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I was thinking how the characters in the Bible would look if we were to assign them power levels as we do in DBZ. So with that being said, here is what I have, tell me what you think:

God - 100,000,000,000,000,000

Satan - Unknown (He is likely equal to, or very close to God's power level)

Adam & Eve - Unknown, but they'd collectively be able to rival God's power.

Michael - 500,000,000,000

Gabriel - 1,000,000,000

Jesus (pre-crucifixion) - 100,000,000,000, Jesus (post-crucifixtion) - 500,000,000,000

Moses - 100,000,000

David - 5,000

Goliath - 25,000

Samson - 1,000,000

Noah - 1,000

Anyway, I'm sure there are plenty of characters that I missed. Feel free to add or adjust to how you think they should be. What do you think of the ones I've posted?

I think that God is clearly one of the most powerful characters, followed closely by Satan, and Adam & Eve. I say this because the angels that followed him in rebellion clearly thought he was strong enough to be able to take down God. Michael only defeated Satan because he was getting a major boost from God at the time, and even then, he couldn't finish the job. Jesus's power isn't impressive when compared to his father, but it is possible that he never chose to use it all of it. Jesus was capable of bringing people back to life, killing plants, banishing demons, and healing, so his powers are nothing to underestimate. He would only get stronger when he comes back from death. I think Adam and Eve were close to God's power because God himself stated that he didn't want them to become immortal by eating from the tree of life. Had they done that, it would be all they would need to be gods themselves, had they desired that. So it is very possible that Adam and Eve are collectively the most powerful characters in the Bible.

 

EDIT: Also, I would like to say that God's power, while very high, is not infinite. He even admits that there are things that he cannot do.

You forgot Mary....

Her power level is too low to worth mentioning. I see her at 5.

Why would Adam and Eve be all that powerful? They didn't really do anything special except get themselves kicked out of the garden of Eden and from there they lost all their perks.

Noah on the other hand built a freaking ark for all the animals on earth.

Well he did have rock giants helping him out...

Adam and Eve were pathetically weak before eating from the Tree of Knowledge. After doing that, their power levels spiked high enough that it made God worried that they would eat from the Tree of Life and become "like us," as he put it. This was the reason he kicked them from the Garden. The only reason I could see for him wanting them out so fast is because he didn't want anymore competition, especially when you consider that he has his hands full with Satan. The last thing he needs is two more gods with infinite knowledge that could take him down. In my opinion, I don't think Adam and Eve would try to do that...unless Eve wanted to do it.

I don't consider Noah to be all that powerful. If anything, his power level is 5,000 tops. I'm not sure how getting animals to follow you would translate into power, and he certainly isn't any more powerful than Goliath.

Yeah, Noah has Rock Giants under his command, that's gotta put him over Adam and Eve at least.

What about Adam's first wife Lilith? She's the only human that can be counted among the Lucifer's legions and still remain semi respected by him. 

There's also Cain, who became the very first vampire after he killed his brother. Surely he's pretty far up there.

Then there's Gabriel who started the second war in heaven because he didn't agree that angels should be subservient to humans. Not as powerful as Lucifer obviously, but definitely pretty powerful.

Come on, EndMaster. I'm pretty sure that Goliath could destroy a few Rock Giants. Wait, how big were they? Still, Adam and Eve had reached a power level that made God shit himself at the thought of them gaining eternal life. That says something.

I also don't know where to place Lilith. If anything, she is half as strong as Michael. If she had eaten from the Tree of Knowledge, that would be a different story.

He became a vampire?!

Wasn't Gabriel just a messenger angel? When did he start the second war? Also, I already had him at 1,000,000,000. I just couldn't see him stacking up to Michael, otherwise God would have sent him along with Michael when they pursued Lucifer.

The "Rock Giants" were actually cursed angels for disobeying God, (They looked more like stone golems than anything else) so I'm fairly certain Goliath isn't doing much against them given he got taken out by a boy with a sling shot...

Anyway, it all worked out since they eventually repented and got their heavenly angel form back.

Then that would mean that either Noah had enough power to control their actions, which would certainly place him higher, or God was controlling them, and knowing him, he wouldn't do that because he'd rather sit back and watch.

Does it mention whether Noah controlled them or if the Rock Giants were just unwillingly helping him?

They were willingly helping him.

Then that wouldn't do much for Noah's power level. He was certainly no fighter, but I think 1,000-5,000 would fit him. He had to gather a bunch of animals which would probably mean he has some mad telepathy skills (to a degree), or God did it for him (unlikely, I think God actually told him to do it himself).

