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Y'know what's really neat and interesting?

20 days ago
Commended by Mystic_Warrior on 2/4/2025 5:20:51 PM

I've got one word for you: Sestinas. (though Dictionary.com tells me that "sestine" also works)

I stumbled upon this unique form of poetry while searching for... unique forms of poetry. I had no real reason for doing this; I felt the desire to create something a little different from the typical form of poetry— boy, is this shit hard.

A sestina, put simply, is a poem with six stanzas of six lines each (then a final stanza with three lines) that makes use of lexical repetition, which is super fucking cool.

I'll circle back around to how to make these delightfully complex (yes I'm aware there are more complicated forms of poetry, but you'll admit this is more difficult than the normal) poems after a brief history lesson that I think is fucking fascinating, though of course you're entitled to your own (wrong) opinions.

Except you, Milton. No opinions for you.

The word came into blessed existence sometime around the late sixteenth century from the Latin word "sextus" which means "sixth". I'm sure flutter would call all of these sixes Satanic.

The poem itself, however, is credited to a twelth century troubador (that's an amazing word in and of itself) by the name of Arnaut Daniel, who is... French. So Doc, guess there's some kudos due in your direction. You used my art for your pfp so you're alright in my book anyway.

The term itself is denoted as Italian (who Doc is sure the French mustache really belongs to, so maybe they share things often). Anyway, it's attributed to Italy because Dante (yes, the Divine Comedy dude) used them!

So anyway, here's how they work (I've chosen a sestina by Dante titled "Sestina" as the example, so you know it's the OG):
The first six lines end in six different words. It works better if you pick words that can have multiple meanings.

I have come, alas, to the great circle of shadow,
to the short day and to the whitening hills,
when the colour is all lost from the grass,
though my desire will not lose its green,
so rooted is it in this hardest stone,
that speaks and feels as though it were a woman.

See the last word of every line? Now, in the second stanza of a sestina, you use those same words in a different order— a specific order of course. The last word of the last line becomes the last word of the first line in the second stanza, then the last word of the first line of the first stanza becomes the last word of the second line of the second stanza. Then, the last word of the fifth line of the first stanza becomes the last word of the third line of the second stanza, then the last word of the second line in the first stanza becomes the last word of the fourth line in the second stanza... I've lost you, haven't I? Here, have a picture.

Or perhaps this table is more to your liking:

So this is the pattern of how the rotation works. In the first picture, the numbers at the bottom signify the line of the first stanza that the word comes from, and they're in the order they appear in the second stanza. A simple trick to remember is to group together the line numbers that equal seven, then put the larger number first. Or you can remember the "backwards triad" and "forwards triad" (more Satanism). The "backwards triad" in this case refers to lines four, five, and six, because you flip those backwards, then in between them add the "forwards triad" of one, two, and three. It's like braiding the words together, creating a beautiful tapestry of meaning and poetry and glorious artistry— ahem. Here's Dante's second stanza:

And likewise this heaven-born woman
stays frozen, like the snow in shadow,
and is unmoved, or moved like a stone,
by the sweet season that warms all the hills,
and makes them alter from pure white to green,
so as to clothe them with the flowers and grass.

You see how the rhyme scheme works? Now you just do that for the next four stanzas (because they have six lines, they can be referred to as "sixains"). Let's look at Dante's final four sixains in his work.

When her head wears a crown of grass
she draws the mind from any other woman,
because she blends her gold hair with the green
so well that Amor lingers in their shadow,
he who fastens me in these low hills,
more certainly than lime fastens stone.

Her beauty has more virtue than rare stone.
The wound she gives cannot be healed with grass,
since I have travelled, through the plains and hills,
to find my release from such a woman,
yet from her light had never a shadow
thrown on me, by hill, wall, or leaves’ green.

I have seen her walk all dressed in green,
so formed she would have sparked love in a stone,
that love I bear for her very shadow,
so that I wished her, in those fields of grass,
as much in love as ever yet was woman,
closed around by all the highest hills.

