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AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

I've being making multiple games, approaching the fantasy genre from multiple fronts, but finally, I have decided on one setting, which i've been developing for a while.

Its also based on a RPG setting I invented for Paizo's Pathfinder System (I plan on running the campaign soon).

 

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

"The Great Burning, the cataclysm that saw the power of a God unleashed upon the mortal plane, destroying the Golden Age and plunging the world into darkness. Thousands of years pass and new civilizations carved itself into existence. From Barbarian tribes to Elven survivors, mutated humanoid beings called "Orcs" and the Gnomes, the descendents of the Feys themselves, life flourish.

Yet such life is not without conflict.

The Toruk Empire, a massive expansionist superpower that have recently concluded a great war with the Dark Elves. In the ensuing peace and prosperity that followed, the Emperor passed the Edict of Tolerance, outlawing the persecution of non-human races and fully incoporating them within the Empire.

However this fragile peace is threatened from all sides.

From the East the High Guard (High Elve Supremacist) march to "liberate" their kin from the rule of the inferior races, such as the Human filth and its so called Empire.

From deep beneath the Hallow Earth, the ravenous hordes of troglodytes, Kobolds, and other lizardfolk spill forth to conquer the world in the name of the Dragons they serve.

They come into conflict with ancient Dwarven Kingdoms, the last vestige of a Golden Age long past, who jealously guard the secrets of their technology and magic".

So I got the setting, I just need a plot. I was thinking of including a romantic subplot in there somewhere.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

Sounds pretty cool, your plot would depend a lot of the angle you want to go on.

With most of the conflict being from the different races, you could do a diplomatic (well...kinda) take on it. Have a different main character per race (it seems like racism is quite high in your universe, so one character for all races wouldn't really work). Their ultimate goal would be the domination of their world for their race. With that each main character could have a romantic opportunity.

Obviously though it's easier just to have 1 main character, so instead you could do one of a few things.

A - Have an ancient item (cliche I know) which holds immense power and can eliminate all the races which threaten the peace. The plot would follow the hero as he tries to obtain this item.

B - Have one of the races become the main threat, and attempt to stop them.

C - Go on a quest to find out just how "The Great Burning" happened, and if they could use that knowledge to stop the advancing enemies.

It seems like your story is centered around humans (which is normal), so the hero would obviously be human.

 

What you do depends a lot on the dynamics of your world, how strong is the human empire vs the three threats? Do the three races hate humans as much as each other, or would they ally to eliminate them? Is there a reason the three races waited so long to attack? Do they have some sort of secret weapon to ensure their victory or are they just really confident in their military? Would one of the races rather ally humans than let another one of the three take over the world, or are they too proud to do so?

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago
I like the setting. How long do you want the story? If you want it fairly short I would focus on one main character and how he helps stops the advancing armies. If you want a Longer story have different main characters in each race and have the main character fight to achieve each races goals. You could have some major events that happen across all story lines to give a feel as to what the timeline is. The plot is very dependent on the length of the story you want. Also is there any discord in any of the different groups. The humans without a king? Rebels maybe defectors? Does this story have variables? What race is the main protagonists? What race is the main antiagiansts? Which races are neutral? Is there any lawless wilds. What is the type of magic in your book? Which races have it? Which races don't? If you can answer all these questions then I will help you make a plot.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago
Is that a play on "A Scanner Darkly" the movie and Dick novel? I haven't read this post yet but I'm curious about that immediately.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

To JJJ: Short of, "Darkly" just means ominous, mysterious, dark. Since my setting is pretty much Dark Fantasy, I decided to go for that title.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

Your setting is strong, and could easily be packed richly with history. That said, you have alot going on, its a complex world, because of this, you need a complex main character. This is why i do not beleive that a human protagonist is best. That would be to easy to do, and far to expected. Instead i suggest you have the main character be half human, half elf. This would add enormouse complexity to your character, and give you alot of freedom. Is this mixture of races excepted? I expect not. Fantastic, now the main character has a personaly conflict, and inevitably, an emotional flaw. Now to add more flaver to the charactor, lets make one of his two parents, not present. This can be rationaly explained by the racial conflict that is occuring in this world. Lets say the elven father left because if it was discoverd he had a half human offspring he would be killed. Now lets have the mother die at the beginning of the story. Sucks for him, fantastic for the story. Lets have the mother give a letter to her son before she dies, she tells him that it is for his father, and no one else is to open it. Perfect! now we have a complex character, who is in constant conflict with his environment, a complex world where the events that happen effect the protagonist and a goal. Feel free to use that, and alter it any way you see fit.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

Personal* not personaly, also, a female protagonist in this situation would be great.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

The Toruk Empire is officially accepting of non-human races, since the conclusion of the Dark Elven Wars, but it's difficult for people to forget hundreds of years of racial conflict in the span of only about fifty years of less.

