Did you hear about the bombs in Boston? So sad!!!
I agree. It's very messed up. North Korea (if it WAS them) simply wants attention after sitting on the sidelines for so long, but why the need to go out and do something this drastic?
Why would you think it was North Korea that did it?
Now how did you possibly come to that conclusion?
Why would you think that?
Will somebody explain whats going on with Korea and america
N-Korea is like that one tiny kid who tries to fit in with the big kids by acting tough. S/he also hates his twin.
America is the young new-guy who acts as leader of the group but is a complete a-hole about it.
That's how I always view them at least. :)
Nobody knows who blew up what, if a who even blew what up.
It probably isn't a terrorist, because they would've stepped forward and said they did it.
Personally if i wished to terrorize a superpower-nation I would do so by posing as several different factions and not really stepping forward and telling people.
Yep probably wasn't N- Korea
just so you know fire play most intelligent Americans do not take offense to you calling us a holes we are most of the time. Like in history class we just finished native Americans we were kinda complete and utter dicks/a holes any other word to them.
but some of us actually want to do something about it!!! Go for the no more being a holes. (What do you mean new guy wait I get it just because we are only a 200 year old nation we are new?!?!?)
If I was to terrorize a super power nation I wouldn't give any hint just at the place leave a little symbol and let people's own fear at on itself.
I'm close to that, I don't mind my country being called in a-hole, but in most cases I kinda want it to keep going. I like being a part of a superpower. And yes, compared to civilizations spanning thousands of years and most castles even being older than us, we're a young nation :P
See, America is an a-hole, but I fail to see how that differs from any other super power in the world. China is an a-hole to its people, UK tend to be a-holes about Israel, and try and control a country they have no connection to, Germany is trying to take over Spain and Greece, etc.
We are all a-holes, and every super power has a dark past/done horrible things to a minority. It's not something new, and while what America did to the indians and African Americans was horrible, it's not like the other countries were benelovent to their minorities.
People tend to point at America and call it an a-hole (which is true) but then turn their back on the injustices their country has done/is doing.
True but there has been some good nations and good people who have lead those nations. I think most Americans have an underlining fear of our government and that's why most people only complain on the Internet, where they can hide.
"These damn mountains better be worth the journey to paradise. The downhill is a killer!" - Unknown
We do have an underlying fear of government. As our nation formed we looked at Britain, France and other European countries and noticed how much power was focus on a central government or person. We did not want a central government too powerful and this despite being a good plan. Splits us and as such complain and hide behind our rights too say the government that made those rights official are wrong. (this is what I gathered from history classes and internet)
Congrats, you guys just explained that US americans have a fear of government. Why are we the main a-hole nation though, when what we did in our past is mild compared to what other countries have done?
I am unsure if there is sarcasm somewhere in there... I think I can feel it but I am not positive.
The congrats was sarcastic since it didn't help your argument at all.
Ok, i've been following this but this was the only question to which I feel actually has to be asked/answered (the rest were more or less either obvious or too debatable to work out normally)
I think that it's because at the moment the U.S is (at teh very least in my opinion) the most powerful country on earth.
People don't like being dominated over by some unknown country, just like most people don't like being ordered around.
I think (and this is really just my personal opinion) that the U.S meddles in other coutnries too much, it restricts them and bullies them and because of this, other countries and people begin to think that eh U.S is a self-entitled country, that will use it's money and military power to do whatever the fuck they want (which I think they do) and they do not like it.
So, to summarize, they would consider america an a-hole country for being successful, dominant, and meddelsome.
(I personally don't like U.S all that much, but if i had to be honest it really is WAY better than almost all countries on earth)
See, the problem is that we don't argue with this point even though other countries meddle with others as well. It's become an accepted fact that America is the biggest a-hole (and while we are a-holes), we aren't the worst,
well, every country has a point in time where they were the biggest a-holes on the planet (I think america's time would be either the slavery period or ever since MTV's 16 and pregnant began filming.)
Maybe people just think back to those times out of habit, and whenever they see america do something a-holish (even if it isn't that bad) they just think "they're at it again, those a-holes"
(in essence maybe people have just made it a habit to think of america as the worst a-holes)
P.s: i feel as if we're using the word a-hole way too much
overkill on a-hole agreed...
Anyway look back at the colonial time or how we generally treated the natives for our worst. Though that was not the worst in the world.
Yeah, we have been quite bad. But to be honest, if you're looking for the worst in recent times, it would be Germany.
The difference is that Germany had been recovering from the first world war (although that wasn't in their favor in the first place) and conditions were horrible. they were treated horribly by the victors (the berlin wall would be the best example) and so they needed to place the blame on someone for their misfortunes. Then, lo and behold came the nazis. Hitler was (apparently) charismatic, intelligent, and knew how to make people really racist.
Think of it as a dumb poor bitter kid being fooled by a smart charismatic poor kid into blaming a certain race for all his problems.
Also, (I think) hitler was pretty much a dictatr in the later stages of the world war, taking responsibility off the german people for the mass racism.
