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The Eugenics Wars

7 days ago

Well I got there late, but someone in the CYS Discord got banned for annoying Mizal on this topic. (Try to guess who!)

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/12/15-worrying-things-about-crispr-babies-scandal/577234/

In any case, everyone can feel free to rant about the pros and cons of genetically engineered humans here.

The Eugenics Wars

7 days ago

Okay well let's start with the pros, we could cure aspies, retards, cripples and the LGBT folks.

Of course the cons are, we wouldn't have any of the above around to make jokes about anymore.

Yep it's a dilemma already.

The Eugenics Wars

7 days ago
Finally a humane solution for the Jew problem.

The Eugenics Wars

7 days ago

Although this is somehow an idea people struggle to comprehend, it's good to try genetically enhance babies to not suffer from the same problems that normal humans deal with. The CRISPR program has a lot of issues that need to be dealt with, and this needs to be something with very heavy oversight, though.

To compliment something Coins talked about, this should definitely be done in tandem with free healthcare to avoid the inevitable problem of the rich being able to have genetically superior children to the poor. This should be something to deal with severe cases of risk-prone babies up until the point where it can be done at least relatively universally.

The Eugenics Wars

7 days ago
Can't talk about eugenics without mentioning 1997's Gattaca.

Being able to enhance vision (seeing as we're becoming a race of terrestrial Falmer) and prevent genetic diseases would be a pretty great thing for humanity.

Of course we couldn't let someone like End in charge of the program. He'd create an army of super-mutants and genetically enhanced dwarfs.

The Eugenics Wars

7 days ago
Gattaca was something else. It also really pointed out a lot about the possible side effects of such a program...

The Eugenics Wars

7 days ago
He'd create an army of super-mutants and genetically enhanced dwarfs.

I'm imagining a whole world based on the movie Twins. I think we'd all enjoy seeing that happen.

The Eugenics Wars

7 days ago

Well, the dwarf in that was kind of just the garbage heap of leftovers, not so much genetically-enhanced. 

The Eugenics Wars

6 days ago

Gattaca was an interesting movie, but I still thought the scene near the end of the movie when whats-his-name challenges his genetically superior brother to a swimming race and the brother starts drowning was kind of dumb. The brother only starts drowning as proof for some trite argument being made by the screen writer that gene tailoring doesn't make the better person...or some trite Hollywood message movie crap. They already had the thing about Jude Law's genetically engineered character in the wheelchair.  The swimming scene just made the movie idiotic. Well, that and the end when they all go to Saturn's moon of Titan while wearing three-piece-suits!

The Eugenics Wars

6 days ago
I didn't mind the swimming scene. For me it was showing more that potentially the genetically engineered folks might end up with different views on morality and might even end up valuing the lives of the "inferior" much less than one might think. But yeah, the very end with the suits was just weird.

The Eugenics Wars

7 days ago
only for sport. I wanna see mutants fight in a giant arena. Coupled with pollution we could aptly rename Earth to Sakaar.

The Eugenics Wars

7 days ago

I'll take an order of Neural Feedback, Depth Perception,  Adrenal Neurosympathy, Mimetic Skin, and Adaptive Bone Marrow, please. You can put it on my tab. 

The Eugenics Wars

7 days ago
It will be interesting to see the apocalyptic unforseen consequences that arise from this haha!

Once they fiddle with the genes and the kid is viable, they have to let nature take it's course - which means the new gene-set will get passed along.

Imagine a few generations down the road were generically enhanced cannibals have taken over.

Or some poor line goes extinct due to exploding sack syndrome.

The possibilities are endless - as is man's ability to royally Fark it all up LOL!

The Eugenics Wars

7 days ago
Get your zombie gear ready!

