I'm writing a story about a prince leading a rebellion against an empire to take back his birthright. Do you have any tips for writing this kind of story?
I've always thought society's obsession with kings and the true heir to be a bit weird. In a time where "Democracy", "Equality" and "The American Dream" hold true, the idea that we fantasize about a world where we're ruled over by a group of people born better than than the common rabble who are naturally superior, and those who try to take power are better, and disrupting this line of superior people being born into power is seen as evil and we idolize the true heirs. I mean, it made sense in Shakespeare's time where we actually thought the royalty were chosen by God, but now that we know that's not true it's weird that it persists so strongly. If the true focus on your story is rebellion, maybe change it up a bit.
As for rebellion stories in particular, really besides the generic writing advice of work as hard as you can at it and put in time, I'd really have two things. Add a bit of moral ambiguity to the rebellion, firstly. So often, the rebellion is a glorious thing, good vs evil, when it shouldn't be. The guards the rebels fight shouldn't all be corrupt, cruel and greedy, many should just be doing their jobs. The rebels, like faction in existence, should do evil things, and the empire should have benefits. Rebellions aren't good vs evil, they're order vs chaos. Sure, the chaos hopes to birth a new order, but they're still a chaotic rabble.
Secondly, make the rebellion multi-factional. The only thing that binds a rebellion together is being against the current king. Some will want to replace him with the next in line, some will want to put in democracy, or put their own person in power or use a democracy. Some will want to replace the cruel leaders, some will want to improve the system and some will want to completely transform it. Having the rebellion be completely the same would be both unrealistic and boring, deriving the chance for internal struggle to arise.
Alright, thanks, I'm already getting some ideas.
Any extra tips from the fact that it'll be set in a fantasy universe with magic and (a few, not many) monsters?
Tolkein-esque Fantasy with sentient species other than human, or only humans?
Humans, Elves (and Half-Elves), Werewolfs and Dragons. I think that's all the races I have in mind.
Racism and Xenophobia is always fun to play around with, so that could be an important element. The Elves want to destroy the human empire and crush its military strength for years of persecution while the majority humans obviously don't want that. How you play with it will be quite fun. I mean many times the racists will have a points. People might hate the Werewolves for being brutal, uncontrolled killers, which if many are, means they might have a point. How the rebellion or rebellion deals with racism could be interesting. I mean, if the empire's actually pretty non-racist while the rebellion like in Skyrim it could be interesting.
Don't worry, I have plans for this: (Basic gist is that Elves are used as magic scientists for low pay, half-elves are research guinea pigs and werewolves are cheap labor).
I guess I should go into a bit more detail over what I have written and planned:
King and Queen are assassinated, whole kingdom mourns (Elf king and werewolf queen show up at the funeral, dragon kind sheds a tear as well). Baby prince/protagonist is fine.
King's brother appears, takes over for a while, kingdom is mostly fine for a while.
Emperor invades, prince flees with middle age knight to a small village.
Prince is raised in a kind, caring household with good friends. He then finds out about how the empire is increasing taxes and making life harder for other races. Being a Good Person, he wants to change it.
Prince turns 14, finds out about birthright and lineage, and starts the rebellion with a few of his good friends. From there I just have a few setpieces:
Stealth invasion of a magic laboritory
Discovery of the Demon Potion (a magic elixer that induces extreme rage and supernatural strength in its drinker)
Battle in the forest of Elves
Elf king bequeths his ancient spelltome onto our protagonist, who gives it to one of his allies
Journey to the Wolf Caves
Werewolf queen gives enchanted lance, given to another ally
...and that's about as far as I have planned.
If Elves and Werewolves are discriminated against, I question why their respective kings give a shit about the human royalty dying. Also, who is this empire who invades?
They only get discriminated against AFTER the empire invades.
I was thinking they were demons disguising as humans, but only the Emperor, his generals and a noble or two. The rest (a few Dukes, Counts, Viscounts and Barons) are humans.
Who is this empire?
Emperor Ironwhyte: The emperor. A seemingly calm ruler, but nontheless ruthless. He has dozens of contacts througout the kingdom, ready to kill enemies while making it look like accidents.
General Klaus: The Mage General, a gifted magician capable of high-level magic. He specializes in mental manipulating spells, making him an adept spy.
General Chulain: The Knight General, and captain of the Empire's army. He is adept with multiple weapons, and incredibly strong.
General Gale: The Shadow General. Controls the Empire's intelligence network. Leader of a highly efficient group of spies and assassins. He himself assasinated the king and queen. According to rumor, nobody has seen his face.
What empire, though? Are there really two huge human factions that haven't combined? Why are they separate? Why hasn't the empire already invaded?
They're actually demons disguising as humans, those four. They're planning on absorbing negative emotion from the general populous to rip open a gate to Hell and release all their friends.
No, who is the Empire? Are you saying the empire is made up of only four people?
Well, no, but those are the primary leaders of it. Basically, they just turned an existing kingdom into an empire.
So again, there must have been two kingdoms. First, how did the demons take over the first empire, and why was the first and second empire separate? Why hadn't they combined to take over the other species? What were the differences that were so harsh they prevented combination?
