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Friend and I watched a few movies together and oooh boy. Return of the feels for Loki. His face. When Thor told him "it's always what you wanted" after Loki agreed that it was probably best they never saw each other again. Holy fuck why does Loki have to be so heartbreaking. You can see it on his face that he probably still meant everything he said in Thor. He looked so fucking sad when he said that he and Thor should never see each other again, like he was just waiting for Thor to disagree and tell him that wasn't what Thor wanted. 

Goddammit Loki you heartbreaking little bastard.

I'm not denying he's done bad things (no matter if he was tortured by people to do them or not, which btw is canon. There's a deleted scene and everything, in the comics Thanos got into his mind and tortured him until his mind was basically broken to Thano's will, and he was near the mind gem scepter for a long ass time, which if anyone remembered how it affected the Avengers within literally an hour....(and don't forget the fact that Loki literally just tried to kill himself when he let go of the scepter...it might shed some light towards why Loki acted like that.) Still, putting all of that aside. He's just so heartbreaking. When he let go of the scepter I was silently (maybe not so silently) screaming LOKI NO. 

And just Odin. He is a terrible father! 

First of all, the double standard with Loki and Thor. Thor in the first Thor film started a war with the frost giants and got punished for it, but it clearly was sad for Odin. And besides everyone knew his banishment would eventually end.

And then, if anyone remembers the whole "Your birthright was to die" scene, he didn't just reprimand Loki's behavior reasonably, he attacks Loki in the very spot that'd hurt the most. Remember in the previous one, Loki tried to kill himself because he didn't feel like he'd ever be an equal to Thor in Odin's eyes and that Odin didn't think he could ever do anything the whole "No, Loki". 

And the way he's doing  it, shouldering everything on Loki and not admitting he had any part in this. In this part, you can see Odin just wants to be in the right of all of this. And Odin clearly wants Loki to just be grateful he was adopted by Odin, and it is clear he won't be offering a second chance like with Thor...

Besides that, Odin says that if it was up to him, Loki would be killed. And the only thing that saves him is Frigga's love, and he won't ever see her again. ;~; the only person who shows understanding and compassion to Loki. 

Holy crap I've just ranted about the parenting skills of an Asgardian god. What has my life become?

Anyways, everyone just remember. 

The best boat is DENIAL.

What does DENIAL stand for, you may ask? 

D is for Loki is misunderstood
E is for Loki is misunderstood
N is for Loki is misunderstood 
I is for Loki is misunderstood
A is for Loki is misunderstood 
L is for Loki is misunderstood 

I love love love Loki but I'm not reading any of this because spoilers my dude.

Malk was just gushing about the movie too so I'm going to see it ASAP, just keep having things happening.

Just don't read the first paragraph. Everything else is before Ragnarok. X'D it's basically a rant about Odin being a terrible father and the such. 

Ragnarok just made me go through the whole "Goddamnit I love you Loki" phase. 

And he's sassy af with a lovely~ backstory. What's not to like? X'D

Yeah, even in Norse mythology Odin is an asshole. Kind of like Zeus in greek mythology, but whereas in popular media Zeus is always portrayed in a much more positive light, Odin, at least in Dark World and Ragnarok wasn't portrayed as the god-king that always knows best but kind of a dick king.

-SPOILERS FOR THOR RAGNAROK-

In the movies though I'm pretty sure because of how popular Loki became they actively tried to make him more sympathetic. I'm not saying there isn't a sympathetic character there in the comics, but for example, in the movie they made him triggering Ragnarok as a heroic act whereas in the comic...it was not...