 

Protagonist wise, I too prefer a female protagonist, but that's to be decided. Also, I want my Protagonist to be an independent force, not allied with any of the major factions? Perhaps an individual power as strong as any of the other factions?

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago
I don't know, if you focus his conflict on his race, then it's not as easy to relate or take anything from it for the audience. A human character can be just as complex while being easier to relate to. I'd prefer to see a human character influenced by three powerful people in his life, all of whom he respects. These three people have very different viewpoints. They ALL make equally persuasive arguments about world events and how the protag should view them and in the end, it's a huge conflict deciding which of his mentors he really agrees with. Make it a brutal decision for the reader. The mentors could include relatives, prominent community members, etc.

I think this makes for a way more "real" conflict that any reader can relate to in some way. The differing viewpoints could be over the subject of the races and what rights they should have.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago
Easy to be non-linear as well. Perhaps the protag develops into a politician and his future is dictated by the philosophy of the mentor he most agrees with. His relationship with the mentors pre-decision and post-decision would be fascinating too.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

That is a very good suggestion, and with the set up, i would have to agree.

However, many people have experienced prejudice of all kinds, so they could still know what the character is going through.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago
You're most definitely right about that, but unless he wants to make it a piece on racism (this is doable but not easily doable, especially in a CYOA setting and any wrong move here is big. You can't really use much humor for fear of 'downplaying the importance of racial struggles' which is mainly PC BS but y'know) it's pretty hard to relate.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

If the story is dedicated to racial struggles, which isnt  entirely what i was getting at, then its hard to make the story downplay it. What i was realy shooting for, was simply the idea that the half race of the character is a wall that he must overcome. Whats intersting about racial struggles, is that its all the people who worry about them, that keep the problem alive.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago
I'd say that all of the best stories appeal to some kind of struggle that the humanity that's reading the story can feel something about. That's what separates escape fiction from interpretive fiction. There's nothing wrong with escape fiction but the best plots are definitely interpretive. It's the difference between 1984, LOTR, etc. from regular novels. At least in my opinion.

So if you're choosing a struggle for an interpretive plot (which I'm assuming he wants), racism is certainly an option, it's just not an easy one and it comes with more than it's fair share of dangers. It would be difficult to have a half-elf character in a racist world, then put a whole bunch of emphasis on his father that left him because of racial reasons and then not focus on racism. That's all I'm saying :)

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

Very true, but the idea is to focus on the struggles the character faces, the fact that people hate him for what he cannot change being one of them. Im not saying your wrong, been agreeing with you the whole time. Your idea is much easyer to do, and has potential to be amazing.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago
Thanks bro :)

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

The whole half elf idea would be nice, but perhaps for a tritagonists? The sidekick of the Hero? Then we can have the whole High Elve Supremacist tempting the sidekick over to their side thing.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

If he were half human would the highelves wont him? or would they be disgusted with him? I like the idea of him being a secondary character though, it would alow you to put a little more mystery in the way the character behaves.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

This sounds like a great setting and I can really tell you've put some thought into it, so best of luck in seeing it through!

As for plot, I [i]love[/i] 3J's suggestions, and I agree that a human character would probably be for the best. If the whole point is to plunge the reader into this complex fantasy world, IMO it would go a lot smoother if they started out with a character with viewpoints and abilities they could relate to - you'd be amazed how a little grounding in reality in one area can make everything else feel so much more believable.

Anyway, since the discussion's taken a turn in this direction, to be honest I've always thought it was kind of lame how so many 'non-human' protagonists in fantasy fiction are just humans with pointy ears or whatever. Once you let the reader inside their head it takes away any mystique, it's just 'oh okay so [insert creature] is just like me, but with [insert magical power/ninja skills/glowing eyes/frog fetish/whatever]'. No matter how hard you try to make them [i]really[/i] original, any character written by a human is going to think like a human anyway, so why not just keep the reader guessing at a distance. Less is more and all that. 

Also, no offense to ugilick but half elves/humans/orcs anything always bug the hell out of me and don't exist in any of my settings. Genetics [i]do not work like that[/i], jeez, so why is it so prevalent in genre fiction and Mary Sue fantasies? Who started that overused trope, anyway, because I don't think we can point the finger at Tolkien for that one.

...I guess I blame Spock?

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

ffffffff

I want an edit button.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

Are you also botherd by people who are half black and half white?