This is getting us nowhere.
There is no second kingdom/empire that invaded, the demons just appeared, took over, and turned the kingdom into an empire! It's that simple!
How did demons just take over? The story makes no sense. Four demons could not take over a kingdom!
They could be magic demons.
Magic, man. There's endless possibilities. They could have the power to make everybody so stupid that they wouldn't notice that a literal devil is ruling over them.
In which case you have an over-powered villains who can't be defeated, with "Magic!" filling in plot holes in a fashion that is ridiculously cheap.
Hey, I'm not the author. I was just throwing ideas out there.
Yes, and I'm explaining why your ideas are bad.
That could be part of the story- the hero does everything in his power to stop the evil Empire, but realizes in the end just how powerful and omnipotent the bad guys are and eventually just accepts his fate. Kind of like 1984.
So a story where nothing happens, you have no agency despite being in a CYOA and you accomplish nothing.
I mean, it's a story about a rebellion with an unbeatable villain at this point. Seems just disappointing, with your only options being die, surrender or flee.
A lot of stories are about an unbeatable villain. Take Death Song, for instance.
I suppose you're right. If the writer wants to turn it into a depressing romp of failure it could be done well.
The hero could achieve several small success, which seem significant to him but really mean nothing in the bigger picture. There's plenty of agency, this is just one path I'm suggesting.
Planning something like that: Michael kills Chulain by thinking something along the lines of "I will save the people you have cause so much suffering! I will protect them! I will protect my friends! And I will make this world a better place!"
No, apparently it's only one kingdom.
There is no empire. The demons transform the kingdom into one, apparently, rather than an empire invades. I think.
So how did the demons take over?
Gale killed Michael's parents, Michael's uncle, Otto, took over for a few years, the stress was too much, Ironwhyte asked him to... what the word? Recede the throne? That. And then Ironwhyte took over.
Why would Ironwhyte give the throne to some random people?
To appear less strange. Basically, with the way he set it up, it looks like he had the official blessing of a member of the royal family. It looked like Otto bequeathed him the throne rather than him just taking it.
So hang on, they stole the throne but covered up there takeover to make it look like they were given it? That's not how thrones work. If the current ruler steps down, it's given to the next in line. The king can't just give over power to some unknown entities.
Not necessarily. Look at Hamlet. There, the uncle was the next in line rather than the son, as was proper in Denmark. Father to son isn't always the way it happens.
Oh yeah, you're absolutely right. It honestly makes no sense.
The demon could pretend to be a long-lost relative or something like that. It's weak, I know, but this entire story seems weakly constructed in the first place.
Yeah, but long lost wouldn't be in line for the throne. Yeah, the story should probably be thought up again. I mean, there's still a lot of potential in the whole fantasy rebellion thing.
So you're saying it's bad and terrible and I'm an awful writer and should just give up?
No, he's not saying that at all.
I don't have much planned, but I know that the first three are going to be fights. But I'm not sure about Gale.
i haven't finished reading the entire discussion yet, but I've gathered enough to say that I've seen this story plot before. There is a cyoa app in the google play store that has a story similar to this. there are 5 kingdoms and then the iron impire. the queen of one of the 5 kingdoms brings the rulers of all of the 5 kingdoms together at her castle to attempt to talk peace so they can unite in their battle against the iron empire. most everyone agrees except one. this king decides that the only way they can defeat the iron empire is if there is only one kingdom. him and his son then, along with an army they managed to sneak in, kill every royal in the place except the queen's daughter and a prince from another kingdom, if you choose to save him that is. the princes turned exiled queen escapes the slaughter along with an old knight and hid away in a monastery. she then desides it is time to rise up and goes about raising an army to take back her kingdom.
the plot you have described is basically the same thing, except for a few minor details, with elves, dragons, demons, and werewolves thrown in.
by the way i don't recommend the app. you have to use keys in order to continue with each chapter and you only get 1 key ever 3 hrs with a max of 2 at a time. you also need a shit ton of diamonds to partake in any of the really important story choices, and you only get 15 to start with 1 every time you complete a chapter. story's were decent but the mechanics were garbage.
So you're saying that on top of this being unoriginal, the app that it was cribbed from is shitty on top of it all?
Just keeps getting better. Lol.
What's the app anyway?
I have never heard of that before. Any similarities are definitely unintentional.
Azure that's like me writing and publishing a book that has the same plot as game of thrones, and then telling the judge preciding over the copyright infringement hearing, "I've never read the book, any similarities are definitely unintentional."
You're lucky I like you EndMaster. I had already deleted the app, and had to go find it again. The app is called Choices: Stories You Play.
Oh by the way, did I mention that if you mess up and want to start the chapter over you have to spend another key to do so. Of course, you can always purchase keys and diamonds.
I would like to mention that the story I was referencing sounds like something you would write EndMaster. The Bloody King, as he later became known, was able to sneak an army large enough to take over the castle, because the queen's sister liked to sleep around. Her latest lover was one of his spies. This spy tortured the location of a secret passage into the castle out of her, gouged her eyes out and everything, then killed her.
