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When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

When did we decide that intolerance and cruelty were okay, as long as they were directed at people who held beliefs we disagreed with?

When did we become just as vicious and mean-spirited as the people over whom we claim the moral high ground, on account of our so-called open-mindedness?

Yes, there are people in the world who are bigoted and close-minded, and yes, they often use their religion to justify their actions.  Since when does that give us the right to call them names and persecute them?

I say I believe that all people have the right to decide for themselves what they think is right.  That includes the people with whom I vehemently disagree.  Yes, of course I believe that they are wrong, and I will do whatever I can to keep them from enforcing their belief system on others.  But that means I have to refrain from forcing my beliefs on them, too.

No matter how much I hate organized religion, or fundamentalists, or anyone else, I have to respect their right to hold their opinions.  Because that's what I say I believe in.  

And so, of course, this is just my opinion.  For what it's worth.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago
What about when these organized religions kill millions of people? What about when they endanger the rights of homosexuals? What about when they get unfair tax breaks and cause many other fallacies?

The fact is, I have the right to disagree with anyone I want, as loudly as I want. I'm not trying to turn all religious people atheist, but I am trying to bargain for equal rights. When one of my homosexual friends wants to be married to another man, and he is stopped because of something as pathetic as a religion, should I not be revolting and heaven forbid, prosecuting what they've done?

What I'm saying is that, you're right that forcing beliefs onto another is wrong, but I don't believe we've done this, I know I haven't done this, what we've done is revealed and scorned the practical differences between freedom and restriction caused by religion.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

While I very much agree with the fact that Church and State should be as far removed as possible and that homosexuals should be able to get married and have all the rights anyone else has, you're going a little over the edge when you deem religion as if it is the bane of freedom. I completely understand where you're coming from - some sects believe gays shouldn't have the same rights as other people, as if they are second-class citizens. That IS ridiculous, unfair, unconstitional, and frankly against at least Christianity. But just because these sects are incorrect doesn't mean that churches receiving tax breaks are unfair. Many other non-profit organizations receive tax breaks as well as donations, whether from people or the government. Now this isn't the only context, but you are generalizing. Saying that ALL or MOST religions spread lies, manipulate government, etc. etc. is ignorant.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

In fighting the enemy we must never come to resemble it. This is very true.

People should have the freedom to believe in whatever they want. However, this freedom does not extend into supressing other's freedom to live, their freedom to choose their sexuality, etc... ESPECIALLY if they do not belong to the same set of beliefs.

Also: to debate an issue we must not censor anything related to it. However, we must realise what is relevant and never generalise individuals into communities. Stereotypes must be avoided, as they are a propaganda tool designed to dehumanise and attract hate and contempt.

All individuals must be treated as such, based on their actions. The internet makes this much easier due to anonymity.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago
As I've always tried to represent, I do not hate, dislike, or harbor any resentment toward the religious. And I fully do understand that not all religion is bad, but my stance does not change at all.

In the Christian religion, gays are regarded as sinful. That's fucked up. Period.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

"In the Christian religion, gays are regarded as sinful. That's fucked up. Period."

That is a lie spread by the bible belt; the same people who think creationism is more plausible than evolution.

Are you going to believe them, JJJ? My entire family is christian, and they hold the same view I do about gays and evolution. Maybe not abortion, but 2/3 is pretty good.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago
Well, as I've said: Nothing against the religious, just the religion and a fundamentalist Christian is not pro-homosexuality.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago
I read this book called Case For The Creator, and it showed how evolution and Christianity intertwine, and how 'God' meant for evolution to happen. Then again, Genesis explains how the Earth was made...


But people have evidence of evolution, and no one really has evidence that God rose from the dead or that Noah survived one huge flood. It's so hard choosing which to believe...

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

Yeah, I saw a cartoon of God and Jesus.

Jesus: "I hear people are claiming evolution's rubbish"

God: "Aww, I worked ages on that."

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

Being a christian, I know TONS of the self-absorbed, "I am holier than thou" fuckers that call themselves christians. Thie prime example would be my religion teacher. She acts like she knows everything, and I think she hates me, because I always have an arguement for everything she says. I think i'm smarter than her, which is sad. She thinks it's our job to shove our religion in everyone's face, without having a clue what their's is all about.

I told her I think you have to know both sides of any arguement, you have to understand other religions to back up your own arguement.

And she disregarded EVERYTHING I said.

Christians forget about the part of "Don't judge others" and like to think they're God.

Riley

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

It just goes to show you, JJJ, that there's a lot of crap getting thrown across the battlefield, from both sides of the conflict. Those religious Christians who are blinded by dogma take the Bible all too literally. That's the problem. Orthodox Christians - for I can only speak for them - try to interpret the Bible as a riddle almost, and that there is no single way to understand the words. They have a meaning which we must all find for ourselves.

Oh, and what I really hate is how everyone wants to separate religion and science. Why? The alchemists, etc. of the Age of Enlightenment were almost always men of faith. They believed that science was a way to understand and prove the teachings of the faith. In other words, Faith is what, Science is how. And that's what I believe. I like to find connections between God's teachings and science's findings. Because frankly, we put faith in what a theory says to try and prove something.