3J's explanation of my ideas shortcomings are logical, and i agree with them, yours are not. you are simply jumping on me because my comment has already been attacked. You also are incorrect in saying that a person cannot give the impression that there character does not think like a person. you realy do need an edit button, for the whole thing.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

Additionally your dislike of that suggestion is completly based on oppinion.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

Are you suggesting that black people aren't human?

Racist.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago
Lol.

I still remember when people were claiming Lord of the Rings was racist because all the good guys were white, and Sauron's horde were all non-white.

Same thing with 300. Though that one got homophobic attached to it as well.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago
Wasn't Sauron referred to white before he betrays Gandalf the gray?

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago
You're thinking of Sauron's ally, Saruman. (Tolkien really should've used a different sounding name to make it less confusing)

But yes, Saruman the White was originally his whole title.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago
Thanks for clearing that up for me.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

Actually im suggesting thats elves are human. just a different race.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

Like through the process of evolution they just ended up as our kick-ass cousins? If so I can see how that works, but I don't particularly like the theory.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

sense we are talking fantasy fine, a common ancestor and the like. read endmasters post, it borders on what im saying.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago
Actually there was a computer RPG I had called Arcanum that explained genetics did indeed work like that since orcs, elves and humans all had a common ancestor at one time hence why they could all reproduce with each other. (And why they couldn't reproduce with dwarves or halflings for example)

Naturally elves were pretty repulsed by that concept, but hey you can't argue with science!

I'm actually more annoyed by all the half-dragon characters running around in fantasy stuff. I just don't really see dragons being all that enthusiastic on wanting to mate with lowly humans.

Demons I get a little more, since they're more ruled by lust and are purposely breeding (probably raping) to create more little hellspawns to run amok on the world.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago
About the dragon thing. In a book I am writing about a post zombie apocalyptic world. The man character becomes a dragon brother by drinking the blood of a dragon who willing gives it to him. That makes him genetically part dragon. How do you think that works out EndMaster?

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

Half dragon? that sounds ridiculouse, can you give me an example of this?

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago
Look at the popular game Sky rim. Basically, some versions I have seen have eyes like the dragon and can breath fire. Some others are dragon wings, scaly bodies. There are a lot of combinations.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago
cool: Oddly enough, that game I mentioned Arcanum, that's nearly exactly how some guy turned himself into a half-dragon. He killed this dragon by poisoning it, then he did some sort of ritual along with drinking its blood. I actually didn't mind that concept as much.

So yeah I guess I'm okay with your idea, but it seems like it shouldn't be something as simple as only drinking the blood, I mean if it was that easy to get dragon like powers by drinking the blood then you technically could just get one badass to kill the dragon and everyone else could get in line and drink up at the dragon carcass fountain.

uglick: Most of the examples I'm thinking of are in various video games and D&D stuff. Some young adult fantasy books as well.

Anyway I've just never really liked the concept of all these dragons transforming into humans to reproduce with them. To me dragons (even the good ones) should still be arrogant enough to not want to dilute their genes with non-draconian mates. Well that's my opinion on it anyway.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago
Actually what makes my version interesting EndMaster is the blood has to be given willingly. Killing a dragon won't work. So he had to become friends with the dragon and prove his mantle. Before, he got the dragon blood. Also the ability of the blood effects the powers. Since he got the dragons kings blood it is powerful.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

Arcanum was such an amazing game. I wish somebody would make another like it. (with better combat)

I guess I am okay with half dragon/half elf/half whatever if magic is involved, just like the silly Star Trek stuff would make more sense if those people were made with technobabble.

 

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

The focus is less about race (although you'll still see racial prejudices, hypocrisy, simony, blatant corruption, etc) but about the main character's struggle to become free as he ventures forth on a mission on behalf of the Emperor. He is Amadeus, Sorceror, Witch, murderor and bastard supreme. His goal: To rescue the daughter of the Emperor from the dark forces within the Hallow Earth. His Reward: Freedom from persecution and freedom to teach magic.

They claim Amadeus is a monster, but he is the most human of them all.


 

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

Hallow Earth or Hollow Earth? Anyway, I have 2 things about your story.

1. Sounds great and I would love to read it when it gets published.

2. You should get a job as that movie voiceover guy who goes "In a world where laws mean nothing, and justice everything, he is..... KEITH STONE", you are epic at making trailers.

AGONY: A Fantasy Darkly

13 years ago

Tarnations, I spelt Hollow wrong yet again. Dark forces in the "Hallow" Earth? There is definitely someting queer about that name. Thanks for the vote of confidence.