America on the other hand, has made it abundantly clear that they are a democratic country, and that they will stick withtheir guy to the end, so when america is being douchy, people think of it as all (or at least the majority) of americans as being douchy.
i'm pretty sure they're a democracy, not a republic
To big to be a real democracy and it operates more like a representative democracy which is more or less the definition of a republic system.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090201222959AAvJ2hO <--top answer
I think it's more republic but that's my opinion.
ok, but the official system (or at the very least the system that they tell everyone they use) is democracy, and seeing as this conversation is about what other countries think of U.S, that's all that matters
Sorry but we are both mostly a indirect democracy as a republic. So we "rule" through elected officials.
2 people are dead, from what I last heard!!!
3 dead now :(
What I think about this is that someone is trying to escalate things with N.K.
As most of you might know, N.K and America ain't exactly best buds and the N.K have been making a lot of threats these few days and it so coincidentally happen right at 15 of April (The birthday of the late leader of N.K).
So what I think is that someone might be trying to coerce the countries into a war... possibly.
How about instead of everybody jumping to all of these conclusions about who's responsible, whether it's the North Koreans, Al-Qaeda, or space reptilians, we let the FBI do it's job to catch and convict them? Everything at this point is based on pure speculation. It was a tragedy, but randomly assigning blame just because of political tension can't help the situation.
THREE PEOPLE DEAD?????
THE THIRD ONE WAS EIGHT!!!!!
WHAT HAS THIS WORLD COME TO?????
Yeah, that eight year old was a Sandy Hook survivor...
Is that really true? Where did you hear that from?
I got it off the news, but they haven't confirmed it. And they also say there's an odd coincidence between the Sandy Hook Shooting and Boston Marathon Bombing. The Marathon is 26 miles, correct? 26 people were pronounced dead at the Shooting. Although a bit irrelevant, it seemed interesting to share.
K. well if so, OMG SO SAD!!!
I don't think that's true, Awesome. The 8 year old boy was from Dorchester, which I'm fairly sure is a neighborhood in boston and not a town in Connecticut. But my geography has been known to be awfully wrong before.
Edit: Yup, he went to Queen Street charter school http://www.bostonglobe.com/2013/04/16/dorchester-neighbors-mourn-martin-richard-year-old-boy-killed-boston-marathon-bombings/keiXi55ZFf2YGityy16EuN/story.html
All I know is what I saw in a picture online, which could've very easily be wrong and made only in an attempt to get likes, that the 8 year old was running in the marathon for charity to raise money for the families of victims at Sandy Hook.
I could be wrong, all I'm relying on is a google search of Dorchester and Sandy Hook to find their locations, and the school he went to just before the bombings (it's conceivable he switched schools after the shooting). But then again, just because he's raising money doesn't mean he goes there. I also didn't see anything about him running, but the news article posted that Bill Richard (his father) didn't run, and if an 8 year old could run a marathon I'd be pretty fucking impressed.
I know, that's why I'm skeptical about it. I'd trust that link more than a picture saying "1 Liek = 1 respect" on Facebook any day though.
Yes it's sad, but is there much point to crying over some dead people instead of sending help or just being more aware of your surroundings to stop this problems in the first place?
haha there was a bomb hidden in a pressure cooker at the scene, I'm pretty sure being aware that there's a pressure cooker in my surroundings doesn't alert me to there being a bomb in it :P.
It would help knowing who brought the pressure cooker if you survived though.
Fireplay, I kinda agree with you, but we stilll have to remember, that even though we never knew the dead people and their... well...dead, we still have to be respectful that they once lived.
I respect that they are dead and I agree we need to be respectful to both them and their families. I'm just saying we need to do something to fix the problem instead of complaining about it. :)
agreed and I heard it was hidden in a garbage can after all you would get more shrapnel in a metal can than a pot.
News said that the authorities said that it was likely to be a terrorist attack.
The materials were similar to that of the ones on terrorist and white-supremacists' sites, but no one has any idea who made it.
A suspect was caught, but let go after finding no connection to the bombings.
No groups as of 4-16-13 have claimed responsibility.
Rumors (NOT facts) report that there might have been more bombs that have been diffused. A separate incident involving bombs may have been confused with the Boston bombing.
Yeah, I heard that there were two bombs that were diffused.
(That SH thing apparently isn't true. I wasn't sure, I just post what I hear and wait for a logical answer :P)
dont worry about it.
I heard that a guy was planning on proposing to his girlfriend who was running but she died. My friend says it's fake and i do to but that would suck. Also i hope that the people killed will R.I.P.
I don't know anything about the situation really. I actually consider the way people are lying to exploit these attacks in an attempt to get Facebook likes more disgusting than the acts themselves.
Very true... How can anyone try to do something like that? Some people just don't have consciousness'. It's very wrong, but most people never learn, or refuse to do it.
It's sick and sadistic. I heard from a friend someone posted that the 8 yr old who died was at sandy hook but he was running to raise money. Thats just plain old sick...
I don't think it's sadistic by any means. Horridly lacking of any empathy, sure, but not sadistic by any means.
