.  I personally, don't care who is on the jury.  I'm just saying that, if Darren Wilson does not get indicted, I'm sure people will start pointing fingers at the majority 'white' members even though that shouldn't be an issue either way.

Meh, if he doesn't get in trouble it won't matter even if the jury is entirely composed of blacks, there will still be riots. People are mad, they don't want "justice" unless it's the justice they want.

I think you can't ignore it.  I mean, look at Cpt Ron Johnson of Highway Patrol.  They appointed him to take command of Ferguson Police.  Why?  Well for one, I think he could get the job done.  But Also, he happens to be black.  It's almost as if they appointed him to appease the citizens.  I don't know.

"Almost"

Haha, looks like you're starting to understand politics.

Said lightly.  I deff believe that's the reason he was appointed.

Anyways, I would like to see one thing happen at the end of this case that I think would be helpful to everyone.  Regardless of the outcome, Obama should fly his personal jet over to the people and give a speech.  Store owners are scared and already boarding up their places for the riot to come.

He needs to address the people and say enough is enough.  No more rioting, looting, stealing, the case is over.  Make peace and move forward.

One thing that got to me about the Zimmerman case, was Obama's instant reply of: "If I had a son, He'd look like Trayvon".

How did that help anyone.

Why would it be "to appease the citizens" because he's black? Maybe an African-American person happens to be more qualified than a white. Has that occurred to you? Hmmm? 

That's why I started my statement off with "For one, I think he can get the job done."  

I'm not in any way doubting him or saying I know his credentials.  I was just saying their could be that connection there for why they chose him.  Just a thought.

A little off topic, but I've never been called upon to be a juror, and yet my business partner has been notified three times in the last fifteen years.

I haven't either.  I'd like the experience of being on jury one day though.

I can't say that serving on a jury would help out my business, I could lose customers if they disagreed with the outcome of a case in which I served.

Edit:  After all, my views on politics and religion have lost me customers.

Are you just really outspoken or does your work put you in a position that exposes your views more often?  Just curious.

That's a really good question.  I have a machine shop, and mostly do repair work.  My customers are the ones that broach the subject (I'd much rather just do the work), but I try to point out the flaws in their logic and they just can't accept it.  I'm not a very argumentative person, but I cannot be swayed to someone else's views unless they can show where I am in the wrong.

That's cool man.  Nothing worse than the guy/girl who just nods there head at stuff to 'keep the peace'.  Shouldn't back down from your beliefs or feel like your opinion should be suppressed if it doesn't align with the majority.  Props to you, sir.

I try to keep it to myself, but I can only take so much before I have no choice but to weigh in. 

Why not just agree with them so they shut up and pay you?

That thought never occurred to me!  xD

Actually, though, if they don't pay for their parts, they don't get to take them.  I run a No Credit business.

How did you miss all those posts about his shop?

Not for many, many years...

Had the misfortune of being called 4 times.

1st time, I never got called into an actual court room and they ended up sending people home early due to canceling most of the trials.

2nd time, I got called into the courtroom, but I wasn't one of the people that got picked and none of the lawyers had any objections for any of the people who got called to the actual jury box, so the rest of us got sent home.

3rd time was the closest I came to actually getting picked since I was actually called to the jury box, but happily the defense lawyer dismissed me so I got to go home. Probably came close to getting thrown in jail by the judge for contempt of court, but that's another story. Lol.

4th time (and hopefully final time) the cases that were scheduled got settled by the judge without the need for a jury so we all got sent home.

"Probably came close to getting thrown in jail by the judge for contempt of court, but that's another story. Lol."

Feel like telling that story?

2nd that, I'd love to hear it!

Thirded!

Fourth'd? Fourthed? Frothed? I DON'T FUCKING KNOW. 

Sadly, it's really not as exciting as it sounds. (No throwing a chair at the judge or anything like that)

Basically the judge wanted me to answer her questions like how everyone else was answering them, with this chipper attitude that "Yes, I'm very glad to be here this very fine day!"

When I didn't do that and basically told her that I didn't really want to be there, her tone got hostile though I continued to answer her questions. The funny thing is after she asked me questions, she continued being hostile to the other jurors to the point of bullying them into answering her questions the way she wanted to hear them.

After I got dismissed with some of other jurors, a couple of them did say to me, "Man, I'm surprised you didn't get thrown in jail for contempt of court!"

I'm more surprised you didn't become a judge.

Not the most exciting, but it beats what I will probably be forced to do, which is to claim hardship.
"I can't close down my business, how am I supposed to eat!?!"

Really I'm not even sure why they needed a jury for that one since it really sounded like an open and shut case. While I wasn't there for the whole trial of course, I did get a brief summary before they started questioning us.

The guy was arrested for shooting a cop at some sort of outdoor function and there were tons of civilian witnesses along with witnesses from various police departments that were going to take the stand. Apparently this was literally some sort of international incident, because they were also going to be bringing in Canadian officers that had witnessed the shooting as well.

The dude in question even looked pretty resigned to the inevitable outcome of him going to prison.

Hmm.