However, even though he has a terrible father his treatment of Thor is in my opinion the inexcusable part. Thor continuously tries to extend his hand to Loki despite the mountain of reasons Loki provides for Thor to give up on him. In Thor, after Loki tried to commit genocide by destroying Jötunheim he pretends to fall of the bridge to prompt Thor to rescue him so that he can stab Thor in the back. In Avengers, during the battle when the Chitauri attack, Thor tries to reason with his brother even though Loki just murdered a friend of his and dropped him off a helicarrier in a prison, and again, Loki stabs him in the back. In Thor: The Dark World, Loki makes Thor think he's dead so that he can banish their father and take his place. In Thor: Ragnarok, he attempted to betray Thor to the Grandmaster but FINALLY Thor actually assumed the worst of his brother and was prepared for his betrayal. And then after that he still lets Loki be a part of the New Asgard group.

Sure Loki had a rough father but he had a pretty awesome and tolerant brother. Thor doesn't get enough credit for that.

-END OF RAGNAROK SPOILERS-

 

True about his treatment of Thor, but I'm fairly certain there's more to his "death" in Thor: The Dark World.

Keep in mind, Loki's illusions vanish when touched, but this illusion was touchable. I think Loki did die, but something brought him back. And maybe he took advantage of the fact that people thought him dead to take the throne.

But I think he went into that situation completely prepared to sacrifice himself and he didn't know he'd come out of it alive.

In Thor Ragnarok when he was pretending to be Odin Thor could still touch him and he wouldn't revert back to being Loki, he would still be Odin and Thor had to threaten him with Mjölnir to make him switch back on his own accord so there are cases where his illusions withstand being touched.

I think it's the illusions when nothing is there like when he creates a fake Loki but in fact there is nothing there, if that is touched then the illusion vanishes but if it's to replace something or someone it still works, so Loki could have been lying there not dead and the illusion would have held up.

That is true. Aghhh I forgot about that one! x'D

Odin didn't do anything wrong. You need to be hard on those Frost Giant Bastards if you ever plan on civilizing them! You have to condition them into not doing shitty things, because unlike humans, they aren't really good judges of right and wrong. It's a similar thing with Mimes, Replicants, Nazis, Weeaboos, etc. Honestly they should all just be glad their parents didn't throw them out when they were born and actually put in the damn effort.

I laughed way too hard at this x'D

Finally got to see this and now I'm going to spend the drive home contemplating just how damn good it was. HUGE leap forward from the first two.

The other movies weren't as great as this new Thor one was.. I'm actually in mourning because D.C. is slowly dying, and it isn't doing that well these days. 

Wonder Woman was the only decent movie out of all the Justice League stuff so far. Not even sure if I'll bother seeing the new one. It's all been so grim and cynical and unfun and if they wanted to differentiate themselves from Marvel movies there were better ways to do it.

I completely agree with you. 

Okay, some thoughts on the movie. MAJOR SPOILERS FOR RAGNORAK ahead! (But you people have had plenty of time to see it by now....)



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Yes Odin is a bad dad, but I don't think Loki is misunderstood. He's got the whole jealousy thing going on and that's understandable, but even if his mind was messed up for all the murder and genuinely sadistic screwing with people's minds on Earth, he's still gone on to continually be such an irredeemable little shit to the most loving and forgiving brother anyone has ever had. Completely agree with all the points @SindriV made there. Thor is a big dumb meathead but a really good guy. Stabbing him is real dick move! Yeah Loki's face during the 'it's what you always wanted part' was hitting me in the feels, but from Thor's perspective how could he have thought anything else? Added to that, Loki's whole thing is deception and if he wants to spend years projecting this front of being heartless and mocking, someone as naturally honest and straightforward as Thor realistically is going to take a long time to see through it. Just look at home many times he allows himself to get backstabbed while presumably trying really hard not to be.

That said, damn, I love Loki so much. Hiddleston does just such a fantastic job with the most subtle details and facial expressions, I have spent every movie since Avengers just wanting him to go all the way through with reconciling and becoming a fully sympathetic protag. (Disclaimer: I have a huuuge weakness here, redemptive arcs for villains are probably my favorite trope of all time.)