Probably I am having a bad day and after all I just kinda fishing. Still it's horrible what they are doing.
I agree. Messed up.
I just find it hard to understand. If it is a terroristic attack, why the Boston Marathon? Because they want to start off small and gain ground? Or is it because the Marathon symbolized hope? The cruel irony made me feel really sick.
Well, maybe because of the size? There were over 20,000 people running, and it clearly got the nation's attention, so they got their goal.
As of last night the bombers have been identified
[Updated at 11:38 a.m. ET]
BOSTON—A late-night police chase and shootout has left one marathon bombing suspect dead and another on the run, police here said, as residents of the still-grieving city were ordered by officials to "shelter in place" while the manhunt continues. One police officer was killed and another was seriously wounded during the violent spree.
Authorities identified the surviving Boston bomb suspect as Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, 19, of Cambridge, Mass., and said that the suspects were brothers. The second bombing suspect is Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, according to NBC News, who was found with an IED on his body. The brothers' family is originally from Chechnya, a volatile southern Russian republic. Photographer Johannes Hirn took this photo essay of the older brother, a boxer. The captions suggest Tsarnaev came to America as a child with his family as refugees after fleeing the war-torn part of Russia. Dhokhar Tsarnaev posted links to Islamic and pro-Chechnyan independence sites on what appears to be his social media page.
The suspects' uncle told the local CBS News station that the pair had lived in the country since 2002. The uncle, when told that one of his nephews was killed, replied that he deserved it. “He deserved his. He absolutely deserved his,” Ruslan Tsarni said. “They do not deserve to live on this earth.”
Tsarni said he learned his nephews were suspects by reading a Russian language news source. "Since these people do have association to me by blood, I say they're barbarians," he added.
In an emotional press conference later, Tsarni said his nephews had brought shame upon his family and called them "losers." He said they were not "able to settle themselves" and were "angry at everyone who was able to."
"Dzhokhar, If you're alive, turn yourself in and ask for forgiveness from the victims, the injured and those who left," he said. "He put a shame on our family. He put a shame on the entire Chechnyan ethnicity. Turn yourself in."
He added that he hadn't been in touch with the family for several years, but would not say why.
"I'm ready to kneel in front of them and ask their forgiveness," Tsarni said of the victims of his nephews' crime. "I respect this country; I love this country ... this country that gives everybody chance to be treated like human being." Tsarni said he and his family are Muslims, but that anyone who connects the crime to religion is a "fraud."
The Wall Street Journal, citing unnamed law enforcement sources, said that one or both of the brothers traveled back to the Caucasus region of Russia for a year or more before returning to America again, but Tsarni said he did not believe either brother had ever been to Chechnya.
Tsarnaev's father, reached by the AP in Russia by phone, said his son was a "true angel" and wonderful student. He later told ABC's Good Morning America that he wanted his son to surrender peacefully.
The University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth announced shortly after 10:30 a.m. on Friday that they were evacuating the entire campus after learning Tsarnaev is a registered student there.
At sunrise, Gov. Deval Patrick ordered a shutdown of all public transit and residents on the edges of Boston to stay indoors as a massive manhunt for the second suspect was underway. The entire city in Boston was under a shelter in place order by late Friday morning. The Boston Globe reported that police are focusing on a 20-block area of Watertown, and fear the suspect may be wearing explosives.
“This situation is grave and we are trying to protect the public safety,” said Massachusetts State Police Col. Timothy Alben, who ordered a lockdown of Watertown, Waltham, Belmont, Cambridge, Newton, Allston and Brighton. A no fly zone has been declared over Watertown. The city of Boston was eerily quiet during Friday's rush hour, the city's busy intersections totally abandoned.
Marathon bombing suspect Tsarnaev (FBI)
Federal agents swarmed Watertown after local police were involved in a car chase and shootout with the men identified Thursday by the FBI as Suspect 1 and Suspect 2 in the Boston bombings. During the pursuit, officers could be heard on police radio traffic describing the men as having handguns, grenades and other explosives.
The mayhem began at approximately 10:20 p.m. Thursday when police said the bombing suspects robbed a 7-Eleven store in Cambridge. Minutes later, police said, the men shot and killed an MIT campus officer responding to the robbery call. The terror suspects then carjacked a Mercedes-Benz with the driver inside and fled, eventually letting driver go. They were then spotted in Watertown where they exchanged dozens of rounds of gunfire with patrol officers.
Tamerlan Tsarnaev was shot by police and brought to Beth Israel Medical Center. He arrived at the hospital under cardiac arrest with multiple gunshot wounds and blast-like injuries to his chest. The second suspect fled on foot, leading to the tense manhunt that is still underway at this hour.
"We believe this to be a terrorist," said Boston police Commissioner Ed Davis. "We believe this to be a man who has come here to kill people. We need to get him into custody."
A transit officer, Richard H. Donohue, was seriously wounded during the exchange of gunfire, officials said.