He has a formal education, he's helped around a farm, and he has experience with a sword fighting off wild animals (the biggest thing he's done is fight a bear, however). He's not a hopeless moron. He knows how to ride.
Or in the case of our hero, trained by an ex-knight who is good with weapons while having worked on a somewhat labor-intensive farm that builds muscle quite well.
They start in a small village that has a small population. They have they advantage of being a stealthy group with a small amount of members.
Did I mention that the knight who raised him also helps? And that the Elf king and Werewolf queen are Good People with Good Intentions?
I mean, everyone in the world had good intentions, so that doesn't really make them unique. Hitler had good intentions.
I don't think wanting to exterminate the Jews and creating a slave labor state in the east are based off the best intentions.
Obviously it was. Do you think people just think "I'm evil, I'm doing this for evil reasons?" He saw the Jews as an inferior people who hurt society, so they were to be exterminated. He saw the East as immoral so thought by enslaving them (If you say so, I've never heard this) he'd have a labor force that could work for the betterment of man.
You've linked to an article about expanding the German Reich, nothing about enslaving Asians.
When I said "east", I was referring to Slavs- aka Eastern Europe. Part of the ideology of lebensraum was that Jews were to be exterminated and Slavs were to be slaves for their German masters.
Ah, my apologies. I just naturally connect East with Asians. Anyhow, that doesn't change the fact that Hitler thought they were inferior and it was for the greater good they were enslaved or disposed of for the German people.
If his intentions were to do all of that for the sake of the Germans, you could argue that he had good intentions for his people but not for anyone else. Is wanting to commit genocide against a group of people having good intentions towards them?
No, but sacrifices must be made. He had good intentions for doing what he believed was for the best. He saw the races he genocided as evil, so destroying them for the sake of good, German people was the moral thing to do.
I guess he was acting with good intentions with his own sick definition of "good".
Well all definitions of good are subjective in the end, but yeah, he was. So again, everyone has good intentions.
In the end, Hitler is a Chaotic Good person. Willing to do what they believe is right at all costs.
Hitler wasn't chaotic, Zag, he was a fascist, and everyone wants to do what's right. The world is a little more nuanced than DnD in real life.
I'd also like to note that Michael receiving these weapons directly follows major fights in those regions against the empire in which they prove their strength and force the enemy to retreat.
That's not what I meant.
Elf king Leif: "If I give you this powerful spellbook, will you save my people?"
Prince Michael: "Sure. I promise."
Leif: "A chip off the old block. Your parents would have said yes, too. My daughter, Flora, wishes to help you. Take care of her."
Michael: "It's always good to have extra help. Thank you, Flora."
Werewolf queen Lycia: "Take this lance. It will help you save our people."
Michael: "Thank you, great queen." *Bows*
Lycia: "No, thank you. My son, Lucian, is itching to fight. He is a great warrior, he will indded help you."
Michael: "It is a great honor. Many thanks, Lucian."
I mean, that's not even with good intentions. Why would you trust some random kid with your spellbook just because you liked his dad? It's basically like saying your father's actions mean something of you. Why haven't they given it to their own champions who were loyal and actually served them?
At those points in the story the rebellion has accomplished some things and freed at least two major cities, so it's not nothing. Michael is strong, kind, caring and a charismatic leader. They have faith in him to see it through.
Yeah, but why are they giving it to him rather than their own champions who have actually been loyal to them personally?
If he decides to add the xenophobia element in his story, it could a pragmatic decision to support him because it would be a chance to get in the future ruler's good graces for the sake of their respective races.
Why would they want their artifacts in the hands of someone leading a xenophobic army? Plus, they could lead their own forces.
Michael is not rascist. He actually grew up with a werewolf, elf and half-elf in his village, and his army at this point is decidedly mixed.
Then it wouldn't make sense for the werewolf king and elf king to give their prized artifacts to him rather than their own champions who are more experienced and have always been loyal to them for much longer.
I was planning on making them the default wielders, but with Lucian being an axes-and-bows guy, I'm thinking of handing that off to another character (who is competent and trustworthy and also a werewolf).
They're... kind of like Laguz from some Fire Emblem titles.
Oh, so a race of shape shifters. There was a species like that in Eragon, if I remember correctly. That could be cool.
Oh yes, foreign entities are a cool element to play around with. Definitely. I mean, the rebellion being a completely foreign army kind of kills the rebellion vibe, but support from other empires could be cool. You could even have the level of support from them be determined from how much you're willing to sacrifice them, like territory or giving them power or whatever. Hell, the only reason there's a US is thanks to French support, so there's history in this.
I'm planning on having them actually act like a rebel group. They use stealth and counter-intelligence and other guerilla tactics to make up for inferior numbers.
Prince Michael: Our protagonist. The prince of the kingdom of Eisenlear. Kind, strong and wise. 14.
Klein: The aging knight and Michael's surrogate father. Calm and collected. 65.
Marcus: An elf, and one of Mike's best friends. Hot-tempered, but quite smart. Training fire mage. 13.
