First off, sorry for all the tagging guys, I think this is an important topic and thanks for all your help.
@Aman, @Tanstaafl, @Killa_Robot, @BerkaZerka, @Endmaster, @Briar_Rose, @ugilick, @ThisisBo, @Drakilian, @cool74, @Sethaniel, @nmelssx, @Danaos, @Ford, @FeanorOnForge, @Fleshnblood_78, @Galobtter, @Fireplay @Kiel_Farren @claw2k11 @LelouchTheZero @Drakoblare @Delta44 @coins @Madbrad200 @SwiftStryker @ISentinelPenguinI @SindriV @A_Plastic_Peanut @Reverencia @Romulus @HugsGoodbye
I'd like you guys to tell me if you think any of the following games should not be purged. Please do not base your decision off of their rating or length. Read enough of each one to get a feel for whether or not you think it meets minimum site standards.
Note: Many storygames not on here will be purged. I'm just wondering if you think any of these shouldn't be purged. Once we have a list of storygames not caught by an objective set of standards, we'll start working on a subjective one.
Hey, I got tagged! I'll edit later to say which ones I want to keep
Sooner the better! :)
Well... I guess you can't edit now haha.
The third one? It at least has a three...
Please don't use objective metrics. Go read the story and tell me if you'd like to keep it based on what you've read. We're using objective metrics already to remove storygames. We're now looking at storygames which survived the objective metric.
forget what I said. It's not even really a choose your own adventure.
Not to mention it has a 2 now anyway lol.
I still see a 3 on Insult Eminem?
This thread might pull down some ratings if people haven't read them before :P. I actually wish this story was better because I liked the humor, but since it's so short and devoid of choices I'm gonna have to say delete
It actually managed a rating as high as a 3? It's five pages long. I don't have an issue with silly game ideas, it actually could've been an interesting and funny game about destroying a rapper's career, but it was boring, lazy, and stupid. I can stand stupid stuff if I feel like the author is actually trying, and it feels like it -could've- been funnier, but my standards do not forgive laziness. >.>
Might've gotten rated higher just because people liked insulting eminem, but it's another one that should be purged.
I just read through Hobo Life (didn't go with every choice though so maybe there is something offensive or something down the other ones) and I didn't think it was terrible enough to be purged. I mean, yeah, it was bad, it was short and it made no impact whatsoever, but I don't think it was bad enough to merit removal.
A short love story isnt the best but I dont see its so terrible it needs to be deleted. If they went and fixed some grammar and maybe added little it would be an okay story I think.
And I wasnt tagged...
Hobo life is funny, I like it.
The rest should all be removed.
It's funny, but it was so short. You don't even go on the journey he says you set out on. If he edited that in there I'd agree with you, because I found it funny as well.
Yeah Hobo Life can stay. I actually upgraded my rating to 2 upon going through it again. It actually does have potential if more effort had been put into it.
To be slaved or not to be slaved was dumb enough to be purged in my opinion. I'm sure the author was trying to make a valid point and all but the storygame was...well...stupid. Examples of the choices you get are "survive" or "die". This might be more of a rookie mistake someone who has no idea how interactive stories work, but honestly, I don't think that works as an excuse.
Yeah, you can't be enslaved in the first place XD. Plus the fact that the grammar was awful and it was historically innacurate kinda turned me off.
Yeah the slave one should go. There were a couple of copy cat slave stories written around the same time and they were all pretty bad as far as grammar and content were concerned. I think some already got taken down though.
Your Life in ThunderClan, while inane, seems pretty well structures - as if the writer actually gave it some effort - though it's short 1-liners for each page don't give it much wieght.
Warrior Cats A She-Cat Adventure Part 1 through 3 - None of them are worth keeping by themselves - this is a perfect example of why not to do chapters. Had the author put them all together into a single story instead (to give it some length), I would have supported keeping it around.
Warrior cats: An EPIC Adventure Part 1 - Again, this could actually stand as a longer story - but why the Short Chapter bullshit?
Your Life in Thunderclan isn't too bad. It actually gives a story, even if it's not that good. I say keep.
