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CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago

I know the title sounds really bad, but bear with me. We all know that Hitler made a lot of terrible, stupid decisions, right? (Ahem, declaring war on the US, USSR, screwing up the Battle of Britain, the effin' Holocaust, etc.) Well, Hearts of Iron IV got me thinking. What if you, the player, got put into Hitler's shoes, starting in 1936? You wouldn't have to go down the dark, idiotic path Hitler went down in real life - you could kick the eugenics programs into the trash bin and focus your efforts on bypassing the Maginot. You could keep true to the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and focus your efforts on Britain. Hell, maybe you could even invade America.

Well, obviously, I wouldn't be talking about all of this if I didn't intend to put some effort into writing a story about it. The problem is, I don't know just how a story from Hitler's POV could work. I mean, would it? There'd still be some pretty big issues with playing as the worst man to have ever lived in the history of the world.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago
Honestly, the only way I see this working is if you're not Hitler, and instead are a rival who kills him and tries to take over the world with Germany with a typical "World Domination" mind set rather than, you know, the "kill all the jews" mindset.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago
This is the best idea on the thread so far, except I'm picturing it as basically playing Dr. Wily.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago

"Damn you, Hitler! You've foiled my plots for the last time!"

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago
A unique idea like this shouldn't be wasted here. Pitch it over at COG so more people will see it and give detailed feedback.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago

Actually, you know what? I think I'm going to do that. Thanks for the suggestion.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago
Godspeed.

(I have to be at work in a few hours someone please save screenshots)

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago

Someone flagged my post and got my account banned.

It was a good run.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago

Sensitive CoG bitches.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago

Welp, might as well get to work on here.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago

Lol.

Considering they locked a thread just for a simple and polite discussion on how to describe Asian people without actually using the word "Asian" (Because it was a fantasy setting, so there wasn't an actual Asia) a thread about a Hitler story getting axed is hardly surprising.

In any case, I’d say it would be more interesting to just create a regular Nazi protagonist rather than Hitler just because you’ve got more freedom to do what you want with your writing.

Which direction you wanted to go in is up to you. If you want to keep it historical, and assuming he survives to the end of the war then the protagonist is ultimately either going to:

1. Get executed for war crimes

2. Escape to South America

3. Surrender and get a pass from the U.S. because you managed to make a side deal of some sort. (Attempting to do this with the U.S.S.R. would be an incredibly bad idea and you'd be better off getting executed)

Of course you'd also be free to do the whole alternative history route and the protagonist can change how things actually happen.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago
Hahaha. I'm surprised COG isn't a bigger fan of Nazis. They have a lot in common.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago

You're missing the big picture here, once again, surprising for someone who's play HoI IV. A large part of Hitler's seemingly chaotic evil behavior was due to resource shortages. I highly recommend you watch this 5 episode YouTube summary of the resource war of WW2 to understand a bit behind why he did what he did. Did he get too greedy in Russia? Yes, but that's not the same issue as madly attacking Russia without a plan/reason.

Hitler had many faults. Among them were his tendency to make grandstanding claims like a tiger but be an unambitious shrew in executing them, his crippling insecurity and need to have 'swear your loyalty to me' level commitment from his advisers (and executing/removing them if they didn't kiss the ring), plus a delirious belief in eugenics (which by the way was common in his day and age, it was in fact the defeat of Germany despite it's grandstanding on eugenics which led to eugenics' falling out of favor in erudite circles - till modern times atleast, it's on a comeback these days, like it or not) (Hitler's eugenics program vs Jews may have of all things started from him being rejected by his Jewish girlfriend early in life - see a pattern of insecurity here?). Another major issue with him was the irrational belief in pursuing development of 'superweapons' (wunderwaffen, literally meaning superweapons) over mundane weapons, to extreme cost and detriment. The mindset was to have something against which there can be no response, over more mundane things like working guns and bombs. His pursuit of superweapons made him deprioritize Radar, IIRC, and that would play a major part in losing the Battle of Britain.

Long story short, Hitler was a flawed, insecure man with crippling insecurity he tried to mask behind a gigantic ego and narcissism who attracted a certain crowd of misfits who let him get away with insulting racial groups that were not his own and who came to power by calling the previous (civil) administration impotent. Remind you of anyone recent?

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago

You're right, I completely missed the big picture here. I already knew everything you told me, but I didn't think about it at all when coming up with the idea. I probably should have thought the idea through before posting it on the forums.

I'm probably just going to go with the " anonymous political rival who kills Hitler and takes his place" route, if I ever do write this.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Morell

 

Check out the substances administered to Hitler. Probably loosened a couple screws.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago

Yeah, Killa's definitely right. It's the fact that Hitler made stupid decisions that's the issue here, but the evil ones. If you're not trying to make it darkly comedic, I don't see much point in having to play as Hitler. You could easily just play as some other German leader at the time who replaced Hitler

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago
Going off what Romulus said, it would be a very very tricky balance to achieve if the idea was a realistic alternate history. 'Darkly comedic' or otherwise just embracing the absurdity of it all might honestly not be a bad approach to take.