The rivers will flow upwards to the hills
before this wood, that is so soft and green,
takes fire, as might ever lovely woman,
for me, who would choose to sleep on stone,
all my life, and go eating grass,
only to gaze at where her clothes cast shadow.

Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.

Now, the final stanza: a tercet (has three lines). This one makes use of the six repeating words in no particular order! As long as you have one of the words vaguely in the middle and one at the end of each line, you're right! This part of the sestina is called the "envoi", which means "send off" in French (unless Maz or Doc tells me I'm wrong). Here's Dante's envoi:

Whenever the hills cast blackest shadow,
with her sweet green, the lovely woman
hides it, as a man hides stone in grass.

I have attempted to make my own sestina, which is both not as difficult as it sounds and also more difficult. It doesn't make complete sense and is obviously not nearly the same quality as Dante's, but I did try; judge me as you wish.

If we had died before today,
Unburdened by the weight the future brings,
Lost to the sun's embrace and fading light,
Perhaps we’d dream of laughter, free from pain,
With no knowledge of the shadows that would fall,
Content in ignorance of what we would miss.

Oblivious to the beauty we would miss,
And all the ways we’d shape the end of today,
We'd dance in fields untouched by winter's fall,
A perfect peace, the kind that slumber brings,
Unaware of heartbreak, sharp as driven pain,
Existing only in the amber light.

A gilded cage of everlasting light,
Or so it seems; the future is what we'd miss.
We'd never know the solace after pain,
The sunrise breaking bright on grief's dark today,
A simple life and the joy it brings,
Like man before their destined fall.

But if no one ever was to fall,
And thus understand the power of light,
And thrive in the strength that crying brings,
Would we even know what it is we miss?
If we had been granted peace before today,
Without the bitter and the sweet of human pain?

Would it be better to flee from sorrow and pain?
If we knew not at all the story of the fall,
And the only thing we feared losing was today,
Could we rejoice, bathed in eternal light?
Would we ever know the treasures we would miss?
Would death be better than the life ignorance brings?

Can there be acceptance in the life that brings,
So much of despair, and so much pain?
But still, with every breath we miss,
The touch, the warmth, the beauty of the fall,
We fight instead for precious human light,
And find the strength to face whatever comes today.

So if we had died before today, what beauty we would miss.
The new day and its light, even as we fall,
The beauty in the midst of pain, the kind only sorrow brings.

I challenge you to write sestinas of your own! Or really any kind of work even vaguely inspired by this form of poetry; like all other forms of creative writing, it exists to urge us forward in our literary endeavors— not to limit us!

Y'know what's really neat and interesting?

20 days ago

I have come to see

What majestic poetry this is

It flows like the blue sea

Or grass within the wind

This font of knowledge can

Broaden a poet's horizon

 

As the sun rises above the horizon 

Its light enables us to see

The wonder around us can

Reveal what a wonder nature is

Our arms uplifted by the wind

Our noses salted by the sea


But what if we cannot reach the sea

As it glows in the light of the horizon

If I could run to it as the wind 

The great blue I could see

What Neptune's domain is

Oh, if only I can!

 

Oh! I wish that I can 

Dip my toes into the sea

But my hometown is

Smoky blocking the horizon

My spirit will never feel or see

The unpolluted ocean wind 


Instead I choke on this foul wind

Travel is something I never can 

Believe is something I'll see

I will never view the sea

Nor the unfiltered horizon

This is just what it is

 

But why, Lord, why is

My dreams cast away like wind

Why is the future a bleak horizon 

Darkness is all I can 

Like the darkened storms of the sea

My internal darkness all I will see?

 

 

 

How did I do? I know the prose isn't great (I'm no Dante) but did I at least get the placement right?

Y'know what's really neat and interesting?

20 days ago

You forgot a lil piece; there's supposed to be a three-line stanza (tercet) at the end that uses all six of the words. It's called an envoi.

But otherwise, you did it all correct, and it's coherent! I'm so glad someone attempted this. Surely everyone else isn't going to let you be better than them here.

