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Somehow, I was convinced to watch a few episodes of the new Sabrina the Teenage Witch show, and I find it fascinating. I don't hate it, mind you, I just think it's really stupid. It's not Thirteen Reasons Why in that I watch it purely to mock it, but there's both a fair amount of mockery and enjoyment mixed in together.

One fun change is that in this, all Witches are powered by Satan. I don't know why they decided to bring in Satan, because it raises a lot of questions. Satan is clearly made out to be a bad guy in this, and Christianity is the confirmed religion, but it's all very confusing. For one, they talk about how horrible witch hunters are, and how the Salem Witch Trials were fucking awful. I'd agree with both of those things, but in the lore of the show, the Salem Witch Trials actually killed real witches, who did worship Satan. 

So, in the show, an evil figure beyond proportion exists, responsible for endless suffering of innocent people, yet we're supposed to feel sympathy that his magical followers are hunted? Like, this isn't some nice Satan, he's still a piece of shit. Why the fuck are we supposed to care about persecuted witches when they're evil scum who deserve to be persecuted?

The show can't seem to decide whether witches are evil or not. On one hand, witches are constantly talked about as being treated unfairly, our main characters are witches, and they're supposed to be nice. On the other hand, they're all worshipping an evil god, making deals with an evil god and the Church of Satan itself is corrupt as fuck and very evil. So demons and Satan exist and are evil, but we're supposed to support those who worship him?

One last point is that the character of Sabrina is a fucking awful character. She's a complete Mary Sue by all accounts. She's very talented at magic and can do things like open puzzles no one else could, she's treated badly because of her parents for a reason no one really explains, she's always morally right and she's great at everything, even for no reason. Like, they make her an excellent singer in one scene just to show off to the mean girls, and that's it, next bit. Also, she's really fucking whiny. Like, she can pick whether to be a mortal like you and I, or whether to be a witch and pledge allegiance to Satan. That's a fair choice, but she whines because "She wants power and freedom!" She's already being given a choice none of us get, but apparently that's not enough, because Satan should power her magic and ask for nothing in return, because she wants it, the cunt.

Oh, and it's super sexist for some reason. Like, people casually mention that men can't allow women to have power because they're men. I've been told it's so appeal to the edgy tumblr kids, but I don't know, it's a confusing show.

So if anyone's watching it, please tell me, I'm curious. Or if you have questions, ask. I feel that I alone can't unravel the show in any way and need help to do so.

I have some questions about this show, if you wouldn't mind. I've heard of it but can't decide if it's worth it, as i'm in an Ace Attorney games marathon right now.

First, do you think the show is aiming at a "neutral" world? Having not watched it, i'm curious as if the indecision in regards to the witch is due to aiming at being morally gray, or is the whole theme not handled seriously/creatively enough? Or to put more simply: WAD or bad storywriting?

Second, is there any, ANY brainstorming/strategic aspect to make the netflix show/comics/wtv worth watching? I'm really tired of all these Deus Ex Machina and have been looking for more films, series and literature that have actual good writing. Basically, does this show have any strategic aspect to spells or is this just a bunch of Chosen Ones balancing their wands and winning because plot?

Finally, and most importantly, how high is the meme potencial?

I genuinely can't tell. It seems like they just fucked up entirely. The witches hung at Salem are never in any way hinted at being neutral or evil or anything other than victims, but they worship Satan, who is portrayed as bad. I think it might've been an admit to by more edgy and grimdark without the ability to think through the moral issues.

No, the plot has no value from its writing in anything you'd want to really emulate. Perhaps as an example of writing to avoid, or how not thinking through the moral implications of your world can be fucked up.

Quite meme potent.

Wtf, do they literally just straight up say they worship Satan?

And the Salem witch trials are now good because they killed evil Satan-worshipping witches?

What age group is this show aiming at? I thought the original was basically a dumb kids' show. This sounds really bizarre.