[Related: FBI releases photos of suspects in Boston Marathon bombings]
Boston police says the suspect who remains at large was the "one in the white hat" seen in the photos released by the FBI on Thursday in the investigation into the twin explosions that killed 3 people and injured 170 others at the Boston Marathon on Monday.
In a radio alert sent issued to fellow officers, the suspect was described as a "white male with dark complexion ... with thick curly hair wearing a charcoal gray hooded sweatshirt ... possibly with an assault rifle and explosives." Police in Watertown, Newton, Brighton and Cambridge were put on high alert. "Units use caution," an officer said. "He might have an explosive object on his person."
Worried residents in Watertown, a suburb about 8 miles from downtown Boston, were ordered to stay indoors and turn off their cell phones out of fear that they could trigger improvised explosive devices.
"Suspect 2" seen in 7-Eleven surveillance footage; police in Watertown (BPD/Getty)
Dozens of police officers, many of them off-duty, searched backyards in pursuit of the second suspect, and a police perimeter of several blocks was established. K9 units and SWAT teams searched homes on Spruce Street as officers with a police robot searched an SUV that the suspects had abandoned. Multiple devices were left in the road and two handguns were recovered, according to police scanners.
Slain MIT police officer Sean Collier. (Middlesex DA)
The Watertown shootout occurred after a gunfight erupted near the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, where the MIT police officer, 26-year-old Sean Collier, was shot and later died. The campus was placed on lockdown for several hours, and students were told to remain indoors.
Shortly before 2 a.m. Friday, MIT issued a statement on its websitesaying that the suspect "in this evening's shooting is no longer on campus. It is now safe to resume normal activities. Please remain vigilant in the coming hours." MIT, Harvard, Boston University and other local colleges have cancelled classes.
President Barack Obama, who attended an interfaith service for the bombing victims in Boston on Thursday, was briefed on the overnight developments, the White House said early Friday.
At approximately 3:30 a.m., Massachusetts State Police issued a plea on Twitter for residents of Watertown to lock their doors and not open them for anyone as they searched backyards and exteriors of houses there.
"Residents in and around Watertown should stay in their residences," the alert read. "Do NOT answer door unless it is an identified police officer."
Police were able to track down images of the suspects after a victim of the attacks, Jeff Bauman, came to them with a description, Bloomberg reported Thursday. Bauman's legs were torn apart by the bomb.
MAKHACHKALA, Russia (AP) — Militants from Chechnya and other restive provinces in Russia's volatile North Caucasus have targeted Moscow and other areas with bombings and hostage-takings, but if it turns out that the suspects in the Boston bombings are linked to those insurgencies it would mark the first time the Russian conflict had spawned a major terror attack in the United States.
The suspects were identified by law enforcement officials and family members as Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev, ethnic Chechens with ties to the Russian region. There was no immediate information of their links, if any, to any insurgent group.
Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, was killed in a gun battle with police in Massachusetts overnight, officials said. His 19-year-old brother escaped.
Before moving to the United States, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev lived briefly in Makhachkala, the capital of Dagestan, a predominantly Muslim republic that has become the epicenter of the Islamic insurgency that spilled over from Chechnya. On his page on the social networking site VKontakte, Tsarnaev said he attended School No. 1 from 1999 until 2001.
The principal of School No. 1 in Makhachkala, Irina Bandurina, told the AP that Tsarnaev left for the U.S. in March 2002.
The suspects' father, who lives in Makhachkala, told the AP his younger son was a second-year medical student and "a true angel."
The conflict in Chechnya began in 1994 as a separatist war, but quickly morphed into an Islamic insurgency dedicated to carving out an independent Islamic state in the Caucasus.
Russian troops withdrew from Chechnya in 1996 after the first Chechen war, leaving it de-facto independent and largely lawless, but then rolled back three years later following apartment building explosions in Moscow and other cities blamed on the rebels.
Chechnya has stabilized under the steely grip of Kremlin-backed local strongman Ramzan Kadyrov, a former rebel whose forces have been accused of massive rights abuses. But the Islamic insurgency has spread to neighboring provinces, with Dagestan, sandwiched between Chechnya and the Caspian Sea, becoming the epicenter of violence with militants launching daily attacks against police and other authorities.
Militants from Chechnya and neighboring provinces have carried out a long series of terror attacks in Russia, including a 2002 hostage-taking raid in a Moscow theater, in which 129 hostages died, a 2004 hostage-taking in a school in the southern city of Beslan that killed more than 330 people, and numerous bombings in Moscow and other cities.
The Obama administration placed Chechen warlord Doku Umarov on a list of terrorist leaders after he claimed responsibility for March 2010 double suicide bombings on Moscow's subway that killed 40 and a November 2009 train bombing that claimed 26 lives.
In recent years, however, militants in Chechnya, Dagestan and other neighboring provinces have largely refrained from attacks outside the Caucasus.
Russian officials and experts have claimed that rebels in Chechnya had close links with al-Qaida. They said that dozens of fighters from Arab countries trickled into Chechnya during the fighting there, while some Chechen militants have gone to fight in Afghanistan.
