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Look, we live in a world very focussed on beauty. I have an amount of beauty that no mortal will ever achieve. It would be wrong to inflict my beauty upon someone and give them something that they will never achieve. After seeing me, all other forms of attractiveness would become flat and unsatisfying to the average person. Their existence would be dull and unfulfilling. That would be a needlessly cruel fate to bring to innocent ugly people.

You're beyond man. Why bother to settle to their stupid societal quirks and flaws? Forget their shallow pleas and do as you must. That's like quitting your job, divorcing your wife, and selling your house just because your 6 years old niece wants you to. Or letting her drink beer and smoke because she would cry about it otherwise.

I think I have to agree with TCount on this one.

So Sent, you claim to be so beautiful that people will seriously be mentally and emotionally harmed. God himself, El Shaddai, Jehova, Addonai,  The I Am, the Abrahamic God, the one most Christians accept and believe in including myself is so beautiful that when seen he will literally burn those who view him. All of those passages in the bible with Moses or whomever was in his presence had a right to be afraid. Even the angels have multiple sets of wings to protect themselves from his glory.

So, you claim to be magnificent, yes? Show us. Allow us to shield or avert our eyes, or be free to bask in your beauty.

We've been through this Zag, El Shaddai's not real. Fuck, even if he was, he'd have an attractive kid rather than that average-looking dumbass he did have. I'm honestly not entirely sure why you're even bringing him up, but fuck you, stop believing in nonsense you dopey twat.

Due to this comment lacking in the usual Steve bits that are actually insulting, I find this to be completely objective and lacking of any real content. I'm sure you felt compelled to answer because the post contained something to do with a widely accepted god, and religion.

Try harder next time.

Completely objective? You do realize that means you're saying what I'm saying is right, yeah? Like, it's not an opinion thing, but what I'm saying is a fact. Also, being widely accepted doesn't really mean jack shit. A lot of stupid stuff is widely accepted.

Okay, I meant to say subjective, Thanks for catching that.

Beauty varies from person to person. Take Sent for example, most people think overweight people are unattractive but I'm sure he'd say otherwise.

I'd like you to prove that my god does not exist, or any god for that matter.

As for me being 'dopey', I'd agree with you. I'm on a writing site and haven't done much substantial writing.

Assumed as much.

If beauty varies from person to person, God can't be beautiful because no one can see him. Also, Bible says Jesus is an ugly fucker, or at least not in any way attractive.

Any god? I can't do that. If you were to say you worshipped Johny Depp, he'd be your God, and I'd admit he was real.

Your God?  I mean, that's not really how anything works, we don't take things for a given until they're proven false, because that's utter gibberish and life would become a series of picking and choosing as you admit your God has the same basis of truth as Russel's tea pot or the Loch Ness Monster, but thankfully there exist enough contradictions with the idea of a benevolent, omnipotent God that it can easily be done. I'll simply start off with the problem of evil, which is how does evil exist in a world with a benevolent and omniscient being?

I find this to be a little disturbing. Most people forget that there are two powers in play, Good and Evil. God created the world and gave all sapient beings free will, including angels.

Lucifer (also known as Satan or the Devil) became dissatisfied with following God broke away and took his own angel followers with him. Lucifer and his demons strive to cause pain and destruction which is referenced in the bible: "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy" (John 10:10). Due to God allowing humans and demons to live as they please with the gift of free will, evil comes to exist and ultimately reign over most of earth.

Satan's influence on humans began with Adam and Eve, tempting them to eat the fruit of knowledge which they were instructed not to eat by God. 

I could go on, but I have already answered your question.

The main problem with this all is free will. That's why I'm all about enslaving my followers.

But you see, love comes into play as well. Would you rather have someone choose to love you, or have someone be forced to love you (as impossible as that may be)?

Do you need to ask?

*sigh*

No.

Yeah.

And besides with God, it's more than about love. Order and command have a lion's share of the matter, especially in the Old Testament.

Sorry, need to pop down to dinner, five minutes and I'll respond.

Do what you need to, man.

Unfortunately, we're left with a flaw there, as God's omnipotent and omniscient. Moment's before Satan was created, God would've known that if he created Satan, Satan was going to rebel and cause a shit ton of pain and destruction, yet God created Satan anyway. That's an evil thing to do, but God' can't do evil, so that's a problem.