Linda: Half-elf, another friend. Training priestess, learning in the use of healing magic. Quiet and shy. 8.
Ky: Werewolf, and a third friend. Claims to be "A world-class berserker", but nobody believes him. 17.
Roy: Otto's son and Michael's cousin. Adept fencer. A bit insecure, but has strong conviction. 13.
Hawke: Studious water mage and son of Viscount Sorey. Prodigious, but kind of aloof. 19.
Julia: Elven shaman, adept in dark magic. Inquisitive, but quiet. Prefers not to bother others. 12.
Julius: Elven priest, and Julia's twin brother. Adept at light magic. Intelligent and calm. 12.
Flora: Elven princess. Uses earth magic. Energetic and peppy, always has a smile. 16.
Lucian: Werewolf prince. Powerful warrior, good with axes and bows. Confident and cocky, has a lot of quips. 20.
14yr olds don't tend to be wise or strong. They tend to be childrne. Also, it seems pretty evil for a 65 yr old to send teenagers to war, especially an 8yr old. Also, if Otto has a son, he'd be the next in line if he was last on the throne, not Michael, unless the uncle was just the regent, in which case he'd be unable to give up Michael's power.
To be fair, half of the main characters in ASOIAF/Game of Thrones are around that age and they're fighting wars and ruling kingdoms.
Yes, but not personally.
What does that mean?
They act as figureheads of fights, but those that young don't personally fight, they act as figureheads.
This guy was fighting personally all the time in his war, and he started to do it when he was around 14-15.
And this guy got sent to guard a gigantic wall from barbarians and evil ice zombies when he was 14.
None of those are eight.
Well yeah those are bullshit, but I'm talking about our protagonist here. It's not entirely unrealistic for a 14 year old to lead and fight in battles.
Yeah, fourteen I could see pushed.
She has MAGIC. She can HEAL WOUNDS WITH A TOUCH.
Plus she has four bodyguards, one of which is a soldier and another can burn things with his mind.
But she's 8. And if she doesn't get realistically scared or doesn't like fighting like any normal 8-year old, she won't be a character you can identify with.
...well, she's half-elf, so she can be 16 chronologically but 8 biologically. She can still be shy and caring, but now she's old enough to have courage.
You're fishing here now. you said 8 yrs old. you didn't say biologically until someone questioned why she was eight. and if you want to get into elf biology, elves live 10 times longer than humans. there for biologically a chronologically 8 yr old would be biologically a new born. also all of these elves that are chronologically young would not be holding such high positions as they seem to be holding, not until they are at least maybe 100 years old. and an eight year old would not be proficient enough in healing magic to be useful in a war.
Your too busy trying to prove that you're right, that instead of taking constructive criticism, you are pulling more and more stuff out of your ass that makes less and less sense.
It's my first story, okay!?
It's funny how every moron thinks that's an excuse to shit up the site
Have you measured the logistics of a civilization of elves? A species that breeds at the rate of a human (barring the notion that elves are "Too righteous" and "Too sophisticated for base pleasures" and therefore typically abstain from sex and having more than one child.) that takes twice as long to develop into anything strong and fighty (And that's barring the notion that elves are skinny, smaller, "fair" folk who don't do well up close against the burlier races.) in every likelihood will not survive in a medieval setting, on the virtue that they just will not be able to raise an army in a single generation and every loss is twice as costly in time and resources. This is during a time period where war happens all the time for just any old reason and people can kill each other without legal botherance as long as the guards are drunk and they won't visit the village again. That's what blood feuds are, after all. That's why people just walk around in armor and build walls around cities.
Linda VOLUTEERED to join Michael. Ditto with Ky and Marcus.
Ky I get, he's old enough. But letting children, especially an eight year old, go into dangerous situations even if they volunteer is still super immoral. They're children, you don't let them make decisions, especially not decide to risk their lives.
...I'll concede that fact. Marcus is 130, Julia/Julius 120 and Flora 160.
That makes it weird that ancient people are friends with a child.
Marcus is biologically and mentally 13.
So what, elves just mature super slowly? That's strangely ridiculous, but anyhow, you just revert back to the original issue of why untrainted mages are being sent to fight with Michael rather than actually well-trained Elves who aren't children.
Having a retarded elf manchild on the front battle lines would be hilarious.
...Never mind. He's biologically 13 but not mentally.
Still really, really weird, then.
Natasha: A female soldier, persuaded to the rebellion's side. Cold as ice, and abrasive. Adept with spears. Age: 21
Raven: A mercenary, hired to battle. Tends to be a bit emotionless, but can open up around others. Uses broadswords, with a decent amount of experience with axes. Age: 23
Oscar: A street rat who wanted to join. Good at taking information and money. Street savvy. Stealthy, good with daggers. Orphan. Age: 9
Sol: Elven archer. Also trained in medicine and herbs. Kind and friendly, but with a sarcastic edge that suggests that he doesn't like you. Age: 200.
Even more characters:
Laura: Daughter of Count Roland, and a strong swordswoman. Believes in honor and strength. Age: 17.
Seres: Sultry dancer and singer. Has good intuition and a strong memory. Age: 24.