The U.S. has long urged Russia's government and separatist elements in Chechnya not aligned with al-Qaida or other terrorist organizations to seek a political settlement.
Washington provided aid to the area during the high points of fighting in the 1990s and in the early 2000s, and has demanded human rights accountability.
But the U.S. always backed the territorial integrity of Russia, never endorsing the separatists' desire for an independent state. And it has supported Russia's right to root out terrorism in the region.
In recent years, people from Chechnya have faced charges in several European countries.
In 2011, a Chechen-born man was sentenced in Denmark to 12 years in prison for preparing a letter bomb that exploded as he was assembling it in a Copenhagen hotel a year earlier.
Lors Doukayev, a then 25-year-old, one-legged resident of Belgium, was wounded when assembling the device, which is believed also to have been intended for the Jyllands-Posten newspaper, which published controversial cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad. No one else was injured. The letter was filled with steel pellets and contained triacetone triperoxide, or TATP, which terrorists used in the bombs that killed 52 people in London in 2005.
Last month, Spain's Interior Ministry said French and Spanish police arrested three suspected Islamic extremists in an operation in and around Paris. A statement said the suspected activists were of Chechen origin and believed to be linked to an alleged terror cell dismantled last August in southern Spain. The cell was suspected of planning attacks in Spain and elsewhere in Europe.
Two suspects, Elsy Issakov and Mourad Idrissov, were arrested in Paris and a third, Ali Dokaev, was detained in the town of Noyon, northeast of the French capital. The arrests took place Feb. 26.
In August, two Russians arrested in the southwestern Spanish city of La Linea were charged with belonging to an unnamed terror organization and possession of explosives.
Isachenkov reported from Moscow. Bradley Klapper in Washington contributed to this report.
Wow, I never even knew Chechnya existed before earlier today, and I never heard about the Chechnyan conflict until I read that article. Definately interesting, I guess the American mindset just associates terrorism with the Middle East after the 9/11 attacks, because I never pictured radical Islamic terrorism in the Caucases.
Side note: What if the goal of the attack was simply to raise awareness of the Chechnyan conflict in America? I mean, it's far fetched but it just struck me and I thought it interesting, even though I don't have any proof. I mean, they're already bombing sites in Russia so it could just be another act of terrorism in the conflict that's just spreading over to the US
THEY CAUGHT THE LAST GUY THEY CAUGHT THE LAST GUY THEY CAUGHT HIM THEY CAUGHT HIM!!!!!!!!!
Haha yeah, right in the middle of dinner too! Wonder what they'll get out of him, as far as I know Al Qaida still hasn't claimed them and I'm wondering who's behind it.
I thought Bo was lured here by the misleading title shown on the forums main page: Another update on Bo.
Anyway, it's great that they caught him, and I don't think he is affiliated with AQ
Apparently the type of explosions used in the bombings were similar to those that come from bombs made by AQ (just passing it on, I don't know anything about explosion dispersal patterns so I can't know for myself :P) and they have a presence in Chechnya. What differed from the typical AQ attack is that they didn't kill themselves with the blasts to prevent giving away information upon arrest, so authorities have speculated that they either A.) Weren't part of AQ, B.) Weren't done with their mission, or 3.) couldn't bring themselves to go through with it.
and I noticed that it cut off Boston to make Bo and I thought it was funny, but I was gonna keep up witht he thread anyway :P
Chechnya actually has an epicenter of terrorist activity. The difference between these militant Islamists and the Al Quadia types is that rather than claiming a religious Jihad, they are separatists making statements about Chechnen independence. Basically what they are doing is rebelling against Russia.
The two bombers have been linked to an Islamist militant group that is responsible for hundreds of bombing deaths in Russia, they don't typically suicide bomb. Normally, they plant bombs like they did in Boston or create a large scale hostage situation. There have been cases in the past decades where in one hostage situation this group would butcher over 100 people over the course of the ordeal.
They do technically share a religion with Al Quada and are connected to them. Chechnen militants from this group and others have aided Terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq, and also vice versa during the Chechnen-Russian wars.
So if they have an issue with Russia, why bomb us?
Well the answer is most likely because America supported Russia during the wars between the two. America has stated that Russia has the right to put down rebellion on it's own soil. That's my speculation at least, although i'd like to hear other people's ideas too...
If that's the case, then are we entering another scenario like in the Middle East? Us sending soldiers over there and all...
No, if anything we are looking at another Russian-Chechnen conflict. Us sending soldiers over there would be a slap in Russia's face.
Which will leave US people pissed.
Chechnya supporters. might bring some hate on itself from two superpowers.
Yup, they might actually inadvertently cause Russian-US relations to strengthen now that we've both been bombed by these people, but that would be the optimistic viewpoint...
They could be a privately funded group that covered it's tracks and we get nothing. Go pessimism right?
The two of them likely just caught up with the wrong people or were acting on their own out of general hate of America
Highly unlikely, they grew up in Dagestan, a terrorist epicenter in Chechnya. Not only that, but one of them visited Dagestan in 2012 for an extended period of time. Their classmates all repeatedly stated that they were both highly against America's war in Iraq and are outspoken pro-Chechnen independence. Their father even threatened that "All hell will break loose if you kill my son." He claimed his sons were angels, while their uncle condemned them. Frankly, their father is most likely connected in all of this some how.