Also, as God is all good, does that mean allowing free will is good and inhibiting it is bad? We easily see that as not the case, as if you let a man murder a kid, we'd say you were evil for allowing that to happen, and if you stopped it, we wouldn't be angry at you for stopping his free will.

We also have the issue of non-moral evil, like babies getting diseases, which isn't the result of free will, but instead things like diseases, down syndrome and all that stuff that isn't the result of free will, but simply the result of the universe designed by God.

We also have many cases of God ignoring free will, such as when he destroys people in Bible like Sodom and Gomorrah, or when he hardens the Pharoah's hearts, or turn's Lot's wife to salt. So clearly, free will isn't too important to him.

I mean if you're not directly responsible for killing that kid, there's no reasonable reason to be yelled at. Granted, you'll still be hated, but isn't not like it's your fault.

Can't tell if you're joking or not, but yeah, if you do nothing to prevent a kid being murdered when you could easily do so with no risk to yourself, it's your fault.

I wouldn't expect someone to save my kids (if I had any) if they were in danger. Also, that logic is flawed. If I do jack nothing, and if I hold no responsibility to said child, how am I possibly at fault?

Well then you're pretty obviously a piece of shit, man. There's really no point in explaining why we have a responsibility not to let kids die to someone like you.

Well, it's not your fault he died, but it is partially your fault he didn't live.

That's the same thing.

Okay, good point. God created Satan as an angel and gave him free will. God knows that he may become the master of evil and the father of all lies. He also knows that he may be obedient, and a magnificent help to good. Should we all have not been brought into the world due to all the evil we may bring into it? Should we be kept for all the good we may do?

Free will does not free anyone from consequences. One of the angels who were with them told Lot and his family to not look back onto the cities, but Lot's wife disobeyed. The Sodomites had much time to repent, and yet they continued with their sin.

As for people with disabilities and defects, there is a passage where Jesus heals a blind man and explains that no one sinned and his blindness was not a punishment: "'Neither this man nor his parents sinned,' said Jesus, 'but this happened so that the works of God may be displayed in him.'" (John 9:3)

No, God does not know he 'may' be evil. God is omnipotent and omniscient, he knows without a doubt that Satan 'will' become the master of evil. For God to be all-powerful he'd have to know what Satan was going to do.

Free will doesn't mean that. If you're turned to salt, your free will has been taken away. Anyhow, God's willing to sometimes punish people bad people like the Sodomites, why doesn't he turn pedophiles to salt? Methinks not listening to God and looking back is far better than kid fucking.

OK, so it's not a punishment. Some kid is born with something that gives them horrible pain, it's not a punishment, so why was the kid born with that?

So you are saying that everything is predestined? That's a whole 'nother argument in itself.

Because of Satans grip on the world he vows to take all the people he can with him. You see, Hell was never made for humans. It was created for Satan and his demons. Satan, being evil wants to drag as many poor souls as he can with him. Also, God does not send anyone to hell, it is their own sin that damns them. God does not want us to sin, due to it eventually just harming ourselves, and others. Pedophiles and all other sinners will eventually go to hell if they do not repent as this is the consequence for their actions.

I've already explained why people are born with defects, and/or infected with diseases. Another point I might add, is due to humans themselves. As you may know pollution contributes to the rate of cancer in people, as does the food we may eat. AIDS and HIV is speculated to have been created due to primates-human contact. 

I'm saying God is all knowing/ all powerful, which means he knows everything that's going to happen. Is that something you don't believe?

God's all-powerful, hence Satan can't do a thing without God allowing him. God could easily just take everyone into heaven, nothing's preventing him.

God may not want us to sin, but he's willing to stop some of the sinners from future Sodomites, preventing their free will, but sometimes he'll let them continue, like Pedophiles.

Also, pedophillia's not really punished by God. Either the pedophile accepts Jesus, in which case he gets off scott free, or he doesn't, in which case he gets the same punishment he would've got if he'd never raped a kid in his life but just never accepted Jesus.

I'm sorry, all I saw was you stating that Jesus said it wasn't there fault. Could you restate this? Also, yeah, humans have some effect on it, but much of it we don't, and that's what I'll focus on.