The idea of killing Hitler in the first couple pages (intentionally or otherwise) and going on to try and conquer the world yourself really does amuse me. At the very least it would do a hell of are lot more to catch and keep my attention than most other storygame intros here.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago

Honestly, this could actually be an interesting idea for a story. If done properly, you could explore the delusions and motivations that led to the actions of the Third Reich, and explain the seemingly clear logic behind them from the persons in power's point of view. Furthermore, there certainly is a look of room to explore the possible other courses of history for Germany had the decision-makers made different choices during the Nazi period. 

The problem is, however, that these kinds of things are very easy to screw up, or to portray insensitively, or just generally be portrayed in such an unbalanced way that you're either implicitly condoning the actions of the Nazis, or moralising to such a degree that your story gets annoying. Especially if you choose to focus on Hitler himself. It'll be very difficult to portray him as a man both capable of periods of lucidity and insanity, and follow through with alternative histories and all that.

If you want to go through with this story, I'd advise you to choose a different (preferably fictional) higher-up person in the Third Reich, and explore its history through the eyes of that protagonist. It's not perfect, but it would allow you to take some more creative liberty with for example the motivations and thoughts of your protagonist, than if you would choose an actual historical person. 

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago
There are plenty of games out there that are purely about the strategic and tactical elements of wars without getting bogged down in context or political details or who the player character's even supposed to be at all.

Unless your story is going to explore alternate universe Hitler as a character I'm still not seeing why you'd have to specifically make him the viewpoint. Maybe think instead of something like CKII with tanks.

Do we have any decent strategy games on the site, BTW? Real world or otherwise?

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

5 months ago

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

4 months ago

Mizal mentined this in an earlier thread, but I was too lazy to bring the concept here. Portraying Hitler for who he was, a bumbling fuckup with mental health issues being used as a figurehead, while everyone around him twists his racist words and angry rants for their own agendas and starts pushing programs they came up with, would be an interesting idea. Because, let's be honest, Hitler didn't actually DO any of the shit that people hate the Nazis for. He represented it, and he pushed for it, yes, but he's no more evil than, say, that one perpetually drunk uncle that your parents used to cover your ears around, who might've done similar things if he had absolute power and had like-minded assholes around him. Making Hitler a misanthropic clown rather than a diabolical monster may be one of the more funny and historically accurate portrayals we've had in a while.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

4 months ago
I'm starting to think that hilarious bumbling Hitler's largest failing was in missing Battlemage's alleged Jewish ancestors.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

4 months ago

The way I see it, since this is a CYoA game, the moment the first player decision is made you aren't really playing Hitler anymore (because alternate history). If I were to do this I would probably distil it down to a story of man struggling to stay in power. Sure, knowing how history plays out would allow us to make the right strategic and tactical choices on the battlefield but if you throw in the internal politics I think it could really shake things up. Do you divert much needed manpower to a close front or placate civil unrest by building and staffing more extermination camps? Do you let that brilliant general have free reign to stomp on your enemies, force your decisions on him to maintain control, or perhaps even have him killed. I believe that towards the end of the war such overrides of his generals' decisions was common.

Regarding the fear of glorifying or justifying his choices, I believe that can only be nullified by the writing itself. Even if you stick true to the POV of evil Hitler, you can simply describe the atrocities committed in all their gruesome and repulsive nature, then contrast that with nonchalance or pride from Hitler. I believe a strong enough contrast will be enough to hammer home the point that Hitler is definitely "on a different level" whilst keeping narration bias towards his own opinions (I'm thinking something like a blatantly unreliable narrator sort of style).

Would such a story be controversial? I would say so, but then again the maturity rating would probably be near maxed taking into account the subject matter. I suppose the main point of difference from a regular CYoA would be that instead of making the reader identify with the main character, the reader feels more like they're a sort of "director", making logical choices and observing how Hitler reacts and how things play out.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

4 months ago

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

4 months ago

So when are one of you actually going to write a story with a Nazi protagonist?

Seriously, this topic comes up (Trolling or otherwise) like every six months or so, and a lot of shit gets said, but nothing ever comes of it.

If you're going to write one, just do it already. Because if it gets brought up in the forums the only thing that's going to happen is a lot of debate/insults/lulz and nothing will get done.

The end result of your writing will be judged accordingly. If it sucked, we'll be sure to let you know. If it didn't, then you'll find that out too.