Islamic terrorist groups in Dagestan have been responsible for many bombings in Russia, especially Moscow, over the last decade. Unfortunately, the media is full of idiots who say "A terrorist group linked to Al Quada", which is true, but then Americans immediately picture Osama Bin Laden. What they also fail to notice is how close Chechnya is to Afghanistan. Historically, they have supported the terrorists during the war in Iraq. They are connected, but their motives and goals are different.
Considering the level of knowledge they had in their IEDs, use of weapons(which their father claimed neither of them knew anything about), and the highly intelligent and planned out way they both executed the bombing and fled from police, I highly doubt they are acting on their own. But, I do gree they got caught up with the wrong people, those people being terrorists...
These terrorists are sick and are not worthy of being called muslims.
The other suspect was caught.
Now we wait.
And relations with foreign nations goes down yet again...
How so? I haven't read anything on hurt relations. Are they disapproving of how we're handling the terrorist?
No, it's the idiot populace spreading their idiocy about how them being Russians will result in a plot not too different from call of duty. Idiots.
I swear some people should not be allowed to breed...
Let alone custodial rights to another person...
Actually I've been reading a lot of conspiracy stuff about this being all the work of the US government.
Basically some of the stuff going around is that the government put Boston under martial law (even though they didn't call it that) with very little effort and this was all a "test" to see how easily they could do it and how quickly they could do it.
Further arguments say that it seemed like an overkill display of force.Shutting down an entire city, searching citizen's homes, having armies walk down the street all seemed unnecessary just to track down one teenage terrorist. And that the scarier part was that how easily people were voluntarily staying inside and allowing soldiers/police to search their homes without any sort of warrant or authorization to do so.
Combine this with the recent gun law stuff and you've got very paranoid individuals saying the we're getting closer to a police state.
Don't worry though, IF this happens and IF I'm lucky enough to get a job working for the new world order, I'll put in the good word for everyone at Choose Your Story and mention that none of you should be sent to the execution chambers.
Dunno if the evil overlords will actually listen to me, but maybe I can try to at least fudge the paperwork so you just get hard labor instead.
Can't do anything if you decide to join the resistance though. Sorry.
Damn it they found out Nah, that's just paranoid rambling
I've been worrying about the response too. Thousands of "police" patrolling the streets for one man, and heavily armed at that, shutting down all the major transportation and forcing citizens to stay in their homes. I found it very odd, I just kinda figured they're putting on a show for the populace so they don't say the government doesn't care.
Dang, that's pretty generous of you, End. Good lookin' out, buddy.
I hadn't heard about that! :0 I wonder exactly how they're operating over there, if there's really some sort of martial law or anything. Pretty crazy. Though, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of some cracked out conspiracy theory, yumm. As far as decent news coverage or merit worthy journalism goes... we are fairly limited here D: haha
Sure hella a lot better than what they do here. The police will implicate some poor muslim boys as the 'masterminds', torture them to get a 'confession' and then put them in the noose's shadow. In sime cases fifteen years might pass before the supreme court decides that the they are innocent. After that they cant get jobs because no one wants to risk employing a 'terrorist'.
We also had bomb blast in here few days after the boston blast that thankfully didnt kill anyone. Since it was near a major politacal parties's office and it is poll time, accusations were flung around by parties that it was to generate sympathy, etc. The police havent found anything yet.
Umm, they were deploying bombs, throwing military grade explosives at police, and had a long shootout, I'm preeeeetty sure they're guilty.
But what's up up with the blast? That seems to be a little extreme to generate sympathy, hopefully nobody would really go through that.
The reason everything was shut down was because of the potential for unexploded bombs in the city. Police "asked" residents to stay inside. The fact that they did so voluntarily was most likely out of fear that other bombings could happen. Personally, I would allow police and military personal to enter my home without a warrant in such circumstances. You have to remember that this was a situation where the suspects were literally throwing military grade explosives and IEDs at police during very dangerous shootouts. Imagine if the citizens hadn't stayed in their homes! They could have been caught in the crossfire or even taken hostage. I mean, would you have left your home if you were them? Just some food for though :)
Shutting down the city and telling everyone to stay inside I can actually understand to a point, I have more issue with just letting cops inside my home without a warrant.
I'm just saying at least throw a piece of paper at me with some sort of official name on it. And yeah, if push came to shove I'm probably not going to argue with a bunch of heavily armed cops if they really insist on coming in, but I'm sure not going to be happy about it.
I mean if I'm inside all day anyway, I'm going to know if a terrorist is inside my house or not. And if he is, that's going to end in two ways long before the cops start knocking on my door.
Either they're going to find my dead body and then they can do whatever the hell want to the house because I'm in no position to voice an opinion any longer.
I'm going to let the cops in, because I managed to get the drop on said terrorist and I need them to pick up his corpse.