So apparently tumblr edgy show. Can't say if watchable or not after pearls like that Hatred game and Noddim Portant.

My wife was watching this recently though I was only half paying attention to it. I'm guessing its aimed at the teen-young adult crowd.

Seemed like a edgier version of Charmed which apparently they also rebooted (And my wife was also watching recently).

Yes, they straight up worship Satan, saying shit like "Praise Satan!" constantly.

No, the Salem Witch Trials are SUPPOSED to be seen as bad and evil because killing those poor young girls was cruel. However, given that they worshipped Satan, Christianity's true and they were fucking real witches, I don't see why that's cruel rather than the right move.

Tumblr kids, I think? It's hard to tell. 15-25, maybe?

I didn't even realize they rebooted the show until I looked it up just now. I didn't really watch the original, save a few episodes, because I mostly watched cartoons at that time and I didn't care much for live-action Disney shows. At least I remember it being on Disney. Of the episodes that I did watch, I didn't like any of them. All were just boring. That in mind, I wouldn't expect this rebooted version to be any different, not my cup of tea.

How would you rate the show so far, Steve?

I don't know. I genuinely don't. It's not good TV in any way, but it's strangely enthralling. On how much I'm enjoying it, 7/10, on how GOOD it is, 3/10.

I've watched the first four episodes so far, and I'm enjoying it. I'd rate it a 6/10 on how much I'm enjoying it and a 5/10 on how good it is. I'm giving it a more generous rating than you because it's also geared towards a young audience that likes edgy shit, so I'm a bit more forgiving of some of the cringy dialogue. So far it looks like its trying to find that line between being good for young audiences while also catering to fans of the original show that are probably in their mid to late 20s by now.

I was actually hoping they'd go for the "Good Guy Satan" trope or at least make Satan chaotic neutral in the sense that he really wants his followers to exercise their free will and Sabrina would be the one to bring that back to the church, but  they were quick to throw that idea out the window. Now, as to why should we feel bad for them? Well, we don't know how the early witches/warlocks were. For all we know, they more or less kept to themselves up until they were being hunted and consequently switched to an anti-mortal policy thus becoming what they are today. It's still the first season, so maybe they'll flesh it out later. And while the show sets Christianity and Wicca as the religions being used, I'm assuming that there might be some of its own lore that exists solely within the show (at least that's what I'm hoping for). Kind of like Supernatural. It takes from Christianity but puts its own spin on it as well.

Also, Satan's actions throughout the first four episodes can be explained fairly well. In the case with Sabrina, he's pissed because he was promised something and probably didn't realize he was tricked until after the fact - understandable, don't you think? In the case with the lawyer, he already doesn't like mortals so he gave him what he wanted at a cost. It's actually idiotic of the lawyer to ask anyone for something without thinking their would be some strings attached. Also, so far Satan hasn't been needlessly dickish (again, I'm only 4 episodes in). It seems all he wants is for Sabrina to serve him (because she's supposed to become seriously overpowered) and the other witches/warlocks are being dicks about it because they're jealous.

Like I said, Sabrina is supposed to become the most powerful. Mind you, I only know this because I asked a coworker that saw the original show and he said that Sabrina is the strongest witch. Of course, this doesn't justify her not struggling, but so far her getting by so easy has been more the result of everything being handed to her rather than her own skill. Although I'm totally with you regarding the power vs freedom thing. It's clearly lined out that Satan was giving her the choice of one or the other and I figured Sabrina would be able to understand why that is but I guess not. And I think all the hate for her regarding her parents is because her dad married a mortal and that's a big no-no. Also, maybe her dad struck some kind of deal that would make Sabrina more powerful, who knows. That's really all we have to go on.

The show has some pretty clear feminist elements to it. The W.I.C.C.A club is pretty much this. They do the whole rape culture shtick, the men keeping women down, strong female characters, the apple of evil being the one Sabrina would get if a man showed up, etc. It's not so bad that it's unwatchable. In fact, it actually made some sense to me given that I already figured that the ratio of witches to warlocks heavily favors the women and that women were historically seen to be a witch more often than men as warlocks. 