From DBZ, the only person with psychic powers was Guldo and he was around 25,000. Also, Noah had to gather all the food for the animals, which is something that Goku could do when he had a power level of 500.

Isn't Cain (or rather, Caine) being the first vampire just a thing in the WoD books? (Where he is, indeed, godlike in his power).

I guess. What about some of the apostles? Or are their power levels too low too?

I can't remember any of their names :P

Except that guy who is at the Gate of Heaven, I'd place him around 50,000,000.

They're are 3 apostles that asked jesus if they could live on earth until his 'second coming' which you think would qualify them for a high power level like 250,000 (just suggestion i have no idea what you guys think) and all the apostles had the power of god on their side so kind of high power levels.

Names:

Simon, James, john, Andrew, Phillip, Thomas, Bartholomew, Matthew, another James, another Simon, Thaddaeus, Judas. (I don't know which one's requested temporary immortality.) :) :P

 I can keep suggesting. I've literally got a children's bible next to me.

Go for it. The only other character that comes to mind is Legion, but I can't place a number on him...or it...or them. Legion's power was probably being held back due to the fact that the full power being unleashed would probably destroy the host.

Poor Jonathan. One leap and he decapitates 20 philistines(?) but doesn't even get mentioned.

Lol, sorry, I made this list in a rush.

He's basically the Achilles of the Bible. I'd place him at 500,000. He's not above Samson, for obvious reasons.

Also, as far as the angels go, I think their power levels can range anywhere from 10,000 to 100,000,000. The obvious exceptions are archangels such as Michael and Lucifer. I also know that Satan > any other angel. The only people that could match him would be God, Adam & Eve, and obviously Michael, but only if God is in his corner at the moment of the fight.

I think God didn't want Eve as a god because when she got her period things wouldn't go down the best.

I don't think Eve would be a major threat by herself.

But with godly powers...

I always thought Power Levels were fucking dumb - what use is a grading system if each "point" doesn't have a definite value?

Meh, true enough I guess. There isn't a clear planet busting power level minimum since Piccolo could destroy the moon with a level of 2,000 but Guldo couldn't do the same at 25,000. Plus, you have people freaking about certain power levels despite them having one significantly higher (eg. Vegeta).

I think it was needed in the show though. Power levels never really became a thing until the scouters came a long, and at that point it was just showing how overreliant Freiza's army was on those things.

I dunno, I still don't see why Adam and Eve are so powerful. My understanding is God just kicked them out for disobeying him, not because he was particularly worried (Just like he did with Lucifer) about whatever knowledge they gained which would still pale in comparison and all the knowledge in the world doesn't necessarily mean much if you're cursed with a frail human body which now had to suddenly get used to the harsh world outside the garden. 

Here's some more folks.

Lazarus, Methusala, Solomon, Nimrod, Simiramis, Judas, Job, The Beast, The False Prophet, The Whore of Babylon, The Anti-Christ, The Four Horsemen.

 

Yeah, Adam/Eve weren't really powerful as much as they were incredibly smart, second only to God and his Angels. That itself doesn't really allow them to rank that high.
Also, where would Jacob rank? He totally went MMA with an angel.

Random note: according to one of my rabbis Nimrod was essentially Bible's Al Gore since, after the Flood, he managed to convince everyone to spend years building the Tower Of Babel to protect themselves from it if God does it again. So Rashi asks how he managed to get so many people in on such a cockamamie, expensive plan that was ridiculous in retrospect, and kinda leaves it an open question. Then my rabbi told me he'd give me his copy of State Of Fear with the 'immodest' parts blacked out...

Yeah, I think you're both right on that. Still, it is curious as to why God was so worried about them eating from the Tree of Life.

EDIT: It would depend on how strong the angel was. As I said, some angels were very weak. I say this because in Sodom and Gomorra, the angels there seemed to be weak enough that the villagers may have been able to rape them if they properly ganged up on them. This is really the only reason that I'd place the lowest level angels at 10,000.

The two angels literally destroyed Sdom, lol, they werent gonna get raped. Jacobs angel fight was against the Satan, soooo xD

 

No they didn't. God basically sent them down there in order to check things out and get Lot and his family out of the city. Also, there is no mention, not even a hint, that indicates that the angel was Satan and I'd love for you to prove me wrong on that.

Read teh talmud brah

Yeah, the rabbis describe it as the Angel of Death, which in Judaism is essentially Satan (but he never 'rebels' or anything dumb like that in ours.) Samael or something.

