Forums » The Lounge » Read Thread

I basically oppose all religion.  It's only benefit is perhaps morality, but do you really need a magical being in the sky to tell you murder and rape are not conducive to a functioning society? 

Let's take a look at the harm it has done.  Thirty Years' War: Protestants vs Catholics (3-11 million casualties).  French Wars of Religion: Protestants vs Catholics (2-4 million deaths).  Nigerian Civil War: Islam vs Christianity (1-3 million deaths).  Second Sudanese Civil War: Islam vs Christianity (1-2M dead).  The Crusades: Islam vs Christianity (1-3M dead). 

Religion tends to be the last to support equality.  The KKK is a Christian organization wanting to base rights on skin color.  Islam and Christianity don't support rights for homosexual couples.  Christianity and Islam discriminate and suppress women. 

A few examples of what the Christian bible has to say about women:
 
1 Corinthians 14:34-36 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
 
Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

1 Timothy 2:11-15 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.

Christians throw such fight over evolution that many schools in the United States just skim the subject or actually teach it as an equally plausible 'theory' as intelligent design.  My mind is blown by this.  We have proof of evolution! What do you call dogs?  Were there dogs on Noah's boat of incest?  Even if anyone didn't believe dogs evolved from wolves,  Dmitri Belyaev did us a favor by domesticating foxes starting in 1959 just to prove it all over again. Grey Wolves 'evolved' (I know selective breeding was responsible but it's the same process) into  toy poodles in only 30-40 thousand years, and there has been life on earth for 3,500,000,000 years.

Christianity believes the earth is much younger, I've heard surprisingly intelligent people argue that it is only 6,000 years old.  A long estimate in Christianity is 15,000 years.  Yes.  Many people really believe the planet Earth was created in 6 days by a magical man 6,000 years ago.  Suppression of science and technological advancement is another reason I feel humanity would be better off without religion.

I normally don't call myself an atheist because of the negative connotation.  I've actually had people ask if that means I am a Satanist.  Er.. no... I feel that I arrived at this belief fairly, having read and contemplated the Christian bible in its entirety and compared its teaching to what I know of our planet scientifically, from biology to physics.  I have looked for proof or even reasonable suggestion of the existence of a higher being and have found none.

(hehe, I'm in a novel writing mood today.  Stop posting such interesting topics in the forums so I can get back to work on my actual story!)

Don't know of you'd say that for all religions though. I mean, it's a rather big statement when you are mostly attacking Christianity and Islam. 

Most atheists are woefully uninformed about other religions lol.

I certainly did not intend to attack Christianity/Islam/Judaism.  As I pointed out, they are the religions I am most familiar with and thus the only ones I can confidently say I find useless in society.  If there are any Buddists or Hindus who wish to explain their thoughts on the subject, I would be more than happy to listen and make a decision on those as well.  As far as attacking, I am merely pointing out how that I arrived at the decision that there is no god and that the belief there of is more harmful than helpful.  I feel the same way when discussing any other sociological issue like welfare, drug abuse, censorship, environment, or poverty.  I feel it is best to consider all sides to the issue before coming to a conclusion.  Religion is a bit more touchy, but an opinion is an opinion.  

Of course not, I meant nothing about that. I was just pointing out that the blanket statement 'I basically oppose all religions' isnt the right statement when you know mostly only about 2 religions. Some religions are harmful, but opposing ALL religions is too big of a statement. 

Let's take a look at the harm it has done.  Thirty Years' War: Protestants vs Catholics (3-11 million casualties).  French Wars of Religion: Protestants vs Catholics (2-4 million deaths).  Nigerian Civil War: Islam vs Christianity (1-3 million deaths).  Second Sudanese Civil War: Islam vs Christianity (1-2M dead).  The Crusades: Islam vs Christianity (1-3M dead). 

Religion tends to be the last to support equality.  The KKK is a Christian organization wanting to base rights on skin color.  Islam and Christianity don't support rights for homosexual couples.  Christianity and Islam discriminate and suppress women. 

The wars:

War is a part of human history, people enjoy killing each other, taking each other's stuff and conquering. the religious wars you named (and i'm surprised you didn't mention the inquisition, which enjoyed frequent heretic burnings) would likely have happened over other differences in beliefs or desire for territory regardless of the existence of religion. In many cases it was just one country wanting another's territory (happens all the time for non-religious purposes) or someone wanting more rights or freedom (protestant vs catholics, too many examples that do not involve religion for me to name).

Disagreements in opinions result in war because humans are stupid, petty, intolerant creatures, the fact that a few of these were caused by religion doesn't mean that religion is the worst possible thing to come to mankind- it just proves that mankind is intolerant of other people.

Religion was merely man's excuse to be brutal and violent, not the cause.

As for the KKK:
You have to realize that Christianity contains, what, a billion? More followers? You take a billion people and examine each and every one of them, you'll find a hell of a lot of fucking assholes. The KKK are a white supremacy group that tries and hangs on to religion in order to draw in more supporters, but that doesn't mean they are acting with the approval of religion in itself. Just because something is done in the name of god, does not mean that the god in question or his followers would approve of it (If you have a stalker who is obsessed with you, and he cuts off animal genitalia and mails them to you in admiration, it doesn't mean you like it, pretty much the same thing with the KKK). (I think that if there is a god, he would be shaking his head at all of us, and then just annihilate the world out of exasperation and start over)

The KKK is an extremely small percentage of the total christian population, and it was formed in a country in a time that was noted for it's extreme racism. it's a minority, and not a well liked one, it is not an accurate depiction of most of them.

As for women, keep in mind that religion was formed in a time where men dominated women (and no, not in the hot way), and sexism was rampant, it would naturally influence the religious beliefs of the time. Now, you might argue that religion is something that should have changed with time to fit new cultural beliefs and tolerance, but I believe that would defeat the purpose of the religion in the first place.

Religion cannot be blamed for the flaws it presents, that's just how shit was back then. People made the religion agree with the typical cultural beliefs in order to draw in more followers.

"...but that doesn't mean they are acting with the approval of religion in itself."

Definitely not.

And may I point out Christianity is more than one religion?

It's more than one sect, I believe, but the definition of "God" to Christians is similar enough so that Orthodox, Catholic, Lutheran, etc. get lumped up together.

You forgot Baptist and Protestant. And yeah theyre similiar but they arent the same.

And the Mormons. lol

The parts that people complain/disagree about tend to remain the same in most of them. 

Christianity actually is just one 'religion', it just has more than one denomination (Catholic, Protestant, Lutheran, etc).  As far as saying those wars cannot be blamed on religion.. yes humans probably would have gone to war with each other anyway.  But that's like saying the reason you're not a vegetarian is that someone else will eat the hamburger.  It's just a way of justifying things.  Maybe we would have gone to war, but not that war.  And maybe if humanity had one less thing to disagree on, there would be less war.

Man you guys are picking my brain today.  I'm an atheist because I don't want to deal with religion!  I'm not posting any further on the topic for that reason, but it was lovely debating theology with all of you and I applaud all of your wonderful points and counter-arguements.