No matter what, the early witches openly worshipped Satan. That alone is to make them deserve to get butchered, because Satan is evil, and the very religious Christians will no doubt have a problem with those who worship him, as to be fair, even I would. So really, the witches deserve it for worshipping Satan.

Satan outright lies to Sabrina about what he's willing to give her, before revealing he wants full control of her. As well of this, he's the creator of demons, creatures that have been shown to be very evil, like the Nightmare Demon. It's also acknowledged that he spitefully burns people forever if they go to hell, which the show confirms is where people go for being not Christian even if they're good people, and Satan does have the power to just not burn people forever.

It's not her being great with magic that annoys me. That's fine, she's a powerful witch. But she's always morally in the right no matter what, and she's just great at other things for no reason, like she could sing to show off to the mean cheerleader girls for one second, and that's about it. 

Just finished the first season.

You'd have a problem even if they weren't hurting anyone? There isn't any evidence (yet) that they harmed anyone. Just that they received passage to the New World, were persecuted, then betrayed. Also that they were trying to lay claim to the land and that the mortals stole it, but again, there still isn't much detail behind what actually led to everything going south. Then again, the only good witches/warlocks we've seen have been Sabrina (kinda) and Aunt Hilda. But that probably has more to do with us not knowing much about Hilda's past and Sabrina still being new to witchery.

Wasn't it Father Blackwood that told her that she could keep her free will when she asked? I'd have to go back and check but I'm pretty sure Satan himself never said she could keep her free will. His first interaction with her is when he tells her "You will be mine," or something like that. And it's not like we can prove that Satan told Blackwood to trick her into signing it since we've seen Blackwood make shit up before. Though if you wanted to use the Lilith example that occurred I couldn't really argue with that.

I started seeing what you meant by her being whiny as the season went on. Now, are you saying how she's always morally right from her own POV or just in a general sense? Because you could say that her attitude of thinking everything should go her way is actually an indication that she's going to become more evil. The one time she was definitely in the wrong was when she performed necromancy in order to resurrect Harvey's brother. Then she took it even further by violating the rules of an already dark and wicked ritual in an attempt to cheat death. Pretty much everyone (including Wardwell) was telling her not to fuck around with it. Ambrose even said that it's more wicked than the Dark Lord himself yet she didn't care.

Yes, I think if the Devil is real, and you worship him and promise to do everything he says, you've no doubt done evil things, but in that situation, you're evil and deserve to be murdered. Worshipping a super evil being and swearing loyalty to it is certainly very evil.

I suppose it was Blackwood, but he's working for Satan and has a strong link to him, so I thought it was clear Satan was sending the message, and Blackwood wasn't just randomly saying something he'd know he wouldn't want to say.

 

As someone who watched the old Sabrina the Teenage Witch show when I was a kid, I don't think I'd be able to take the new show seriously. I mean, I don't know if it's good or not, but... Well, it's kind of like if they brought out a Live Action, R rated Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, where the turtles are all angsty edge lords on a quest for revenge after the brutal murder of sensei Splinter. Most of the show would be focussed on depressing flashbacks about all of the turtles fucked up, abusive childhoods, and on listening to the Turtles mope about how they wish they could be human again so that April O'Neil would fuck them... Actually, forget what I just said, I would totally watch that show. ^_^

Stealing this for the fanfic cont--wait, not doing those anymore, damn.

DEP already wrote it:

https://infinite-story.com/story/info.php?id=2160

The winning ending is fucking April in the ass.

That wouldn't be a new take on it. That's be the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. In the original, they butcher human beings easily, stab Shredder through the chest and toss him off a building with a grenade, and Splinter does die horrifically That was always brutal and awful, it got changed to appeal to kids..

http://prntscr.com/lg7k4f