Okay for this first point, I'm getting a real predestination vibe. I don't believe in that. Yes, God knows everything we will say and do. "Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be." (Psalm 139:16)

But, God gives us free will, seemingly negating this idea that he knows, that he has planned what we will do and say. I have grappled with this idea myself, and have come to understand that God knows literally every action we could do. If you're having trouble understanding that's okay. It took me a while to figure this out. Imagine a coin, if you will. You know that the coin (when flipped) will land on either heads or tails. I believe that this is how God sees each of our potential timelines, as he exists outside of our understanding of time and space.

Okay, God knows that our sin gives us pleasure, if not, why would we continue to do it? If we refuse to repent, he will give us up to our sin and our own sin will damn us. Pedophiles are no exception. If a sinner does not repent and become baptized, they will face the second death.

Jesus was basically saying no one did anything to deserve a defect, but it was placed so that the blind man could be healed and bring glory to God.

Unfortunately, what you've reached is a contradiction. How can free will exist and God know everything? I was going to get to this sooner or later, but it's good we've reached it now. You see, in the coin analogy, I know what could happen, but I don't know what will happen. If God doesn't know what will happen, he's not all knowing, and doesn't know what you'll do. You say yourself God knows what will happen, before saying God instead knows every action we could do, but doesn't know which one we'll pick. It's a contradiction, and proof against God.

You haven't dealt with why God stops some sinners through killing them, Sodomites, and yet allows others to continue.

Well yeah, if sinners don't repent they get sent to hell. That doesn't change the fact that if I were to start raping kids, there's really no additional punishment. I'm getting sent to hell either way.

OK, now that makes sense for that blind dude who was healed, but the vast, vast, vast majority of people aren't healed of their defects.

Hmm clearly our beliefs differ in places. I've been brought to think of Hell as a mere graveyard. Not a place of torture and haunting (as fun as that'd be) but just a place for any soul that dies and where those unfit for resurrection stay.  I should add that I don't quite think of it as a physical location, but as a state of existence, practically equivalent to death.

That wouldn't be 'eternal punishment' or 'lakes of fire'.

Hell isn't different from Lakes of Fire. Death is eternal. Block of access from God would be the punishment, but I suppose if you're an atheist, it's not gonna faze you much before you die. I have a rather simple view of how the wicked and righteous are judged.

Love God? Good person?

Cool. He's coming back. Welcome to the club.

No God? Good person?

Seems like a nice fella. Let's get to know him.

Anti God? Good person?

He's okay. But if he isn't gonna realize who the law of the land is, we got nothin' for him.

Love God? Shit person?

Uh no... If his love for me isn't gonna help anyone else...pass.

No God? Shit person?

Nah. Dude's an asshole.

Hate God? Shit person?

Ha!

T-Count?

Hell yeah! Let's give him omnipotence! That guy rocks!

Well then, you're clearly just pulling shit out of your ass and making up whatever feels good to you.

How so? From what I know, nothing here contradicts or strays from anything in scripture or the like.

Err Also I meant to say Hell IS different from the lakes of fire

John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Still don't see any contradictions with what I said. In order to love God, you gotta believe in him. Once you do, you live for eternity under the reign you accepted. Grand. Otherwise, you die when you die. Like I said. Generally, you don't get baptized to a church until you achieve a certain lifestyle they approve of, so when you do get baptized, you usually got the "Good Person" part down (unless you go to a shit church like the WBC or something line that).

No, that's absolute bullsiht. Getting baptized doesn't usually mean you got the good person down at all, God says if you believe in him and get baptized, you're saved. Neither of those two things means you're not some scumbag like a slaver or a rapist or whatever.

Those who don't believe are condemned, even if they're good. There's no "Let's talk to him," coming from God.

What is it you find wrong with the Western Baptist Church, can I ask?

Ideally, someone's who's baptized is gonna live more or less a morally decent life. Not always, lots of Holy Joe's are gonna be hypocritical and just do things for status and show. And it's not like you're gonna take a dip in your pool one day, sign a hymn and ascend to heaven. A real genuine baptized person is gonna need more than just that he got his hair wet. If he gets out done one day, and then totally acts like an arse for the rest of his days, I doubt that baptism is gonna seem very valuable.

No God refers to those who never gotta learn bout him. And it's been said a chance still exists still exists for those folk if they're willing to take it up. (I'd have to look it up to reassure, but I believe it's supposed to be a thousand years or so after the Rapture where they get to prove themselves.)