So I am basically enshrining this movie as the ending to the series in my ~~headcanon~~ right now, just in case further additions to the franchise suck or kill someone cool. Marvel movies have fared far, far better than DC so far and they seem to have a formula down that only makes a movie bland and uninteresting at the very worst, but they've got some real potential clusterfucks coming up so I am wary.

I said earlier this movie was a huge leap forward from the others. In most ways, yes. It would appear that at the very least they had a real budget this time, which is nice. Tonally it's a huge departure from the previous ones, but then again those were both sort of odd and inconsistent in themselves. It really speaks to the actors (and Hiddleston especially <3 <3 <3) that they've been able to pull off such engrossing and feel-inducing character arcs despite it all.

Ragnorak more than anything reminded me of Guardians of the Galaxy, and it was definitely the most fun of the three, but at a same time I've come to expect a certain amount of gravitas when it comes to anything involving Asgardians which was almost completely missing here. Immediately in the beginning I was like 'huh, Thor is all flippant now' although in his case, I'm willing to just chalk that up to a lot of time spent on Earth and around Tony and such... But a little more sense of impact and a few more serious moments would have been welcome considering the plot is dealing with the loss of Odin and Asgard itself however. This is literally their whole world being destroyed after all. Thor getting maimed probably should have meant more than 'hey cool eyepatch now' as well.

And not really related, but I was just a teensy bit disgruntled at the Bruce Banner situation as well. I quite liked Mark Ruffalo's take on the character in Avengers and now his personality has drastically changed. Being played entirely for comic relief really undersells just how horrific the situation for him actually is. Two years locked in the trunk while the Hulk is driving, and if he ever changes again he'll probably be lost forever. Yikes. Yet there were other characters like that sycophant weasel of Hela's who got to sacrifice himself more dramatically than poor Banner.

Still, the centerpiece of all of these movies has always been the Thor and Loki relationship, and damn do they deliver there. The overall lightheartedness and all the action and crazy set pieces of the rest of the movie doesn't leave a lot of breathing space for them to work out their issues, but both actors do so much with what little they have.

Re: Odin again, I liked what Ragnorak did with him. He was a badass but fairly one note before, and even though his role here was a small one he was given a lot more depth, and retroactively through how often the movie pointed out that yes, he'd been a bad dad and a bad ruler. His redemption arc had already happened thousands of years before the events of the movie, but the way his first instinct was still always to lock away and cover up everything he's uncomfortable with and put up this illusion of NOBLE AND STERN VIKING KING still has been the root of so much shit, including a lot of what went wrong with Loki. (And Hela too, obviously.) And of course he peaced out of this one without actually dealing with any of the fallout. Glad the boys got to have that final moment together with their dad however.

.gifs sadly contain no Loki but I thought the Valkyrie flashback was such a visually beautiful if brief little scene, 14 year old me would have wanted posters of this shit on her wall:





E: You're in luck, here have some Loki:



I should try to find some of Goldblum too, I was grinning pretty much every moment he was on screen. He's another one that does so much with every second the camera's on his face even if he was entirely a comedic creep in this one.

Oh and another thing I forgot to mention as far as major, serious moments not getting their due. So Thor's best friends all get ganked in their like ten seconds of screen time? Does he ever even find out?

I didn't see Sif at all. Looked it up and there were scheduling conflicts for the actress, but I wonder if the plan was to kill her just as unceremoniously.

The apparent excuse for Sif's absence was that she was on a mission that was apparently so important that the end of her homeworld wasn't enough of an excuse for her to bail on the mission and help out. Still, I guess that means she's still alive in the MCU canon and can reunite with what is left of the Asgardian race.

Also, not really relevant to Thor but you mentioned Justice League before, I really liked it, less dark and more focus on "superhero fun" than the other DC stuff. But then again, if your soft spot is redemptive villains mine (or one of mine) is Superman and after he has been continuously more and more nerfed in every single animated adaptation of Justice League the fact that this movie didn't nerf him was extremely refreshing.

Sleeping on this has led me to wake with the tragic realization that Ragnorak was structurally a mess. Still a fun movie though.