Definitely agreed that Agamemnon is stinky though

Apologies for my lateness! Oh dear, this is becoming a trend. I will work on that. 

I had to go back and read through book 4. Odysseus did Not like being called a coward! And yet, here in book 8 he is running away when Nestor needs help. Diomedes has to go press through fighting by himself to help Nestor. This doesn't reflect well on him at all ... 

So far, looks like Odysseus is playing the hypocrite - he talked awful big about courage and being present wherever battle was, but then he ran to hide in some boats. Kinda disgraceful.

You know Swiftfoot, and Blondie, and Flame, and Sparkle / But do you recall / the most famous war horse of all/ 

Teucer does his archery just like I do in skyrim. Shoot, snipe, hide, rinse and repeat. 

No, I don't think Zeus keeps his house in order - nevermind all his weighty, booming threats. Even Zeus admits via Iris that Hera will still more or less do as she pleases, one way or another. In any case, if Zeus truly had his house in order, he could have done more to see that Eris's apple nonsense didn't escalate the way that it did. 

1. I think Hector had a neck wound and was taking the out he was given - even if for just one night. It's also nice that everyone kind of gets a chill evening after that. I noticed Antenor advising that Helen and her treasure be returned to the Greeks to help resolve the conflict. It wouldn't anyway, since Hera wants Troy annihilated. And then even when this offer is made to the Greeks, Diomedes wants nothing to do with Trojan gifts - he calls them entangled in the ropes of ruin. I'm intrigued by this. Diomedes has already had some run-ins with the gods. Is he catching wind of Hera's whims? 

2. I expect some interesting displays of destruction, of course. I'm very excited to see how day two of the duel will go. It's my first time reading all this, so I'm having a lot of fun :) Good for Ajax that he gets the tasty spine meat before Zeus serves and plates the pain he's plotting. I'm curious about that fancy wine they didn't seem to drink. It's described as being so prized that they traded bronze, iron, cows and their hides, even human prisoners - for wine! And yet, in fear of Zeus and his mighty growls of thunder, they pour it on the ground as libations to him. Then they just sleep! This precious, precious wine they give up for Zeus ... who is not planning mercy for them at all. Is this symbolic of blood spilled in vain? Of lives desolated for nothing but celestial amusement? I think again of the beautiful robe laid out to Athena as an offering paired with a desperate prayer ... which Athena pretty much disregards. It's beautifully sad and ominous. 

3. Looks like respect for the dead is the gift of immediate cremation. They wash them and burn them in a pyre. Then they build a mound around it. Soon after, Poseidon expresses indignation at the wall they've built, but Zeus assures him that Poseidon can knock it down again. Is Poseidon jealous of the attention these new walls might get, in comparison with his own work in Troy? I don't think the Greeks were trying to one-up him at all ... not that it matters, if Poseidon is going to kick it over like a sandcastle.

I also noticed that in both the mass burial, and in Hector's speech about maybe sending Ajax to his own burial mound, that the dead in question weren't individually recognized. I guess it is a lot of bodies to do at once, so a mass grave is efficient and all. But they don't even mourn the dead. Priam won't let them wail. 

Greetings Homer Club.

I notice that not only is Agamemnon the one to advocate for massacre, but he's also the one to kill the solder that Menelaus nearly took pity on. Menelaus just pushed the guy over to Agamemnon, who stuck him with a spear. Hm, this is not the first time Menelaus let someone else take something off his hands and decide its fate :^)

Prudence can protect a warrior and save his life. Diomedes is prudent to avoid even the appearance of challenging the gods - he's well aware of the danger. I don't think Diomedes was wanting to battle the gods in the first place until Athena told him he should. At least then, Athena was helping him fight.

I liked the foreboding doom of Hecuba picking out a dazzling robe for Theno to lay in Athena's lap, and lifting up a desperate, heartfelt prayer, only for Athena to shake her head. What beautiful frustration for the audience - to watch a woman plead for pity her city is not going to receive!

Marvelous work! I may be interested in the clam machine

No worries, hetero_malk! Thanks for keeping this book club going. 

 - I wasn't able to open the first link. The second I may open later. 

 - Ares does appear to have an appetite. When Pandarus attempts to spear Diomedes, Diomedes tells him that Ares will drink his blood. 

 - Diomedes is quite impressive in this section, but he gets a lot of help from Athena. She gives him counsel, helps him distinguish between gods and men, and even helps steer his weapons. Oh, and she helps him pick up a rock.The gods are capable of quite a lot on their own, but it's fun to see what can happen when they team up with humans. I liked how when Hera complains to Athena that the Greeks aren't doing so well, she responds "ok let me suit up" so that she can give Diomedes a pep talk about how to be Ares's biggest problem. Then it works!