I thought the story would be a lot more interesting...

Daylight shone through the high windows in the Alabama State Courthouse. Various important-looking people milled around, while  a stoic and judicious looking judge sat high atop its podium, surveying the courtroom. The Crown Prosecutor, a fat, pompous pig of a man sat with a cigar hanging out of his mouth, one hand upon his package. The defense council sat across him, on the other end of the flat, horizontal table. The woman was ugly to say the least, with a face that repels meteors from planet Earth. 

"What about this EndMaster fellow?" The prosecutor asked, blissful in his ignorance.

"E-e-enMaster?" The defense lawyer sputtered. She didn't know him personally, but if the legends were even half-true, she knew she should be balking in terror. 

"We do not speak of such things." The judge corrected in its voice that was neither male nor female. 

"Yes! Why not EndMaster?" He rumbled on like the dumb piece of shit he was. The judge let out a heavy sigh, but read the dreaded name "EndMaster" from a piece of paper. 

A hooded figure, that stood at about eight feet approached the center of the packed courtroom. "What?" Came the laconic, drawling voice. The very sound of his voice sent shivers down everyone's spine. 

"You've been selected for jury duty; do you have any valid reasons as to why you cannot perform?" 

"Impotent mortals..." EndMaster, dreaded God of CYS muttered. He threw off his cloak, and a collective scream filled the courtroom. What he showed them would drive any man mad, so this retelling has spared you it. The smell of searing retinas filled the courtroom, as everyone's minds began to silently beg them to forget. 

The God of Death left the courtroom with a smile that day, leaving behind only bumbling incompetents in his wake... 
 

I was just doing the easy thing and imagining a guy in a black cloak just talking down to the judge as a 'pathetic human!' and boredly pulling all the disgusting pranks that gods of death and darkness do when they're annoyed, like making a cartoon penis drawn in dripping blood appear on the wall above the judge's head, causing horrific apparitions to scare the shit out of spectators, make hanging corpses appear suspended from the rafters, or causing the witnesses to projectile vomit their vital organs all over the attourney.

Not to raise this thread from the dead, but the Governor of Missouri has declared state of emergency.  I think they know what the outcome is going to be.

Why do people destroy their own towns and communities.  If they are going to riot, why not go somewhere where it might cause change.

...from a guy like you, I think most of us know the answer to that.

What do you mean by from a guy like you?

A guy of your age and intellect?  I thought you already knew the answer, but End already stated the reason quite clearly.  :P

I thought you might have been implying something that I might not have been aware of.  : )

Yeah, I've been fucking up my words lately.  :P

Even when someone expresses something eloquently, there will always be a chance of misinterpretation.  The written word can never express with the same elegance as the spoken word combined with body language.

I'd rather not use body language.

XD  That depends on what you think of as body language.  Someday, I hope that words can relate, without a doubt, the authors true intent.

Because they're a bunch of ignorant short sighted idiots with poor impulse control.

Doesn't matter that they have to live there the next day, they're angry NOW and that guy running his own general store is "richer" than they are (despite still living in the same neighborhood) so he's an easy target to get free stuff from and claim it's striking back at "The Man."

Also in such environments you're going to have people (mostly criminals) that don't give a shit one way or another about it and just see it as an excuse to take advantage of the chaos. Get enough people like that and then mob mentality just takes over everything.

After three hundred years of slavery, and over a hundred more of Jim Crow (which still goes on in the south), a constant state of prejudice and Racial Profiling.  If they did attempt to lash out against their oppressors, they would be slaughtered even today.  The way they think is almost genetic.  Passed down from one generation to the next, all the horrors that their forefathers had to endure.

Why do you think the Israeli motto is Never Again.  After over two thousand years of the same type of mistreatment that climaxed with that animal in Germany.

It's easy to find fault or second guess someone else's actions.  Until the chips are down, you never know how you'd truly react in the same situation.

I have a friend who's 81 years old.  He is half German.  His grandparents had over a hundred slaves.  He says that he feels that a shower will not penetrate deeply enough to cleanse the evil from his genetics, he's stuck with them.  He says "white people have a deep-seated fear of not being superior.  This shows a genetic inferiority complex."  I just hope that I don't have it.

Edit:  I'm not meaning to sound argumentative, just stating where I feel the problem may lie.

Oh boy, you're one of those white apologists, lol.

Me, apologize?  That's a laugh.  Just because I understand both sides, doesn't mean that I agree with either.

To call Hitler an animal is an insult to non-human animals.

Didn't mean to ruffle your fur.  xD

Eh, I mean, Hitler did outlaw vivisections and was planning for all of Germany to one day adopt a vegetarian diet, but his mustache was fucking hideous.That, and he killed a bunch of people, or something.

Thanks to him, no one can wear an Ollie mustache along with a chili-bowl haircut out in public.

The first time I saw Charlie Chaplin, I thought he was Hitler with a cane and funny hat.

I know, the toothbrush moustache hasn't got the neutral effect it used to have pre 1930s.