I thought the Angel of death was called Azrael in Judaism. Anyway, as far as it is mentioned in Christianity, the angel that Jacob wrestled with was just another angel. I also remember something about Jacob losing that fight anyway. Something about his hip, right?

What? I mean, yes, the hind muscle (blanking on the proper name) was damaged leaving Jacob with a limp, but the Angel was forced to give Jacob a blessing in exchange for it not being destroyed (the time for it to praise God was coming up, and if it missed it it'd be destroyed). 

Didnt know this was exclusively Christian. :P

Sciatic Nerve

Yeah that lol

Never said it was. Just saying that the story is slightly different in Christianity, mainly that the angel wasn't Satan. I also heard that because of this, people (I forgot which religion) don't eat the meat from the hip area. I'm pretty sure I got that wrong, but it had something to do with meat.

Jews can't eat the sciatic nerve of an animal. Usually that means that we can't eat the hip but some butchers are trusted to cut around it.

Actually... no. Allegedly Jacob wrestled with God.

Why God would walk around incognito in the middle of the night and start wrestling with one of his followers, I have no idea, but multiple translations have him asking the dude's name and the guy (again, allegedly God) goes "Why do you ask my name?"

Then "Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, “For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered.”"  ... considering nothing about a mostly friendly wrestling match suggests a near death experience, he meant that quite literally. And according to Christian doctrine, if God hadn't taken a human form when he came to visit, then yes. It would've straight up killed him to look at God's face, hence his relief.     

Can't tell if that last paragraph is a joke or not. Jacob continued to limp throughout the rest of his life after that match (mentioned in the text)-- it wasn't friendly at all haha. Better translations contextually refer to it as 'Divine' instead of wrestling with 'God'. It was a big deal to have survived overnight against Esau's guardian angel, considering it was of Esau's fierce essence.

"Friendly" as in crippling him instead of straight up killing him. :P Yes, it was somewhat joking. "Better" translations? I cross-checked five versions. Jacob's words are pretty much the same for all five... but whatever. I'm sure it is different in your translation, 'cause there was some mention above of it being the angel of death or Satan, which I've never heard of. It doesn't really make any difference to me personally, I was just addressing Danaos in regards to his statement about how Christians view the event. :P Not Jewish doctrine.

Better translations as in the ones directly translated from the original Hebrew. Artscroll, for example. Jewish doctrine is the whole Satan thing, translation isn't necessarily related to Jewish doctrine as much as it does the ancient Hebrew. Just inputting how it's supposed to be interpreted :)

I'm pretty sure that someone (Paul I think) was able to look at God's face and live.

I'm pretty sure God wasn't too worried about them eating from the Tree of Life and becoming immortal. Rather, I think he felt betrayed and kicked them out because they had stained the purity of the Garden of Eden with their sin. They wouldn't have been allowed to stay in the Garden after that.

Adam and Eve haven't really done anything to show that they are that strong, true, but my main reason is that God just didn't want them to become immortal like him.

22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Now, I could have it backwards in that the Tree of Life would have given them that power.

Lazarus - 1,000 (all he did was die and get resurrected by Christ)

Methusehla - ? (I know nothing about him except that he was the oldest, which means nothing)

Solomon - 10,000 (his wisdom doesn't equate to a high power...which actually goes against the Adam and Eve thing :|)

Nimrod - 100,000

Simiramis - 50,000

Judas - 500

Job - 10

The Beast - 750,000,000,000

The False Prophet - 100,000

The Whore of Babylon (for some reason, I thought Mary) - Unknown. Either she is powerful enough to control the beast, or the beast is loyal to her.

White Horse (Anti-Christ) - 250,000,000

Red Horse - 50,000,000,000

Black Horse - 250,000,000,000

Pale Horse - 500,000,000,000

Adam & Eve (corrected) - 2,000

EDIT: That damn copy and paste screwed everything up.

Wait, you thought Mary the mother of Jesus was the Whore of Babylon? Lol.

I saw "whore" and thought you were referring to Mary.

Azazel maybe? 

Azazel is represented in the Book of Enoch as one of the leaders of the rebellious Watchers in the time preceding the flood; he taught men the art of warfare, of making swords, knives, shields, and coats of mail, and women the art of deception by ornamenting the body, dyeing the hair, and painting the face and the eyebrows, and also revealed to the people the secrets of witchcraft and corrupted their manners, leading them into wickedness and impurity; until at last he was, at the Lord's command, bound hand and foot by the archangel Raphael and chained to the rough and jagged rocks of [Ha] Duduael (= Beth ?adudo), where he is to abide in utter darkness until the great Day of Judgment, when he will be cast into the fire to be consumed forever

The goat-eater? 