I'm still working on it. The only conclusive thing I have is "The dragon king gives Michael one of his fangs, to carve into an extremely powerful sword".
Why not just fuckin burn everything down. Way easier
I'd believe it if the king didn't care one way or the other, honestly. He'd just give the human one of his loose teeth in an effort to get him to leave him the fuck alone, because he's too small and bony to be worth eating, and too pathetic for torture to bring anything new to light.
It could be a "Kingdom" in the sense that there are pretty much only 6 or 12 dragons, but they each take up the amount of wilderness and riches that 1000 people do, like Lords do by proxy, and decided to uphold the rule of one dragon that has a smaller tract of land but is free to sort of couch-surf around the Fiefs, like a King sort of does.
That was what I was going for.
Can you... not use the "R" word? I have... bad memories associated with it.
And secondly, what makes you think that Michael is... that word? I specifically described him as "wise". He has enough of a brain to come up with strategies such as:
Sending an auxiliary force through sewers to perform a pincer attack against a numerically superior foe
Using roofs of buildings as a hiding place to ambush foes
Having mages use magic to affect the environment. I have planned segments where Marcus dries up a river, making the enemies's choke point on a bridge pointless, Hawke making a heavy rainstorm to slow down enemies and buy the rebellion more time and Flora creating an earthquake to damage an enemy force. And before you ask "Why don't they do those kinds of things all the time?" It's because magic of such strength drains a large amount of energy (Marcus faints, Hawke gets a very serious nosebleed and Flora straight-up goes comatose for a day or so).
Can you not use "retard?"
Okay, now this is the most annoying thing you've done since you got here. Seriously, if you're going to be a sensitive poppet, then go elsewhere.
I'm in the category that... slur was once used to attack. I'm autistic. Asperger's syndrome. That word perpetuates a stereotype that people like me are idiots and morons who drool over everything and need a caretaker. I do not need those things. It's like the N word in that it's offensive and wrong and awful.
We've got tons of aspies here, none of them are bitching about retard.
This place isn't going to make an exception for you. And if you're going to reference the word "nigger" then just say it, rather than this self censoring "N word" shit.
Fine. I apologize.
One would think the fact that you're a moron perpetuates that myth more than someone calling you regard.
Ouch. Low blow, man.
That brings up another interesting point... What if nobody involved actually gives a fuck, and they're just passing off some annoying kids and eccentric warriors between each other, because they're too potentially useful not to keep track of, but too "adventurous" to have doing an actual job, so they're just employing the group in various skirmishes and sending them to bother other governments on their behalf? The whole rebellion is just a front for an overzealous dangerous snowflake control agency!
I'm inspired a lot by anime, which does this kind of thing a lot, and also inspired by Fire Emblem, which has a decent ratio of children (mostly mages-in-training, street thieves and the odd noble) vs. adults (hence the latest characters), so I'm sorry for all of this.
But I will say that that event is at the end of the story and Michael has killed Chullain and Klaus by this point which deserves some respect.
I'm starting to think that people just hate this idea, or me, because everyone keeps acting like this should be a realistic story with a dark plot.
Yes, there is a bit of touching on racism, yes, the rebellion isn't fully aligned with each other and yes, kids fight. But I still want it to have an overall optimistic tone.
Yes, the way the throne operates doesn't match normal succession laws, but guess what? It's a fantasy world, where things don't operate like the real world.
We don't hate the idea, we just hate that bits of it don't make sense.
Descent in my world is based on a combination of age and lineage. Eldest blood-line heir rules. At least, before Ironwhyte screws everything up.
King Percy (Michael's dad) was the king. He had a younger brother, Otto. As a prince, Percy married a noblewoman named Gwen, who then became the queen. They had Michael, Otto gets married to another noble woman named Claudia and they have Roy. Gale kills Percy and Gwen, so Otto inherits. Otto rules for a few years, then abdicates... to Ironwhyte. Klein sees Ironwhyte's demon form, flees with Michael. Otto moves to his summer home with Claudia and Roy.
Saying its fantasy doesn't excuse that entire system being absolute bollocks, mate. Where's the logic to that system?
Eldest bloodline heir. But the people have enough common sense to not put a 6 year old (Michael's age when Otto abdicates) on the throne, because he could make dumb decisions. So Ironwhyte is put on as an "acting king", but then Klein flees with Michael and Roy is in Otto's summer home and nobody exactly knows where to find them, so Ironwhyte just stays on.
So what age does get the throne? Because if they're smart enough to keep a 6 year old off the throne, they shouldn't be putting a fourteen year old in charge, so Michael being the next in lin shouldn't really mean anything.
How does Ironwhyte get put as regent? He shouldn't in any way be next in line to serve as regent.
If Michael is the rightful king, he's either too young to become acting king if that's the way your world works, or he is old enough in which case all he needs to do is make his presence known and the people should give him the throne, whether Ironwhyte wants it or not.
I'm planing on having the story take place over a few years, so that by the end of the story, when Michael takes the throne, he's 19.
Alright, then objection 2 and 3 there still stand.