A great example was from the movie A Beautiful Mind:

"Do you believe the universe is infinitely expanding?"

"Yes."

"Can you prove it?"

"...Not exactly."

"Then you have faith in that it is correct."

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

It has been proven that the universe is expanding.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

http://blog.pharmalive.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/o_rly.jpg

But HOW has it been proven? Through a theory, correct?

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

... A theory which has been proven by it's predictions. True it could possibly be disproved with future technology, but the observations today haven't done this.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

Well, you have faith that this is the best possible answer for the question of how big our universe is.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

I do not. It is the latest and most accurate answer so far.

Come on. Do you really think the scientific method would just stop working because people believe they know the whole truth? The whole point is that results are published openly and can be probed mercilessly. It works well in preventing hoaxes and makes sure only accurate, proven theories are allowed to survive. Otherwise, no advance, just stagnation.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago
Since when did we decide that people killing others are a strong voice of religion? I thought we called them fanatics and were .01% (even less) representative of the entire religion. JJJ please be careful when you start generalizing or stereotyping, you are sounding like the americans during 9/11.


I agree with you Seth, we must respect the opinions and beliefs of others, because we follow/practice a certain religion or belief does not give us the right to impose it on others. There are too many instances in history that prove that action to result in complete failure.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago
I think that (for those of us who are Americans) as Americans we especially need to be accepting of other cultures and religions, because I see so much bigotry towards foreign cultures and religion. How many of us had heard the good ol' "if you don't like it, get out of the country" attitude. I hear that so much it's like a disease. Just imagine where we'd be if everyone (not just US) was like that. Oh by the way, merry Christmas all.

Lol darth, wonder where you got that little both sides of the argument thing ;)

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

YOU FORGOT HAPPY HANNUKAH AND KWANZAA!!

Anyway, it's sad how America, the [supposed] hub of diversity has so much bigotry. It makes no sense.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago
lol. America is the hub of 'dealing with the race problem' I'll admit we've made progress since African people first came here. But with all races, it's a real toss up. It really depends on who you are. A guest on the Oprah Winfrey show once said, "There's a difference between niggers and black people". I agree. I go to a school that is almost half white and half black, with miscellaneous races in it, too. I've met some people who hate white, people who hate blacks, mexicans, etc. One of my best friends is black and I don't think any different of him for it. But then you have the 'gangstas' (white, black, any race) who ruin it for the rest. They call each other niggas like it's a household word, but then a white person says it and they are racist, bigots, whatever. I think they're the racists for using as a power word. Racism against their race? Fo sho, homie.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

Since we're all technically African because that is our original ancestry (OR IS IT?!?!?), race is not an issue.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago
By that logic, we're all technically amphibian too...

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

It's stupid considering the genetic and cultural differences. You can find about 25 accents in the british isles. That said, we all grow up in the same environment and are part of the same species, so any genetic differences are merely skin deep.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago
well wouldn't we be pangaean if you reallywanna break it all down? maybe race isnt the problem in your opinion, but for some reason a fraction of white and black people dont get along well/ could be white people are jealous black people have more melanin...yup thats it.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago
Uhh.. just cuz the continents were connected doesn't mean that we couldn't still isolate Africa and call us African. After all, Africa is still linked to Europe and Asia, and we can still differentiate. By that logic, you must as well just call us Earthlings.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

Calling ppl eartlings or humans is EXACTLY what we need to do. If you don't want something to happen, dont have a word for it. Don't have racially abusive words, dont distinguish between races, ppl growing up wont learn to be racist.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago
I agree, I'm just pointing out the flawed logic hahaha.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

Once again, allow me to bore you with my Martian War story.

When we colonize Mars, after generations of great business, a bunch of xenophobic assholes decide that Mars is "manipulating Earth's economy." So they go on several protests and eventually gain the support of billions of Terrans (it's what they call the humans on Earth, because Terran, from Terra, sounds cooler than Earthling to them) and are against the Martians.

So here, as the author I'm showing how there can never be alliance unless there is a real enemy and threat. The humans finally resolve their racial and ethnic differences because racism has been dead for century and only appears in textbooks that it's time for a united earth, under the leadership of the UN, to fight the Martians.

From there I explain how the "planetary" tension between Terra and Mars grows until a war breaks out, but that's another story.

So basically I said that eventually we could very-well become just Earthlings or Terrans or Humans, but that it'll most likely come with the advent of an energetic space program. NOT NASA, but maybe like the International Space Endeavor.

 

Also, gem, as far as modern findings say, humans weren't around when Pangaea existed. Sorry.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago
Bleh i was just being a smartass XP.

I like the idea of the whole human race becoming one, but we're so many centuries from that lol.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago
It just takes one breakthrough.

And, Anubis is right we always need a common enemy.

Me against my brother
My, and my brother against my cousins
Me, my brother and my cousins against the neighbors
Our neighborhood against the next one
etc

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

Eh, it'll just go from racism to planetism.

And yeah, Earth's name is technically Terra. I use it whenever I can because

a) it makes you look smart

b) it sounds cool

c) it sounds very sci-fi

If you didnt know, The Moon is Luna and The Sun is Sol.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago
Latin is beautiful.

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago

aye

When did we become the bad guys?

15 years ago
I like the name Luna.