Oh and I referring to the Westboro Baptist, but I'm sure you knew that, you clever scamp you.

You can doubt it all you want, the scriptures say otherwise, that Baptism and believing in Jesus will do. All Christians sin somewhat, some of them sin a hell of a lot and fuck kids, that doesn't change the fact that they truly believe and love Jesus and were baptized.

Where has it been said? Also, not entirely sure what you're saying here. So those who had no God or the wrong God but were good people and heard of Christ are going the same place as the rapists, or not?

Fuck sorry, I meant Westboro Baptist Church. Anyhow, same question.

Well I can't quite see that. Really though. Not too many Christians I know have a basement full of kiddies (not that I know of), and the more religious ones I know are usually all about bettering their morals and whatnot. As for the rapists, God help them. (Personally, I wouldn't let em in my house if I knew what shit they did but I guess Heaven's about forgiveness and all, so I guess if you're devoted to the right guide, there's nothing that can't be fixed.)

This is the best thing I could find: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/what-is-judgment-day-1000-year-reign/

And yeah they are. Not so much as a matter of you're an awful person, more so, you died of natural causes, but since you're not devoted to my law, you don't got a place in my kingdom.

I'm not as much of a cunt as you think I am.

Are you seriously disputing there are any Christian kid-fuckers? There are. You can tell me all you know is nice Christians, but that means nothing. I'm not sure what the hell God help them means, but since he's letting them into heaven, I guess he is, in your religion.

Alright, so you don't really have any scriptures to back what you're saying. This guy himself only says

So no 'Let's get to know him' for some nice guy who wasn't anti-God, just didn't believe, only punishment. Terrific.

I highly doubt that, and that's not a reason for not liking the Westboro Baptists.

No I believe there are. I'm just saying it can't be common, but I wouldn't know. But yeah I'm hoping that any rapists that don't go to Hell at least get something receiving extreme therapy and reform their kid-fuckery ways.

There are scripture links on the page itself. And yeah that's how it is. He's just gonna have to enjoy life if he can. He likely won't even perceive it as punishment so much as a natural process.

Westboro Baptists are bad. And that's bad. Bad is bad.

I don't care if it's common, the point was you were wrong, Love God, Shit Person, still going to heaven.

Yeah, but the page specifies that the deeds of the dead don't matter. Alright, so 'No God, Good person' is Nah, dude can fuck himself and burn in fire forever, not 'Let's get to know him'.

Alrighty then, that's not an argument.

A shit person that can improve! Of course now if he still refuses to change, that'd be disobedience, frowned upon, and sure to get him screwed.

That No God person gets resurrected on Judgement day. In that millennium, he pretty much chooses whether he wants to serve or not. It pretty much hinges on what hes like then.

Well once he's dead he's in heaven, so I doubt he's able to do much kid-fucking. Anyhow, you were wrong, not much more need to delve into it.

Again, you've not shown evidence. I have, however, shown evidence that those who didn't believe in Christ, in other words the majority of humanity, are going to have to burn forever.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.biblegateway.com

 

/passage/%3Fsearch%3DRevelation%2B7%26version%3D

 

NIV%26interface%3Damp

That's just to clarify that technically Heaven itself is only for a selected few. The rest just get reborn on Earth (ie the meek will inherit the earth). But that detail aside, regardless of whether or not he can, he is gonna be judged and he's gonna hafta repent at some point. Not starting to repopulate the earth with a rapist.

I think I proved my point. But you're not entirely wrong here. "Burning forever" isn't how it's gonna go down, but yeah the ones who don't believe simply won't receive.

Sorry, the link doesn't work for me.

Yeah mobile. Sorry

Can't you just tell me the verse?

Yeah sorry. It's kinda insignificant but here ya go

Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

Just pretty much meant to show that there was a specific number going to heaven rather than the popular belief that all Christians go there, but same dif for our intends and purposes

Cheers

Anyhow, you've got a vague passage from one of the most symbollic parts of the bible that. I don't particularly care if the Kingdom of God is heaven or on earth, because either way, the rapist is getting there, so it doesn't really have relevance to my point. Interesting quote, though, it's interesting seeing other Christians trying to explain it away.

Also, I'm not entirely sure how we put down the burning forever topic, but I don't recall you putting an argument for why hell isn't eternal suffering in fire.