2. He's not regent, he's a general in the army pre-throne and is know as a strong fighter and good leader.
3. If he announced himself, he'd get killed by Gale or a subordinate of him so the Four don't lose power. I'm making a point of Michael's public appearances having him masked.
You said he's put on as "acting king". That's a regent, and he'd have to be in the royal family for that. How is he ruling if he's not the king or regent? That's not how feudalism works.
Everyone already knows Michaels' alive, so him having it made known he's ready to take power doesn't expose him any further. He doesn't have to appear publicly to do so, he can easily use others to spread his message.
Well this isn't feudalism, it's a fantasy world. And I said he was "put on" as acting king. With both heirs disappeared, he changes his title to "Emperor."
Actually, they don't. He left for 9 years, and while common folk SPECULATE that he's Michael, he goes by a pseudonym (Azure Knight) and never shows his face to his enemies.
If the heirs have disappeared, the next guy in the line of ascension is put in charge. It isn't just given to some random person because they're good at leading.
Gwen: Dead, plus excluded (marriage, not blood)
Claudia: Missing, excluded
There is literally no one who fits the criteria. As the High General of the army, Ironwhyte is literally the best fit.
No, that's not how being a king works. It'd then go to extended family, then. They don't just go "Ah, give it to someone who'd be a good leader."
There is no extended family.
What, you're telling me for dozens of generations the family had a single child who then raised a single child and so on?
Well, not intentionally.
So coincidentally every single family had one child, who then had one child for many, many generations? That could not be more ridiculous.
1. Percy and Otto are brothers
2. They do have relatives, but they are very, very, very distant cousins who I will not have appear.
1. Every generation before this one.
2. The chance that they'd be very, very distant just means it was still a few generations of one child, which is pretty much just as ridiculous, not even taking into account that they're royalty so they'd want to have at least more than one child to continue the line.
3. Then the cousins would take over, not the general.
"If you wonder how he eats and breathes, and other science facts
Just repeat to yourself, "It's just a tv show, I should really just relax"".
A.K.A. I ask you to temporality suspend your disbelief.
You can't really use that line for something so essential to the story. If you were going to use it to explain away a gaping plot hole or something like "That fire blast should've killed him!" sure, there's an element of "It's just fiction". That doesn't work when your actual plot makes no sense. "You play as the heir to the throne but you're not actually in charge for some reason because you're pretending to be dead but you don't reveal you're alive and take the throne just because and also everyone just decided to put some random guy in charge just because" is not an excuse. Don't attempt to pull the "Just fiction" card to explain away your bad writing.
Well I apologize for not being a professor in history and not knowing everything about how inheritance in the Middle Ages works. That's it.
You didn't know that being king isn't randomly given out with disregard for blood line? If so, immediately stop writing fantasy. You're bad at it.
When there's no heirs, someone else takes over.
You already said there were heirs, the distant cousins.
That live very very very far away. Like, two months by horse-drawn carriage. And they aren't the main line of descent.
You're being nitpicky. Stop it.
So? Then they travel two months. Actually, they are in the main line of descent, because they're the only heirs there.
I'm not being nitpicky. Your story makes no sense. In a story where the villain has become leader rather than you, the true heir, how that happened is absolutely essential to the entire plot, and you're talking gibberish.
This doesn't matter, that's not what the story is about. It's about Michael struggling against the enemy, learning more about himself and the world, and eventually triumphing with the help of his companions.
No, it's essential to the story. It's literally one of the most important parts as it's what causes everything and begins the journey. You just shrugging and saying "Eh, the bad guy became king despite the true heir being alive and him being no where near the line of succession" is pure drivel.
How about you either fuck off, or end your retarded marriage to this shitstain idea? No good has ever come of cunting and moaning about your critics; believe me, I've done it plenty.
I want to start writing, and I want to do this. So no. Please leave, you aren't contributing any meaningful insights into this conversation.
I have, I'm just not sucking your dick, which is apparently what you want from a feedback thread.
You haven't said anything specific about individual aspects of my idea. Like characters, or places, or themes or settings.
Actually, I did. About your dragon. If you read the suggestions instead of defending your self-insert twatwaffle of an MC who totally doesn't get bullied in Middle School, you'd fucking know.
This idea isn't fully formed and things are subject to change at any time.
Then you should stop religiously defending the shittiest aspects of it
Yeah, I cooled down a little and now it makes sense what he's saying.
New Draft: Ironwhyte is now the younger brother of Percy and Otto, possessed by a demon.
Thank you, ma'am. On that note, I added some more characters higher up this thread, you might want to check them out.
...what was the joke?
You said, "I want to write". Malkalack can't stop you from doing that, and isn't stopping you from doing that. Mizal was performing a sarcasmic jape.
Ah, I understand now.
Still, more characters! Check them out!
If we thought it should be realistic we'd have said get rid of elves or whatever. Literally everyone here has levied very good criticism about the plot bellwether are fucking massive and just what doesn't make sense at all.
