Forums » The Lounge » Read Thread

The National Healthcare Act was just passed through the Supreme Court under the taxation clause (although no under the commerce and neccesary and proper clauses) with the exception that the Federal Government cannot regulate how the states spend their Medicaid funds.

I hate to commit a slippery slope fallacy, but it looks like we're taking the first step to Socialism through forcing the citizens to buy into certain corporations. It's not as bad as it could be through striking down the federal regulation, but I'm still not happy by a long shot.

I disagree. I think it is a good thing that everyone has a health insurance, even people who have little money or have a history of illnesses. 

Many experienced doctors have already stated that they will not work under this system. They will retire. As such, we will immediately lose a large portion of our nations quality for health care. You can't multiply by dividing. Congrats. Now everyone can have crappy healthcare. yippee.

This is nothing but a government power grab and the doctors know it. The fact that this bill wasn't stop in spite of this threat shows how out of touch the government is.

me too

I'm really not well-versed with "Obamacare" but wouldn't this be helping regular people? From what I've heard, medical treatment is extremely expensive over there (people getting charged insane amounts for emergency operations). People die because they can't afford medication.

I'm not trying to start a debate, heaven knows I don't know enough about the legislation to argue for it - could you tell me why it's a bad thing?

It is mostly the principle. The government is making people buy healthcare because its "Good for them". There is the slippery slope fallacy that seems to point to this is a step towards government regulations.

Disregard my other post then. No law should be made forcing someone to pay for something. If I'm homeless and need that money to eat so I don't starve, why should I be paying for healthcare if it's goal is to keep me alive?

I'm ashamed of myself for not knowing as much about helathcare- Obamacare or otherwise- as I should. From the little I've read about it on Wikipedia, does Obamacare make health insurance free or does it force you to pay for healthcare?

If it's the first, I'm totally for it. If it's the second, I am totally against it. No one should be forced to get insurance for something if they don't want it.

I have three main problems with the bill. The first is a political issue, the others are moral issues.

1.) In a capitalistic state like the US where we are supposed to have a free market (even though we don't we're supposed to imitate one) the government should not be able to decide what and where people will buy. To paraphrase chief Justice Kennedy: "Just because we need food to live, and so we all partake in the food market, it does not give the government the right to tell us what food or which market we can buy from". This bill forces those who do not have insurance to buy into it in a certain location, counteracting this capitalistic belief

2.) The bill takes those who cannot pay, and makes them pay anyway. This is not a free system. The bill is not saying "here, have some free healthcare", it's saying "You can't buy healthcare? Well then now you have to buy it from us." It still makes you go to the state, arrange an insurance contract, and pay for it out of pocket, even with government subsidies. It does cut costs for the average person, but it still puts a lean on the income of the poor, and it makes the government spend even more, which won't ease our recession anytime soon.

3.) You're punished for not being able to buy healthcare. If you can't buy it, or want to exercise your personal freedom to not buy it, you're taxed for not receiving the healthcare. So basically the message is "Well, I know you guys are having to pay too much, so now you just have to pay us. Still can't afford it? Too bad, you have pay either way." It's also estimated that 21-25 million non-elderly people will not be paying either way, either because they cannot afford it or because they don't want their liberties to be stripped and will take the penalty

Damn, I started typing this around 9 or 10, and thanks to this mouse virus I'm just now done. .

[IMG]http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee476/Bo_Furlong/551629_3655645862957_138814362_n-1.jpg[/IMG]]

It normally works, but just check out the link I guess

Link doesn't work.

I'd start stocking up on medical supplies before whatever state you live in puts the Healthcare act. Alot of people will be doing this soo...

Just saw on NBC news that shopkeepers are laying off or otherwise having to make cuts in order to afford the act's requirements

Well then again it is not the Supreme Court's duty to decide the Fairness or Wisdom of a law but to judge it on its constitutionality.  The Obamacare slips through on a technicality, there is a choice pay a tax or get healthcare. This allows the bill through on the Governments right to tax.

the problem is that it's a fine, not a tax. When you get taxed it's for doing something, like buying items or drawing income, or for soemthing you own. You don't get taxed for not doing something, that's a fine because it's used in punishment. To fine the people of America for exercising free will should be unconstitutional.

I also like how Obamacare supporters didn't even call it a tax before it hit the supreme court :P Obama repeatedly said that it wasn't a tax.

Also: "To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical" - Thomas Jeffers

In my family, alot of us are in some kind of medical practice.  So...I'm good?