The scapegoat haha

I think this is the closest I've ever come to talking about anything remotely DragonBallZ related.

I still don't know anything about the cartoon except there are a bunch of funny looking spikey haired dudes screaming all the time, the "Over 9000" meme comes from it and apparently people get into major flame wars about hypothetical battles involving some Goku guy and Superman.

 

That basically sums it up. So...yeah. The story went on longer than it should have.

What about Leviathan or Behemoth?  Those two certainly had some epic power levels!

“Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook
    or tie down its tongue with a rope?
2 Can you put a cord through its nose
    or pierce its jaw with a hook?
3 Will it keep begging you for mercy?
    Will it speak to you with gentle words?
4 Will it make an agreement with you
    for you to take it as your slave for life?
5 Can you make a pet of it like a bird
    or put it on a leash for the young women in your house?
6 Will traders barter for it?
    Will they divide it up among the merchants?
7 Can you fill its hide with harpoons
    or its head with fishing spears?
8 If you lay a hand on it,
    you will remember the struggle and never do it again!
9 Any hope of subduing it is false;
    the mere sight of it is overpowering.
10 No one is fierce enough to rouse it.
    Who then is able to stand against me?
11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
    Everything under heaven belongs to me.

 

There's even some (Apocryphal, I think, but still) pre-revelations writings that say Behemoth, Leviathan, and then some flying thunderbird monster named Zig or something to that effect were going to get into a fight and destroy the world.

The Leviathan and Behemoth are actually representations of Satan in my opinion and not actually depictions of crocodiles and hippos (because that's what they are if you think of the animals at that time and how the two beasts are described in this passage). God shows that only he can tame the devil.

That's... Not exactly how it works. Leviathan and Behemoth have been portrayed as both good and evil in apocryphal works, given this duality it's likely that they were indeed representations of animals. Hell, if anything, Leviathan protects us all by keeping his mouth shut unless he's eating and not letting all the demons of hell out. It wasn't God saying, "Dude, can you tame the devil!?" because obviously the devil can't really be tamed by anyone, and Job, as a faithful guy, would've known that. It was god saying, "Dude, look at this majestic-ass motherfucker right here! Look how badass he is! You think you can handle that kind of shit? Huh? No, you can't, only I can handle that shit, because he's my creation and he's OP as fuuuuuuuck m8."

And besides, everyone knows that Satan lives in hell, not on the wild plains East of Eden.

True, but there are also many parallels to the actions of the devil. This is only my interpretation however.

Og is pretty high up there, being that he survived the flood and was only killed by Moshe. Hmm, Yehuda and Levi massacered a whole town but thats when they were weak, buuut it's said that Joseph feared that if he left them togheter theyd destroy all of Egypt by themselves. 

Abraham launched a like, 12(?) guy camapign against 5 or 4 kingdoms and crushed them to save his Cousin.

Esau killed Nimrod iirc and took his coat as a trophy and then countinued on to founding one of the stronger nations in Canaan. (He was then killed by a blind and deaf guy when Jacob was being buried)

the twelve sons of Jacob were pretty powerful in general. 

Elijah killed like 100,000 false prophets. (And caused droughts, teleported, and is now immortal)

Deborah was pretty powerful, though more as a leader then a fighter

 

I don't know much about those characters aside from Abraham and Elijah.

I'd think that Elijah is more powerful than Moses, but I've always thought of Moses being the greatest of God's prophets when you don't include Jesus.

Greatest in acts, but I'd assume using your powers smartly as opposed to brutishly gives you the gains.  I mean, when Moses snapped at a rock, he got the entire race cursed for a generation!

I always think of Gideon a little bit like a Hebrew Leonidas, and any version of Leonidas is 1,000 at least.

And I'd also like to dispute Satan's power level. Yes, he may have the power of evil, which effects pretty much every person on earth, including Jesus, but Jesus beat the crap out of his inner evil and beat the crap out of death itself, (Apocryphal writings describe him going all Knight Templar on a bunch of families, killing them just by touching them, and then resurrecting them with a word when he felt bad.) Not only that, but god never "Had his hands full" with Satan. Unlike any of the other characters in the bible, his form is Lovecraft-like in that looking at it kills the crap out of you, and not only is his form and location indiscernable, but there's also no fucking discernable way to hurt him.