And it's not dark, it's multi-dimensional. Good triumphing is fine, but don't have just a generic "These are the evil guys because they're demons who are just evil" because it's nonsense and don't have the "we're heroes who are generous and nice and good at heart except for one of us who is mean but becomes nice because she's nice on the inside."
If you don't have a particularly creative setting like a Tolkien Fantasy, no moral nuance, no interesting characters other than generic "Good" and "Bad", and if your plot is generic as everyone helping you and you fight bad people, even if you write with perfect grammar and rhythm you have nothing worth offering the reader.
For some reason, you've gotten severance writers to explain the issues with your stuff and fuck, even give solutions. Be thankful, not fucking bitchy.
Well then why does everyone keep suggesting things like "Let's make the elf king and werewolf queen secretly manipulative and ultimately antagonists"?
And a few are not opposed to some dark solutions. By the end, our group has killed quiet a large amount of civilians, burned down at least four buildings and one forest, assassinated a noble and executed a traitor (but who?).
Some have made suggestions, but having the elf and werewolf as true bad guys doesn't make the story dark, it makes it multi-dimensional. Having them just be super nice and giving away their prized relics to the first hero who comes wandering in with a good heart or good leadership skills is ridiculous and stupid. Having the bad guy being "demons" who are just evil by their nature is awful and boring, while the alternative suggestion could be really cool and makes sense.
Sounds alright, then.
Ironwhyte: "You think it's fun to be locked up in a burning pit for your eternal life? You think it's fair that you sit in a green, prosperous land while we rot in sulphur?!"
He has a point, they're insanely jealous about the human world and want all of their kind to live in it.
Alright, fair point. That's a good motivation, he wants to lead his kind to a better life. Well done. Unforunately, it now seems like he's the good guy.
To do so, he (and Klaus, Chulain and Gale) have to harvest negative emotions like fear, anger, sadness and despair. They do so by slowly but surely worsening living conditions.
Alright then, in that case this is a perfectly good motivation for him and I like it.
To help with this, the generals have qualities that allow them to gain more of them:
Klaus is sadistic, and enjoys seeing others in pain.
Chulain is irritatingly hard to kill.
Gale is nearly invisible, but if you see him, you're basically dead.
That "Chulain" one makes it interesting. I mean, normally on the field of battle, a soldier who doesn't die despite going through some serious shit is grounds to cause worry, morale loss, or constant fear. Then he'd be intimidatingly hard to kill... But irritatingly hard is a very interesting concept. Just constantly pestering a person with inane things and never dying would be an interesting twist and fun hobby for an otherwise brutal and bloodthirsty villain. I'd like to imagine that one of the Demonlords at the head of this operation is actually just a John Cleese on steroids.
Have you ever seen Snatch? Chulain reminds me of Boris the Bullet Dodger.
Haven't seen it, so I don't know what you're talking about. Basically, he JUST. WON'T. STAY. DEAD.
Maybe I want a bit at the end where they lead their armies alongside Michael, all of them united against Ironwhyte?
Quick question, how are you going to write about racism, if you can't say 'nigger." just saying.
That question doesn't make any sense.
He's squeamish about hearing, let alone saying racial slures. How is he going to portray racial tension between characters if he is too afraid to say mean words.
In a fantasy setting, he can establish his own mean words that won't be harmful to anyone outside of that story. Also, you can still be racist without hurling slurs every other sentence.
The commonly accepted definition of racism is believing that your race is superior to another. If that is the case then you would more than likely want to make the targeted race aware of this at any time possible. You are not going to be nice to them, you are going to hurl racial slurs at them and belittle them every chance you got. That is why white men who are racist call black men nigger. That term roughly means ignorant, sort of like the term retarded. If you are going to portray racism then you have to be prepared to be mean, and if you can't take hearing real life derogatory terms, how can you create your own.
Have you ever met an actual racist? Have you ever fought with an actual racist?
Any racist above 13 is wayyy more condescending than the straightforward N-word-yelling chungus that you're making them out to be. They've been in arguments before, they know what they're saying sounds stupid to most people who aren't "Woken Up" to the "Truth" so obviously they're not going to let themselves be strawmen unless they're the clear social majority for all forseeable space and have been for years, like in the deep south during the 60s, which is where that stereotype comes from. They're always very beat-around-the bush and very sarcastic about their racism, never up front about it. Like an army of cancerous bald Tharas with shitty tattoos.
That is true, but as you so adequately pointed out above with the meme about the joke going over his head, the kid doesn't do sarcasm well.
Have you watched any movie with racism as a theme? People can be up-front about their prejudices still without using slurs. Have you read Steve's story, Prophecy? The main character is from a race of savage rapists, and is deemed inferior. The main character is denied service and threatened openly. Slurs are not necesary to express you do not like something.
You don't have to use racial slurs
If you write an actual character and not a stereotype!
I'm not saying that every sentence has to be nigger this, and nigger that. All I'm trying to say is, if you are squeamish around racial slurs, how are you going to adequately portray racism, slurs or no slurs. If you're going to portray racism you have to be prepaired to get mean, slurs or no slurs, just thought that needed adding in again.
Your original statement was "How can you show racism if you can't say 'Nigger'?"