I'm with you there. I hate having anybody inside my home unannounced, but sadly shit happens. If it isn't a surprise inspection by the apartment complex(I used to have those before I enlisted and I now I have even worse ones by Sergeants in the military dorms), then it might be MP's searching for a terrorist.
But, from the military/police standpoint they don't know who could be hiding these people. For all they know someone within the city is giving the terrorist a hiding place of sorts. I do think they should have paperwork, but at the same time... I mean if you don't want to dragged for conspiring with terrorists just because you demand a warrant before you allow a SWAT team in your house then most people will be like "yeah ok". Saying "no you need paperwork" works for homicide investigations, even drug related stuff. But, armed and dangerous terrorists linked to an international militant terrorist organization with military grade weapons... Well, that requires a some damn fast thinking and flexibility. I think it's a less a matter of "The terrorist may have snuck into your home without you knowing" and more of a "We don't know who the fuck is hiding this bastard so either work with us or prepare for a shit storm!". It sucks, but is necessary.
BTW- I'm sort of relaying view points from a Military perspective. We've been sort of analyzing the whole thing in my classes in DLI and I'll just say it looks very different from that perspective than it does for the civilians. So just consider what I say a different view point ;)
So the military is saying that somehow a terrorist would be able to sneak into and hide inside my house without me knowing? I'd take that as an insult and still demand a warrant. Besides if they bust into my house and find nothing then that means I could easily sue them. (Likely with some heavy backing from people throughout the country.)
That and I agree with Endmaster's perspective; Either I or the terrorist would die long before the military gets there.
(I understand your showing us the military perspective but making the people pissed at the goverment would not help in the long run. Possibly even encouraging more people join said terrorist's or form their own groups.)
I guess. I like my privacy, but I don't have an issue with cooperating with the military and police in order to help them catch terrorists. Which in the end is what it does come down too. I mean, would you really sue the heroes that took down those bombers?
On what? They were after terrorists who had bombed innocent people, killed three, including an 8 year old child. What more reason do you need to cooperate without a piece of paper saying you "have" to let them in? Nuclear fallout? Invasion?
I think it's just a matter of what you might have inside of the house that you don't want them to see.
Seems like in situations like these, all they'd have to do is print out a bunch of warrants and just have someone sign them before hand. They're already mobilizing several hundred cops to do a city wide manhunt, I'm sure while that bit is going on, they can easily get someone over to the copy machine/printer to create the warrants.
Some official government document stating "General warrant for a state of emergency" or whatever really wouldn't be that time consuming to create.
I mean I understand the other side of it. If I was a police officer or soldier I wouldn't want to have to deal with the paper work and have to mess about with things like warrants just to do my job either.
That's one of the reasons why I ceased my wish to be a police officer when I was in elementary school. A police man came to speak with us once about the job and he stated how he couldn't just go around shooting criminals (or suspected criminals) otherwise he'd be just as crazy as said criminal and be in trouble.
At that point I was like thinking, "If I can't just go around shooting criminals, then what's the point?"
If the police enter your house without any respect for your privacy, no reason to suspect you, without asking for your permission and with no warrant then i'd call that abuse of power. At the very least, I would feel as if my privacy would be violated and I would most certainly sue the police.
Well, I'm sure one day if you get into a hostage situation where you can't kill the highly trained, armed with military grade weapons, terrorist that manages to get inside your home during a massive scale manhunt then that little piece of paper will come in handy. I'll be sure to take extra time on my way in for negotiations to have that paper with ink on it to make sure you don't sue me when I fight a terrorist for you. Being a bit serious because I would handle situations like that involving any terrorists of Russian background. Good to know so I can keep my priorities straight. Paperwork first, lives second, killing terrorists last. Check!
If the terrorist made me a hostage then I sincerely doubt that he'd be stupid enough to kill me, getting rid of his only leverage and therefore forfeiting his life. In the end, if he wanted to kill me then the police, unless they were waiting in my home, would be useless, and if he didn't want to kill me, it would go as usual
I'm not police. I'm U.S. Army Crypto Linguistics and I'm leaning towards a specialization in Hostage negotiations and Interrogations with the way things are looking with areas like Dagestan. I wouldn't be there to keep him from killing you I'd be there to keep him from detonating a bomb and leveling a whole damn neighborhood and killing families within that neighborhood. Terrorists only take hostages for several reasons, especially these militants out of Dagestan like these bombers were.
1. Temporary leverage until they can achieve the higher goal at which time they blow your brains out because the hostage would not be useful anymore. Which means you cease to matter to anyone and all we give a shit about is the bomb.
2. Hostage trading(lets face it, you aren't a political figure).
3. Human shield
It isn't about staying alive for them, it's about hurting as many people as they can before they die. The things you are talking about demanding apply to things like serial killers, robbers, drug lords, ect. People who are small scale in their damage radius. Those are the people where the police will show up without any need for military backup(much less a crypto like me) and you say, "pfft get a warrant!". Yup, that's your right. Because it doesn't effect anybody else really. But, that's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about an international terror cell who just a few years ago entered a Russian elementary school and took all the children and teachers hostage and eventually killed them. All of the terrorists commited suicide one way or another during the event and only a few were prevented from the easy way out. Over 300 young children were killed. THOSE are the people you are talking about not letting us search wherever we damn well need to in order to keep everyone safe.