 - Of course Ares is despised. Both the gods and the humans want war, but war is still awful - just as death and bloodshed are awful. A god literally embodying these things is really only loved by the bloodthirsty and warlike. It's also fascinating to me that the negative fallout of war is attributed to Ares. The destruction, loss of life, the violence ... since war itself is deified and has a face, people can simply blame him for the evil things that war does. He IS war. 

 - I do think Ares has things in common with humans. He has appetites that get him and others into trouble, sometimes fatally. He gets used - If Hera desires a battle, how could Ares not be involved? and of course, humans get used by the gods all the time. Finally, I see Ares getting held accountable for his actions more than I see it for other gods. Zeus, Hera, and Aphrodite all get upset by his violent appetites. Similarly, humans will also be vilified for particularly heinous acts, if found out. But the other gods don't seem to be held with the same scrutiny. Eris starts a problem among the goddesses with an apple (though to be fair, Eris starting a problem is just Eris being Eris), Aphrodite bribes a judge with someone else's wife and starts a war, then she steals said judge to save him from fighting his own battles. And yet, not much is said hardly at all about all of it! Even upon Aphrodite yoinking Paris, the resulting frustration and anger isn't truly directed at her.

This was a fun chapter to read. Lol, Zeus responds to Ares's complaining with "Shut up, I hate you. Go see the nurse."

Sorry for my lateness!! Going to post before reading all the other lovely comments.

 - I think agency is still in here, but I wonder if having a "mindless mind" means that Pandarus perhaps didn't have a very strong will to begin with - hence why he makes a good tool for the whims of the gods. It was funny that Menelaus told a very upset Agamemnon, "Don't worry babes, I was saved by my accessories." 

 - I liked the lines 140 through 150, as it describes the bleeding of Menelaus like staining ivory. It makes me think of when I used to dye fabric (just in a five-gallon bucket, nothing fancy) but the way the dye moved through the water was billowing, gorgeous. To visualize the spilling of blood in this way brings a tragic, macabre beauty to the scene. 

 - Looks to me like Odysseus was still getting things together, and also trying to follow a set protocol - they hadn't heard the cry of war yet, they were waiting on a Greek battalion, etc. Even Homer describes them as standing still, though they were not cowards. I'm finding chaos and confusion communicated in this scene ... technically, a battle shouldn't have happened after the solo combat, and they didn't get Helen back! It appears as though these men are trying to make sense of a rube-goldberg born of the gods. I do think that making the audience take sides and argue would continue to engage them in the story, and make them emotionally invest in the characters, which is clever.

 - I feel like any renowned warrior would hate the thought of someone else wearing their armor after death - especially someone of lower station. Especially if a warrior is known by a particular piece of armor or weaponry ... It's an extension of their reputation. Any warrior might be known by his shield, sword, gun, etc. To see it taken from them in death further rubs salt in the wound of their loss. 

 - Fun to see Eris (Conflict) enter the scene! Yay!

 - Lots of references to nipples in this section. 

Hold the phone. Bluey Cup went willingly with Paris??? I had to go and look this up and sure enough some sources say this was the case - evidently, she had fallen in love with him. But I'm also seeing that some interpretations imply abduction occurred, or that Aphrodite fudged things somehow. If anyone has more information on this, I'd be much obliged. 

I like the included biblical reference. Goes nicely with the celestial themes of this month's issue

I think Daji is right about Paris - he's pretty, but otherwise doesn't come off as very impressive. However, beauty is powerful. Sometimes the sheer beauty of a person is enough to sway wills and turn tides. The concept of beauty itself has had ravenous effects in this work for sure - the contest of fairness with the golden apple, and Helen being selected as a bribe prize (and it works).Some of the older Trojan counsel advisers even suggest that Helen should be sent away, before she may "bring about catastrophe for us and our children in the future." 

I think Helen has had a wild ride. I wonder how much notice she got about being Paris' reward for choosing Aphrodite in that contest. I'm noticing she doesn't feel too highly of herself - calling herself hateful, a dog-face, wishing she'd chosen a painful death over leaving with Paris. Her attitude seems pretty grim. She definitely doesn't like Paris, from the way she scolds him, and she's frustrated enough that she's actually arguing with the goddess Aphrodite when summoned to be with Paris. She's aware, too, of the death and war already happening because of the conflict surrounding her. 

I'm struck by this irony: so many people desire to be beautiful, and yet it has landed Helen in a horrible situation. Aphrodite's gifts for beauty and sensual satisfaction are all around her and Helen is still terribly miserable.

It leads me to wonder what could happen if Helen decided to defy Aphrodite after all. Aphrodite has promised a painful death and terrible legacy as well - would the raging war still continue on the same? What if she made it back to her first husband? Would the Greeks still demand retribution - whether as compensation, or would they want blood?