Warrior Cats Extreme Adventure can stay too, it's not that bad
I'm just quickly reading them one at a time.
I'm actually not sure about Hobo-Life. I mean it's bad, but considering the really dumb, random humor it was going for, it seems like it was supposed to be bad... Which kind of makes it seem less bad... I don't know, I wouldn't shed any tears either way over this one.
To Be Slaved Or Not To Be Slaved I'm not sure about either. It's stupid, but I don't know if it's actually bad enough to be deleted over.
Insult Eminem I don't want to see purged. I actually found it funny... Sort of.
Short Love Story I'm not sure about. It's really bad, but it's not a troll game, you can tell they actually tried. (Sure they failed, but at least they tried.)
Warrior Cat My Story... Yes, please purge.
A Moon Later, purge away.
Your Life in Thunderclan you can purge.
The three Warrior Cats A She Cat Adventure stories I'd like to see purged, but more because the she cat didn't actually have an adventure than because they're the worst story games that the site has to offer. (Don't get me wrong though, they come close.)
Warrior Cats Extreme Adventure, I'm not sure about. Very, very bad, but I don't know if it's bad enough to be deleted.
Warriors Adventure, same as the last one, not sure it's bad enough to be deleted, though I think I'd be happy to see it deleted due to links that say "Go off and rest" that lead to pages that say "You go off and rest."
I recommended the last one, so yeah, purge that
xD You're too forgiving, Briar.
Really, the only game that I think shouldn't be purged is the Eminem one and the rest I don't really mind either way.
A Short Love Story can go too though I guess they weren't kidding about it being short. Pretty linear as well.
I think the rest on the list are warrior cat stories and I'm far from being impartial to say any of those should stay since I'd purge them all.
What about the original, decent one?
That one isn't on the list is it? I just saw a list of warrior cats stuff and figured they were the crappy ones that the rest of you can trooper through.
Sorry, when you said you'd purge them all, I thought you meant all the Warrior Cats games, not just the ones on the list.
The most decent one would be Insult Eminem, which I wouldn't mind keeping around. As for the others, purge them.
*cringes* I can't believe I just read so much Warrior Cats. The grammar...so...bad. My eyes hurt from reading it. /)_(\
You killin Story games why. The site was made to create story game no matter how horrible they are.
... No. No it was not. There are rules that state that the games have to meet a certain criteria or they get deleted. That's why troll games, offensive games, games with inappropriate content and games with no "End Game, Leave Comments" link are deleted.
Nope. We really don't want horrible storygames here.
My final verdict is similar to Drak's, I'd keep the Hobo one and purge the rest, but if the Hobo one goes, it wouldn't be a loss.
I wonder how someone who hasn't seen the Purge would view this thread.
Okay. We're in the homestretch now.
What do the above stories have in common? We now need to come up with a set of descriptors which as a collective, describe the above storygames and don't describe any storygame that we don't want to see deleted. These descriptors will form the subjective site standards and anyone who contributes will get a slice of the 100 points which are all currently going to Drakilian. Note: All of you will receive a small point reward just for helping.
These descriptors shouldn't have anything to do with rating or length. They should be subjective descriptors.
Example of a bad descriptor: Any story with bad grammar.
That's bad because The Order of the Midnight Sun has bad grammar and it shouldn't be unpublished. However, bad grammar is common to a lot of these crappy stories, so it can be worked into our descriptors.
It's likely that we'll need a combination of descriptors so lets see if we can find a combination that describes these well without describing storygames that we don't want to see deleted.
So, please reply to this post with a set of descriptors which describe the above stories, and no good stories. Your list can use "and"/"or" statements. So it would be fine to say: "Plotless and without good grammar or with a random plot".
A story with consistent and repeated flaws that the author refuses to change or address.
Hm. Thanks for replying, but I'm looking for characteristics that I can use to delete a storygame with impunity. I'm not looking for characteristics that require me to PM the author first, etc. In other words, we need to be more specific than that. Also, some great storygames have flaws that the author refuses to address, like The Wal*Mart Game's UBER ENDING and Cryptode's ending. Furthermore, your descriptors don't even describe all of the stories in the above list.