To add also. Keep in mind we don't know who lives where and in what house. It might be you, someone who will fight tooth and nail to keep the terrorist from controlling you if he got in. It might be a single mom who will do whatever the hell she has to in order to keep the terrorist from killing her kid, be it lying to the police or hiding him from them. We don't know. We can never know. A piece of paper doesn't fix that. And on the issue of them finding something illegal in your home during the unwarranted search it cannot legally be seized or used against you in court without that warrant being issued. So you would actually be more protected without the warrant than if they had one.
However if you just barge into someone's home (again,r without knowing for sure whether or not the terrorist is there) people WILL get hostile, or at least I would.
What you're telling me (or at least, the situation in my head when I read what you've written) Is what happens when you KNOW the terrorist in in the house, and that he has a bomb, and it has been publicly acknowledged that he has a hostage.
The situation I was referring to was police barging into people's homes and turning them upside down to look for a terrorist that is, in all likelyhood, not there.
They didn't barge in. They knocked on doors and when people let them in they searched the houses. Nobody had a damn problem with it until after the crazy people with bombs were done terrorizing the city.
If we knew the terrorist was in the house, we wouldn't knock. But, the problem is that at the time we didn't know where he was at all. Only that he had managed to get in this general area and he was somewhere there. I mean, should we have had a damn search warrant before we dragged him out of that man's boat? Or should we have waited to check under the tarp until we got a call that a boat had blown the hell up and taken out the man's kids with it a few days later.
I see your point, don't get me wrong. But, I think the situation in your head isn't what we are talking about at all. First off, it isn't like it's like this was a sunny day in Mayberry with Aunt Bee making apple pie as usual. This was a city which had been bombed days before and 100's of people were injured, 3 killed. Two men had laid down a bomb next to an 8 year old boy, knowing what it would do to him. And they had hurt all of those people.
Then when we caught up to them, they were literally tossing explosives at police and military personnel along with exchanging gunfire. Then one of them manages to get away(for all we know with a bomb strapped to him) into a neighborhood. We have it surrounded it. Well now what do we do?
Seriously, what would you have us do? Because obviously, you seem to know how to do my job and the police forces job and the military's job better than we do. I'll be sure to take notes and run them by my superiors in the mornings. I'll probably get bitched slapped and run into the dirt, but if you can come up with a viable one. I'll legit do it.
I did not say I knew how to do your job better than you did. I'm sure that I really have nothing near the knowledge that you would have on the subject (that was legitimate, no sarcasm) I was just offering my opinion.
And I DID say that it depends. in fact, I remember that I specifically said "maybe, it depends" as my answer. I wasn't reffering specifically to the boston bombers, I was just saying that it would depend on certain factors, and that I would indeed, given the right circumstances, be angry enough at the police to sue them.
Gotcha, that's where we went wrong then. I was being specific to the bombers and you were speaking generalized. What you were saying makes a bit more sense now
Agreed with Drakilian and Endmaster, I find it an abuse of power. Sure if I was a hostage I'd want them to save me, but I'm pretty sure it's implied that if I'm being held hostage I'm giving them permission to get the hell in there :P
More info on the bombers and their possible terror connections in Dagestan:
As investigators try to understand what led Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev to attack their adopted home city, they are looking carefully at one of the brother's connection to the far off region of Dagestan. YouTube videos posted by Tamerlan after his 2012 visit to the Russian province suggest a possible connection or relationship with Abu Dujana, an Islamic militant leader who was killed by the Russian army last Decemeber.
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The older Tsarnaev brother left the United States for six months last year, and apparently spent part of that time Dagestan. The brothers' father currently lives is Dagestan's capital, Makhachkala, which was also home to Abu Dujana, who was believed to have links to larger seperatist movements in the region, including Chechen terror groups. In December, Abu Dujana (also known as Gadzhimurad Dolgatov) and several others were killed by Russian security forces in a brutal firefight. Tsarnaev's YouTube channel had linked to videos of online speeches by Dolgatov that have since been taken down. CNN also has video of the battle that the Russians had released to prove both that Dolgatov was dead, and that his group was heavily armed and equipped at the time of the fight.
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Authorities haven't yet established any direct link between Dolgatov and Tsarnaev and its possible that he never did meet with any terrorists while in Dagestan. (According to the Daily Mail, during his trip there last year, Tsarnaev met several times with a low-level member of the local "underground" Islamic militant movement, but neither of them were ever questioned.)
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However, the video links could suggest that he was at least aware of and sympathized with Dolgatov's movement and perhaps could even have been inspired by his death. It may also have been a connection between the two that inspired authorities on both sides of the world to take an interest in Tsarnaev, leading to claims today that the FBI "dropped the ball" when tracking the potential terrorist.