Y'know what's really neat and interesting?

20 days ago

Oh I can one day see

The glowing sea and feel the wind

Which is blowing from the horizon

 

Tercet?

Y'know what's really neat and interesting?

20 days ago
Stanza with three lines.
One line = monostich
Two lines = couplet
Three lines = tercet
Four lines = quatrain
Five lines = quintet (or cinquain if it meets other specific requirements)
Six lines = sixain/sextain/sestet
and many more!

Y'know what's really neat and interesting?

20 days ago

So a haiku would be considered a tercet?

Y'know what's really neat and interesting?

20 days ago
Yes! But it would not be an envoi.

Y'know what's really neat and interesting?

20 days ago

Why must I die
Every time I feel
A blight on my heart
The world is dark
I yearn for light
Condemned to be alone 

Why should I be alone 
Why in my own company must I die?
I walk myself into the light 
I cannot share how it will feel
As my tired eyes slip into the dark
Now and forever be still my heart

One last beat from my fading heart
Its’ last skip I hear alone 
Like me, it has ceased in the dark 
Like me, alone it will die
My God, I cannot feel
My eyes have dimmed from the light 

I now walk into the light
I sense stirring within my heart
New sensations I can feel 
I thought I would be alone 
When I had finally faced the die
As it rolled, snake eyes so dark

But it is not dark
I am blinded by the light
Is this what it feels like to die?
I sense a joy within my heart
A pleasure felt by me alone
What is this I feel

I know what it is I feel!
I am where it is never dark
I will never be alone
My Lord on his throne radiates light
Overflowing will always be my heart
Never will I know what it is to die

From the dark into the light
I will never feel again alone
My heart will never again die

 

Y'know what's really neat and interesting?

20 days ago

 Cause an envoi only comes at the end of a sestina?

Y'know what's really neat and interesting?

20 days ago
Well, no. It can be the end of a ballad or an author's closing line in a book. A haiku can be an envoi in the latter case. But a haiku is not, by definition, an envoi. Envois come at the end of things.

Y'know what's really neat and interesting?

20 days ago

ENvoi

ENd

 

Got it.

My second attempt any better?

Y'know what's really neat and interesting?

20 days ago
Envoi is a French term for "send off"
I like both attempts, but I do like the second one more.

Y'know what's really neat and interesting?

20 days ago

Well, I'll give my opinion anyway: Sestinas are pretty snazzy. Here we go:

If I could have turned back time,
I would have done my best to know you
Though I would not have pursued romance
As hastily as I did in those past days
For fear of finding fated failure
And futile pursuit of familiar feeling.

I was not searching for that loving feeling
For it was not the appointed time.
Yet, I was not afraid of failure
When on that day I saw you
And drew ever closer in those days
To kindle fiercely great romance.

Such was our mutual intent for romance.
We chased together passionate feeling
Without any care for future days.
But, we would begin to consider goals and time
And my flaws created disillusionment in you
Leading to our love's critical failure.

My mind ran in circles due to that failure
Having abandoned hope for future romance.
I focused so much on having lost you
That I could not shake that depressing feeling.
I was told that wounds would heal with time,
But they would not leave no matter the length of days.

It took a conscious choice of after many days
To finally choose to focus not on failure
But instead devote better use of time
And not dwell on flawed romance.
I chose not be captive to feeling
And not bank all my hopes on you.

There is a full life apart from you.
I do not regret my mistakes in those days.
I am not beholden to shifting feeling
Nor have I lost all confidence from failure
For there is still a truer romance
In a future place in God's perfect time.

If I could turn back time, I never would, no matter the failure.
I would never restart our romance, not even for love of you.
There is character in not chasing feeling. I labor instead for future days.
 

Y'know what's really neat and interesting?

20 days ago
Your opinions are cursed, Milton. But I'm glad you like it, especially since you don't typically go for poetry. I like how you took a story and real feelings from your life and fitted them into the format; it doesn't feel forced, either. Not bad, not bad at all.