Pfft, saying that Order of the Midnight Sun shouldn't be unpublished is just biased!
Bad grammar can be tolerated. What bad stories have in common when it comes to writing (and especially your examples) is 0 punctuation, making it impossible to read.
Walls of texts with no paragraphs is another one.
And lastly, superficial dialogue that make the word "cliche" lose all meaning. (but that can work in some cases)
That's what the stories above have in common.
So, would your list of descriptors be that all stories without paragraphing, punctuation or strong dialogue should be deleted? I think it's a good start, but what about quizzes and such. I think we should say, all stories with plots without paragraphing, punctuation or strong dialogue should be deleted.
Do you think none of the above stories have any punctuation, paragraphs or strong dialogue?
Yes, all of the above stories were a pain for my eyes to read and I was confused at times (didn't know what I was reading). Obviously dialogue alone isn't enough to delete a story though.
Many (all?) of them have punctuation though.
Only the first one does the way I see it. None of the warrior cats do (though it's hard to tell, them being one sentence long and all).
A short LOVE story, is a perfect example of why walls of text can't be read
The way you worded it was '0 punctuation'. I think lots of those stories have some punctuation, don't you?
I recall seeing a warrior cat game that didn't even have one dot. But yeah, some of them have plenty and well placed.
So then 0 punctuation won't work as a descriptor!
They hurt your eyes too? I thought I was the only one.
Yup. I think it's possible to get a headache if you try to read them
I disagree about the bad grammar, it can be a cause for deletion. Not by itself, but if you don't have a good story then it leaves you with even less of a reason to keep it. If you have a great story and poor grammar (Like OMS apparently, It's been so long I don't remember the grammar) then you can overlook the grammar and it doesn't bother you as much.
Oh, you're not disagreeing because I never said that we can't use bad grammar as a descriptor -- just that it can't be the only descriptor.
Ooooooooooooooooooooh, I see. So there could be a "Bad grammar and lack of plot" descriptor
Exactly. Because together, those don't describe any of the site's top stories.
Besides bad grammar, I'm not really sure if there's a collective term to describe all of them. I mean for example the three-part series had the problem of having the author pick the actions you pick the result of the actions rather than the other way around, but you can't really apply that all of them. Likewise, the hobo story has an incomplete plot since you were supposed to travel to the hobo camp and it never happened. Now that can apply to some, like the three part story, but not all of them.
You don't think there are any descriptors which fit all of them?
Well I would say lack of plot, but then Insult Eminem (Wait, is that on the above list?) actually does, it just lack actual choices. Whereas To be Slaved or Not to be Slaved has actual choices.
Similarities that I see in the ones posted above, as well as other bad ones:
So to summarize, stories which have early unpredictable death links, grammar and style which is bad enough that it's hard to ignore, a lack of context, a lack of plot, poor pacing and poor dialogue.
I think all of these are great. Does every store listed above exhibit ALL of these characteristics? If so, I think we've found our list.
What I listed is not within ALL of the stories above, but they do seem to be the trend of what classifies as a bad game on this site.
So let's start using OR statements so that we get a set of descriptors which fit EVERY story listed above. Here's how we start:
Start by telling me which of the descriptors we've found match every story in that list.
"The plot is either rushed, unexplained, or completely missing."
Seems to fit them all
Of the list Danaos posted (and i'm shamelessly copy pasting here), these are the following that are common to them all:
Also, i'd like to note that "throwing you into the story" is not always a bad thing, if done right it can enhance the story.
That is true, because I do it myself. These stories however will just say, "Hey, you're playing a storygame now. Pick choice." Instead of,
"The shots from the canons echo in your ears as you lie in the dirt. You're not sure where you are, but you know that if you don't act soon, your life will be over."
or "Your heart races as sweat descends your face like rain, the killer is here, and the footsteps grow ever closer..."
These are just some bad examples but you get what I'm saying.
Funny cause that's how ChoiceOfGames play out
I'm so glad you noticed.
I can't say that I'm bugged by it though. I guess the problem is that those are meant to be more "games" than "stories"
This might be enough!!!