I've heard the reason he had it like this was because of Kaiser Wilhelm IIs clusterfck decisions that led up to and including WW1. Originally everyone had standard, trimmed moustaches, but after WW1 many shaved their tashes off or just trimmed them down. Hitler trimmed his down and kept it, so the story goes anyways...

No, that was the JDL's motto. You know, that terrorist group that barely did anything >_>

Either way, doesn't that contradict your statement? Because that would mean that we changed how our 'blood' made us think.

Logic contradicts that. Don't need any other proof, ha ha. 

Moskim.

While I'm not an advocate of violence, I think (and so did many nations) that the JDL was justified.  Why else did the world look the other way for decades.  When they started attacking people for merely invoking their freedom of speech, however, they had crossed a line.  While I'm not saying that I wouldn't like to have my way with certain people and religious zealots, I do understand the necessity of a free-thinking society.  It's hard to put into words what injustice is, but I know it when I see it — from the schoolyard bully to the trampling of ideologies and entire races.

You baffle me.

Sorry.  I didn't mean to lump everyone together.  The vast majority of people are pacifists.  They take what they are dealt and try not to make waves.  I don't believe in this view myself, and would never stand idly by while someone else is forced to suffer.  I think that it is my duty to oppose physical, mental and emotional brutality in any form.

I didn't bring them up, but...yeah.  :P

Fool, the JDL barely exists anymore. The website wasn't made by them. :P XD

Isn't that the group you always joke about Aman belonging to?

Hah, yeah. Mostly because it's a 'terrorist' nation that the FBI still labels as active and dangerous when they haven't done anything in the US for several decades, and whatever they did was apparently foiled except for one time that they killed 7 people. 'Big-time' terrorists indeed.

Now, the Elders on the other hand...

(It's one of those jokes that aren't really funny because you have to explain the historical background in order for almost everybody else to get it)

("Wasn't being entirely serious"? You being half-serious about that is sad.)

I was hoping my emoticons (you know, the things that are supposed to express emotion) would mirror the non-seriousness back :P

I mean, improper use of punctuation pisses me off, but I wasn't being serious in implying that the only problem I have with the promotion of a terrorist organization (even a second class one that could possibly replace Team Rocket as the underachievement nexus of criminal organizations) is their use of the English language. And, while emoticons do express emotions, the emotions they were expressing then were rather ambiguous.

I'd rather not discuss this any further with you, and to be honest, I need to be writing a paper on the Six Sigma process.

Yep didn't you hear what happened to the two Shiite men that killed some rabbis in Israeli. Not only were they killed but then Israeli went to where there families livid and demolished the buildings as well and they said it was only the beginning. 

I've read several several articles that clearly state that the Israelli government is demolishing the homes. Check your facts first, Cool. Of course it's not 'the end' of that either, because there are still Arabs that are assaulting Jews in Israel, and the government wants to be more proactive in stopping it.

Unless you meant 'Israel' and not 'Israeli' both times. But I can't really tell. Either way, you're downplaying what the two Arabs did :P

I did mean Israel.

It wasn't just 'some rabbis' in israel, it was 4 people, and 15 people (or so) injured. 

I didn't know the numbers someone just mentioned it to me. Thank you for saying the ammount.

If they've any sense they'll make the announcement in the middle of this snowstorm, that way the 'two-legged troublemakers' will be more subdued in the cold conditions. ;)

What pisses me off, is the negative reaction to National Guardsmen being deployed in Ferguson, Mo.  I'm in the Guard as well but have not been deployed overseas yet.  During Operation Iraqi Freedom, a lot of National Guardsmen were deployed overseas fighting for this Country.  I can't imagine the hurt they must feel when people look at them like the enemy.  They are being deployed for "visibility and deterrence".  They are not there to just open fire in the middle of the streets on civilians for no reason. jeez.

Visibility and deterrence.

To the protestors : containment, control, interference.

Rioters don't exactly like opposition and control.  It's kinda the reason why they're rioting in the first place : to cause upset  as a way to portray how they feel.

And because it prevents looters and idiots to do whatever they want to "feel alive".   Kinda glad that the US is very lenient in terms of not going to straight out kill people  "rabble" in a protest like other nations over one case that shouldn't have controversy because of color.  :P

I agree.  But until and unless they are also used to prevent injustices (instead of to quell an outburst of frustration) to the same people, they will also have to contend with that reaction.  I can only think of one time in history when they were used to prevent an injustice on our soil, but they are more frequently used to perpetuate the very same — only in a slightly different form.

Edit:  To paraphrase Dr. Phil, It takes a thousand attaboys to erase one 'you will always be second class.'

"I can only think of one time in history when they were used to prevent an injustice on our soil."

I assume you are referring to Central High.

Yes.  Central High was the most publicized, but it was happening all across the south.

XD  Yeah.  When there are SO many better reasons.

...Asshole.

Regardless, there is also the fact that we have one of the highest divorce rates and one of the highest teen pregnancies rates in the country. Oh, and 60% of teenagers here are a bunch of sick fucks who like burying cats neck deep in dirt and running over their heads with a lawn mower.

You thought I was referring to Arkansas?  I was referring to the whole country...