And seriously, just go with a regular Nazi, rather than Hitler. You'll give yourself more writing freedom of what can happen to the character in the end (Again, dead in battle, war crime execution, escape to South America, pardon for making a deal, etc) and you can still do all sorts of fucked up shit. If anything, you'll get the chance to directly participate.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

4 months ago
I can only do fantasy so the best I could do would be the story of a short, ill-tempered man sending out an army of orcs and funding them by shoving dwarves and fairies into labor camps.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

4 months ago

I already did that Eternal. The whole "Gnome Home" thing was basically the Holocaust.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

16 days ago
Thread now relevant again. Context, the one weird trick your mages don't want you to know!

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

16 days ago

Well now I'm disappointed, I figured Sharkworld came back with a revised version of his idea.

Though you might have been right about CoG secretly being big fans of Nazis, they just banned a Jewish guy and labeled him a "homophobe" for daring to disagree with the echo chamber over there.

https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/karavolos/summary

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

16 days ago
Oh that COG. Can't get that to load right now, but it can't be as good as I imagine anyway.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

16 days ago
Huh. This guy had really good points for a self-proclaimed atheist, insomniac, autistic asexual. Only on COG would interesting writing discussion about the necessity of pointless romance scenes be a bannable offense.

https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/gay-representation-in-choicescript-games/20429/379

https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/gay-representation-in-choicescript-games/20429/379

Highly recommend these be read instead of Steve and Battlemage's S/M foreplay further up the thread.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

16 days ago

Straight plots are necessary whenever pregnancy is necessary. Thus, I refute him too.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

16 days ago

The guy's last post in that thread actually continued to debate several points in a pretty civil manner and as typical of the place, everyone basically just continued to scream "bigot" at him and they deleted that one completely before banning him.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

15 days ago

Thanks for linking that thread. Now I know to never visit the CoG forums. It seems to be a running theme with them and I imagine every game that doesn't have a romance option for each gender identity and sexual orientation gets wrecked for being homophobic. Just my initial impression.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

15 days ago
Yeah the romance and gender choice stuff is almost required. That was actually part of the big annoyance I had with a lot of the games early on with the site before even before noticing how passive aggressive and intolerant the community was.

The protag and their stable of romance options were almost always these generic templates you stapled the gender and sexuality of your choice onto instead of developed characters in their own right. And all your choices in that area just amounted to a script swapping pronouns around and nothing else.

Occasionally the forums have interesting discussions, but I usually just wait for End to point them out now because it's just not worth it lol. They did get rid of one if the worst offenders a little while back, but it was at the point where ever single writing discussion attempted would get derailed with people getting triggered over gender and representation, and anyone straying from the hive mind was getting 200 year bans.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

16 days ago
Good Lord, why would you link that? That was awful. I felt my brain melting just trying to read that. I want that 15 minutes of my life back.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

16 days ago
Pfft okay Malk was bitching too, but don't pretend like you can't see CHOICE OF GAMES right there in the URL. You know what you're getting long before you click.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

16 days ago
I go there so seldom, I think my brain tries to blank out those experiences, so I sort of forget. Either that, or I think that part of my brain that reads those things turns black and dies off so I'm not able to remember...

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

16 days ago
I too would like an update from @Sharkworld78

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

16 days ago

Alright, I guess an "update" of sorts is in order. I've decided to go through with this idea, but set in an entirely fictional universe. With the state of politics and stuff nowadays, writing about really sensitive historical matters like WW2 and the Nazis is a bit difficult. I feel like writing a completely fictional universe and letting the reader fill in the parallels for him/herself works the best (think of the Freedom Party from Southern Victory). I'd have an obvious parallel character to Hitler, but instead of having a set of historical guidelines to follow, I would have as much room to work with as I wanted.

To be clear - this is something I'm actually working on right now. The world building is almost done, and I'll start writing when my real life schedule permits it.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

16 days ago

The basic premise is going to be the same, however. POV is from the Hitler parallel, with decisions based off of painfully obvious parallels.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

16 days ago

You should make the "I can't believe it's not Hitler!" protagonist a bad poet rather than a bad artist. That way you can add awful poetry in your story for the lulz when he's reciting it to his underlings who all have to just nod and say how great it is.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

16 days ago

Why are your ideas so goddamn good, Endmaster?

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

15 days ago

Endmaster's idea is solid gold. Maybe instead of murdering all the Jews he murders any one whose poetry is better than his.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

16 days ago
If they don't seem enthusiastic enough they get a bullet to the brain, immediately.

But I'm surprised/happy this is still being worked on, most ideas posted about here and up going nowhere and this was more difficult to work with than most.

Sharkworld always struck me as one of those rare competent writers toiling away mostly in silence so I know anything produced will be well above average.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

16 days ago

That's actually hilarious.

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

15 days ago

CYoA From Hitler's POV?

15 days ago

Nah, keep the character as Hitler, it would be much better than some random shmuck gunning him down and taking over the German government at the time.  If you want to make Hitler (the reader) a bit more relatable you could throw his love for chocolate and pulling pranks on his colleagues somewhere in the story.

 

It seems like if you had some rival instead of Hitler it would throw off the focus of the story and make it less intriguing.