Can you think of any storygame that has:
1. Writing style (including technical stuff like grammar) that is bad enough that it's tough to ignore
2. A poor or nonexistent plot
3. Poor pacing
4. Lack of important decisions (linear or pseudolinear)
5. Poor dialogue
that we'd want to keep?
And to reiterate, do all of the storygames in the above list match all 5 of those descriptors?
@Drakilian @Drakoblare @Danaos @ThisisBo
I shouldn't be here since I haven't played nearly as many games here as the other guys but I think that sums it up
I know I was not invited, but would you still value my input? I might know of one or two. I try to play all of the new story-games when I get a chance. @JJJ-thebanisher
As far as the ones you listed, To be slaved or not to be slaved is the only one that does noy have all 5 descriptors. Mainly because the grammar is fine and there is no dialogue.
And to answer your question, I haven't seen a story with those descriptors that I'd want to keep here.
Seems like it fits
Not that I can think of (To you asking what we'd want to keep).
Honestly, I think you may want to add the rule that, to be unpublished, a story must have committed two or more of these.
The only reason I say that, of course, is because of games like 8 goals, 28 rolls because there's no "story" plot there at all, but it's a well made game and it's not purposeless. This also extends to quizzes and the like.
The rule is all of them.
Ah, that's what I get for skimming... my bad.
Another thing I forgot to list and is present in all of them. Abrupt and sudden ending with no real build up to it. They just happen whether you like it or not.
I think that's covered by poor pacing.
Honestly, I don't think there is one thing that all these games have in common that separated them from other bad (but not delete-worthy) games. I think there's different things about different games that people think they should be deleted over.
I think most of them could be summed up under "The spelling and grammar are so bad that I actually got a headache reading them." But somehow I don't think that'd work as a rule.
I'm wondering if "Consistent use of poor grammar, spelling or punctuation throughout" would be a good rule, because it wouldn't apply to games that make the occasional spelling or grammar mistake, and it would be up to the mods and admins exactly how much use of poor spelling and grammar make the game bad enough to be deleted.
It's not a bad descriptor, but I don't think that on it's own should be enough to get something deleted. For instance, Mattias the One Knight has CONSISTENTLY atrocious spelling and grammar throghout. Check out how other users are combining descriptors so that we're not relying on only one characteristic.
Sorry, I think I misunderstood, I thought you were looking for a list of rules where each individual rule on it's own would be enough to delete a game, which is why I had so much trouble phrasing it
Any story about warrior cats.
As a general rule, I consider any story that has one or more of the two traits to be "bad":
After that it gets a bit harder to describe. Lack of meaningful choices/ a linear story is one, but we have a few good stories that are largely linear, so it's not like it's usually cause for removal.
Awhh! Abysmal! I like that word ^_^
Dang, this thread goes fast haha! I may be late, but here are 3 things/descriptors that I find very annoying (they may have already been hit on, but I only scanned through all the posts, so...) -
1. L33t Sp33k, giant text/ off-page-running exclamation points !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (this may fall into grammar though)
2. Bad Paragraph spacing, where there's huge gaps between paragraphs or (more commonly) almost an entire page between the last paragraph and the first Link Choice.
3.Random Left/Right/Left maze segments of a story
Ah, I see the finalized list has been posted here ---> Minimum Site Storygame Standards
Hobo life is fine
To be slaved should be purged
Insult eminem is fine
Life in thunderclan is fine
Warrior's adventure is fine
The rest got purged already I think
Boohoo I wasn't tagged, guess that's what I get for being neutral
Hobo life is perfectly fine although it is short and has low ratings. It was creative, but a bit short. Otherwise, there is nothing much wrong with it.
To be slaved or not to be slaved... Well, it has historical inaccuracy, a point which I despise. The grammar was not very well done and it needed paragraphing. It also had a bad use of choices. This needs to be purged.
Insult Eminem actually has a plot, but it has a lack of choices. It was quite decent in my opinion, so I guess it stays.
Your Life in Thunderclan and Warriors Adventure 1: For me, purging or keeping them would be perfectly fine, although I know that there are very many people on this site who would not be sad at all for them to be destroyed completely from the face of CYS.
Anyway, the others seem to already be purged.