Now, pardon me if I'm just seeing things, but I'm pretty sure the ball landed between those exposed dirt marks where the goalposts used to be.
I really need to think about and explain my ponts more fully in the beginning, so as to avoid these drawn out debates. I guess i was just in a rush to get back to reading the thread, because watching mizal and steve work is amusing. lol
That would be nice.
Methinketh thou were't dutifully attempting to be a Lord of the Edge the whole time.
He'll just project all the pain he's been served into his story, and direct it to the inferior races in his world.
Here we go, an attempt to fully explain my point so as to end this debate that could have been avoided if i had done this in the beginning.
If you are squeamish in hearing racial and other derogatory terms, this also would imply that you are also squeamish in regards to racism as a whole. If this is the case, then how do you expect to adequately portray racism. Even fantasy racism must draw inspiration from real racism, and if you are too squeamish to use real racism as a muse, then any racial tensions you write about will fall flat.
There is that better?
However, the author was only squeamish about slurs. He took personal offense to a certain slur, and wished for the utterance of that word to discontinue.
As I have stated before, racism does not require slurs at all, and our author has dealt with prejudices in his own life, making him all the more qualified to write about them.
And at this point (spelled it right this time ) I concede defeat, and admit that you do make a valid argument there. I would like to say, however, that knowing what it feels like to be on the receiving end of prejudice doesn't always mean you can write a character from the other perspective.
I agree with your ending statement. It was a good argument. Thank you. :D
Any time. Let's just hope that next time my start is as good as my finish. lol
You know all of this makes me want to start a thread about my story. Mizal, EndMaster, and Keil_Farren have all already given me some good pointers (even though EndMaster doesn't remember, because it was almost a year ago. What I procrastinate.)
It would be good to broaden my critique pool.
Give me a few minutes and it will be up. I want to make sure my start is as good as my finish this time.
That was then. I'm fine with it because they're set in times I have not lived in, where the words were probably common. But now? Checking my new profile, you'll note that one of my dislikes is "any kind of -ist". This coming from a straight white male.
I find it amusing that two of the biggest assholes on the site (You and Steve of course) have basically been helping him.
A broken clock is right twice a day.
That's not what that saying means.
...Touche. Not what I meant, though. Like Sex-ist. Rasc-ist. Mysogny-ist.
We don't have anyone like that on here so no need to worry about that.
Oh thank God.
That's not entirely true, I'm pretty sexist and misognyist, and I hate Muslims if they'd consider that racist.
I"m sorry but "white men" do not hold monopoly on prejudices. To say otherwise is ignorant. In Islamic countries women are seen as mere property, and people can be killed for simply being of a different faith. God forbid they find out that you're an American. Black, Mexican, and Asian street gangs kill each other just for being born a few blocks down the street or of another race. Hell when I was 3 I started preschool at a previously all black private school. Me and my sister were the first white kids there. Older black kids relentlessly bullied a 3 year old just for being white. So don't try and pull that "only white people can be prejudiced" bull shit. It only serves to compound the ignorance you've already display in arguing with people, who have been here longer than you, that were trying to help you make your story not completely suck.
Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. I apologize.
God forbid they find out you're American? What the fuck are you talking about? You're closest allies with one of those Islamic Countries, dipshit.
Gale assassinates Percy and Gwen.
Otto takes over for a few years, but abdicates the throne for "mental health" reasons. He, his wife Claudia, and their son Roy leave.
Ironwhyte, the youngest of the three brothers, takes over the throne. Secretly, however, he is possessed by a demon.
Klaus, an faithful but aging knight, discovers this secret, and flees with Michael.
Michael is raised as a hard-working farmboy in a small village named Haeph. He has three friends: a elf mage-in-training named Marcus (13 biologically and chronologically, elf eternal youth starts around 20-25), a half-elf cleric named Linda (11) and a werewolf woodcutter named Ky (17).
Klaus reveals Michael's heritage, with the five heading to the nearby city of Athe. There, they witness the cruel regime that has grown in the ten or so years. They meet with a militia group/resistance, consisting of Emil, a half-elf wind mage (15), Seres, a sultry dancer with a good memory and great observation skills (18), Hawke, a water mage and the son of Viscout Sorey, and Laura, a strong swordswoman and the daughter of Count Roland. The two join forces in their first operation: Operation Erstschlag. The plan is for Michael, masked and going by the pseudonym "M", appear and make a speech decrying Ironwhyte to try and lure out the Captain of the local guard, Lloyd.
Thank you. Anyway, you know that Demon Elixer that I put in my first draft? Scrapped it.
Klaus is decently important. He trained Michael in swordplay, he handles most of the rebellion's internal affairs like rations and such, and helps stragetize.
Any characters that you like?
Alright, this seems better. Definitely a big improvement.
Alright, seems like a huge improvement in the plot, well done. One question though, as I'm legitimately curious: when you say Seres is a sultry dancer, do you mean prosistute or stripper? Because I can't tell if you're trying to be coy and imply that or not.
Kind of. Her dances are normal, but she wears FAIRLY skimpy outfit when she does them.