The Eugenics Wars

7 days ago
What the article focuses on isn't even really the pros and cons of genetic engineering, but more what's highlighted in their last point:

15. This could easily happen again.

Last year, the world learned that a group of scientists had resurrected a virus called horsepox. Several researchers and ethicists criticized that work, arguing that it would make it easier for others to recreate the related (and far more dangerous) smallpox virus. As I wrote in October, regardless of the risks or merits of the experiment, it reveals a vulnerability at the heart of modern science. That is: Small groups of researchers can make virtually unilateral decisions about experiments that have potentially global consequences, and that everyone else only learns about after the fact.

He Jiankui’s experiment reveals that vulnerability in the starkest-possible light.


It's one of those things where once the cat's out of the bag there's not going to be any way to control or regulate it. Certainly not globally. As the article points out, China even has a medical ethics board which this guy completely circumvented. The US itself has no laws in place (except that genetically engineering a baby could apparently count as distributing medication without the approval of the FDA...) It's recognized globally by the scientific community to be too complicated ethically and with too much still not understood to go mess with at present.

None of that even slowed this guy down at all however and we went right ahead with his sloppy hackwork on the children of people who hadn't even legally given informed consent. I'd be really surprised if this was really the first time anyone had done this (the only reason anyone knows is because of a leak) and it definitely won't be the last. In this case they don't even think what he did will work and don't know for sure what the consequences will be, and as badly as this dude fucked up, there are ways to do so much more dramatically which I'm sure we'll all start seeing a few years down the road.

The Eugenics Wars

7 days ago
Indeed, it probably will keep happening. There will always be mad scientists who think they know better than anyone else who are just going to do it because they believe they can. I honestly don't think there's any possible way to stop something like this.

The Eugenics Wars

6 days ago

Yeah, that's the problem. Genome editing is not bad per se, but as it progresses towards frontier decisions there should be more efficient guidelines and committees (possibly worldwide) overseeing this type of research. Another valid point that is brought up in an another article linked there is that these kind of decisions shouldn't be made by scientists alone (who sometimes don't think about the impact on society) but should also be reviewed by ethicists, sociologist, representatives etc.

The Eugenics Wars

7 days ago
Oh, and since I was asked, I mentioned I was reading about those babies and linked the article, and Steve of course immediately and without reading it decided the topic to argue about would be 'Why can't you Luddites comprehend that genetic engineering is good with no possible downsides???' and then was just like 'huuuhh? but what does horse pox have to do with genetic engineering, why do you not understand that thing is not the same as other thing???' and pretended like I was going off topic when I posted that quote to try and provide a tl;dr of the actual point of the article for him.

He was settling down for more of his usual dog at a bone antics and I told him I wasn't in the mood, and when he ignored me I moved him out of the main channel as a hint to use the debate channel instead. He logged out and then in again to evade that and welp, RIP.

Once Steve was gone we all proceeded to have a really enjoyable conversation on the topic as well as other things now that the main channel couldn't be hijacked and dominated for hours by one person who likes to attack and interrogate everyone who tries to share a thought and turn everything into an argument instead of a discussion.

Anyway some really good story ideas were tossed around as a result and I think almost everyone's in the mood to write dystopian sci-fi now.



Oh and regarding Steve, I acknowledge he does contributing valuable things to writing discussion those times when he's able to restrain himself. And so, since I like to think of myself as the Mod of the People, I will let him back in if a majority vote from the regulars indicates he is wanted and the pros outweigh the cons.

The Eugenics Wars

7 days ago

Oh, that's what you were doing. That wasn't clear to me, didn't know you wanted me to use the debate channel. Admittedly, probably should've, but only saw my ability to post in the Townsquare was prohibited, and didn't check to see if it was active in Debate Hell.

Either way, I did clearly state that genetic engineering had downsides, and that the CRISPR thing was bad and shouldn't have been listened to, and that genetic engineering babies does not necessitate doing work into horse pox.

I also mentioned how the article specifically had a pro-Genetic Engineering dude who was a critic of CRISPR, showing that there is indeed a difference between the science and one scientist.

The Eugenics Wars

6 days ago

I haven't seen any critic of CRISPR in that article.

The Eugenics Wars

6 days ago

Sorry, He's CRISPR work.

The Eugenics Wars

7 days ago
*mod of the People