I guess that's more or less where we started. But it doesn't really matter. I can't really recall anything from scripture from the top of my mind; it's more of school of thought thing. Eternal fire sounds more like biblical metaphor exaggerated for the purpose of having people convert out of fear. From a practical standpoint, I just see hell as death. But whatever viewpoint, it's the same really. It's Hell and it sucks.

Eh... not really. We started with you saying the shit God believers are told to fuck off, which we've agreed is bollocks.

In regards to fire, the bible says at several its fire. Strange that you think your holy book contains false shit like exaggerations, but whatever. If you exaggerate nothing, you don't get torture. If you're going to say that people aren't getting tossed in lakes of fire and that's not their eternal punishment, you're really just going against scripture.

Exaggerations meant more so things churches and crusaders do, but yeah there are some outlandish metaphors in there. And just because I don't take it literally for each word doesn't mean I'm going against it.

Eh, no, but to take "People will be throne in lakes of fire and be punished forever" and get "People just won't be with god" definitely is.

'Cept when it's not.

Not being with God is seen as the punishment and I feel fairly confident that the lakes are metaphorical.

You can say they're metaphorical, but you have no evidence for that. You might as well say that it was all metaphorical. The Bible says people suffer, and says they're tossed in flames continuously, and there's no evidence that its metaphorical. 

Well if that's what you make out of it.

Again, not really what I make of it, you're just quite clearly choosing to interpret the bible in a way it clearly wasn't meant because the literal interpretation is horrifying to your modern sensabilities.

Sure...

You are mistaken. There are two final places for afterlife, and one temporary one. You already know about Heaven and Hell, with Heaven for the righteous and Hell for the sinners, but this third may be what you are thinking of.

Contrary to popular belief, no one is in Heaven or Hell. Those who have passed reside in a sort of limbo, like a spiritual waiting room. Those who are on their way to Heaven perceive this place as a paradise, resting and lounging until Judgment Day. Those who are on the path to Hell are asleep, and will awake when it is time to be judged.

This place may be referred to as Hades, but as Jesus forgives a lowly thief for his sins in his last moments, he calls it paradise. 'Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."' (Luke 23:43)

Um is this in response to me? I cant tell with that big gap.

It's a response to you saying hell's a graveyard without God where no torture takes place.

Oh.

Haha, no. I said Hades or Paradise is a graveyard where no torture takes place. Hell is the flaming pits of punishment and damnation everyone is familiar with.

No, I meant a response to Temp saying that, as in you responding to when he said that.

Oh. My mistake.

I'll assume by no one you mean no human. Cause Father in Heaven indicates that someone's up there.

Also dead is dead. I'm not sure how one can perceive anything one way or another seeing as "...the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing..." Ecclesiastes 9:5

And because I perceive Hell as a graveyard (and I'm not the only one ( https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/what-is-hell/)) the notion of the sleeping ones waiting till judgement pretty much to me means that anyone who dies is gonna be on that path except for the few that I mentioned earlier about the 144000 destined for Heaven specifically. The rest simply live on earth . As for them, I don't know if they are in a paradise before they go to heaven but I'm not seeing any reason I should believe that. What I know to be Paradise is that place on earth where all the resurrected go.

As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah,But the earth he has given to the sons of men. Psalm 115:16

Pretty much saying heaven's for God and spirits while pretty much the majority of humans are gonna live on the same ground Adam and Eve did.

Also can I say how much I hate mobile? Had to retype this too many times.

Well, this is a nice surprise.

Oh, you're back.

Y'know, I Iike discussing these things with you.

Yes, this is good. Terrifically, as soon as you left Temp stepped in, and as soon as Temp left you came back. It's working out pretty well.

Here's the real shit about God.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvlacSB3HAQ

I can't decide if these kinds of arguments are predictable and boring in their own right, or simply because they're always preceded by Steve going 'ooh! I bet I can get [name] to argue with me about [thing]!'

This one I didn't even engineer, Zag just started talking about God.

Zag, put up a trigger warning for Steve next time. I think a priest touched his dingle. (It would explain a hell of a lot.)

I'll be sure to. You're right, it would explain a lot. He's referenced pedophiles like four times.

I mean any argument based on interpretations and shit is boring for a spectator. What we need is more insults, threats, violence. Like the Crusades.

ey boi that mess was jacked up