The only thing Satan was ever at risk of doing was hurting God's pwecious feewings by ruining all the shit he just made (Speaking of which, I'd like to see Satan create a universe with words. That's far out of Satan's reach and shows he's in no way close to God's powers.) and, as the Old Testament has shown time and time again, Jesus is the one who would be genuinely hurt by this, not God. God has demonstrated that he's absolutely fucking fine with erasing all of creation just to have one civilization with any hope of being good. Even then, he's committed mass genocides since because he's just a tough-love dad, I guess.

Now, I don't exactly believe in God, but it is a little aggravating when people honestly and persistently expect Hodor to win the iron throne when Thor sits on it.

I can say with certainty that Satan is more powerful than Jesus ever was. In the scene where Satan was confronting Jesus, he never really did anything but tell him join and worship him, then he dared him to jump off a cliff. I am certain that if Satan wanted to kill Jesus, he simply would have done so.

God was never able to eliminate Satan, despite Satan standing for everything that God supposedly hates.

From what I understand, Jesus (who I have accepted as being God's SON, not God himself) is supposed to assume the throne of God eventually, if he hasn't already done so. This would indicate that his will eventually reach a power level close to God's, if not higher. Thus, it is fair to assume that someone could become stronger than God. It's similar to the concept that a son (creation) can become stronger than the father (creator). I'm not saying that Satan has become stronger than God, but I am saying that he is strong enough to rival him. He's the only person in the Bible to reject God and declare war with him, then not be eliminated because of it. Everyone else who has tried the same was slaughter by God.

That's exactly the point: Satan never did anything but appear to Jesus as a hallucination, show him visions, and make dares. That's all the biblical Satan ever does, appear to people and try to tempt them. The only time he's ever shown some firepower is when he rebelled against God (In apocryphal texts) and in that case he got his ass handed to him and he was cast into hell so hard that he's only been able to just "show up and talk" ever since.

God never tried to eliminate Satan, man said he wanted to be tested, and he's keeping him around for testing. Batman has every possible means of eliminating the Joker, but the Joker only ever gets prison sentences.

That's the thing about the trinity, it's all the same guy. There's God as the father, who is the word, some sort of magnificent, omnipotent supernatural force that sees everything, and is essentially in this analogy the ki force that most of the holy Saiyans are drawing their energy. Then there's God the son, who is an amalgamation of this power that decides to become a man. The son no longer exists, because he's been nailed to a tree by Pilate. Afterward, the 'holy ghost' is the same guy as the first, except now there's character development to be had because he's been inside a human body and knows what hormones and brain-controlling emotions are like, so basically Dr. Manhattan from the Watchmen.

I think the trinity is a ridiculous concept. It raises more questions than it answers. As far as God and Jesus goes, they are completely different people; God is the father of Jesus, it's as simple as that.

God is the father of jesus in the same way that Raven72xx is the mother of her self-insert Mary Sue named Ebony. He created himself and became Jesus. It's been said several times in more credible interpretations that Jesus is the spirit/the word/God made flesh.

I'm aware of this, but what I'm saying is that it makes understanding it more complicated. Do you not see how much sense it wouldn't make it Jesus was his own father? Not just the concept of him birthing himself, but even the story of Jesus. I tried to look at the Holy Trinity in the same way I look at Talos from Skyrim (same trinity concept) and I can't understand the former the same way I can understand the latter, which is odd when you consider them being essentially the same (as far as the trinity goes, not the individuals).

I don't understand that first sentence at all. What are you referencing?

The more you try to consider God as an omnipresent energy/incomprehensible Cthulhu being that manifests in thoughts and miracles, the more sense it makes. (Especially because Ezekiel got picked up by some horrific monster angel that rode in on what is essentially a UFO... *Conspiracy m8*)

The first sentence was in reference to a horribe Harry Potter fanfiction, don't worry about it.

I'm finding it very frustrating how one of the biggest events in the Bible has very little detail. The first War in Heaven is what led to pretty much everything else that happened in the Bible, and all we get about the story is, "Well there was a war...and we won." Yet, the Bible will go into great detail about how a rich guy got the screws put to him. I mean, there is such a missed opportunity to expand on some really interesting characters. They could have told us more about Lucifer and how he felt during the rebellion. They could have told us more about Michael (who is a badass) and his role in all of it. Even Gabriel could have gotten the spotlight for a bit. The stories about the strategy used by both the Holy forces and the rebels would have been great to hear about, even if Lucifer wasn't actually on the front lines (I see Michael as being that type). Oh yeah, and the epic duel between Lucifer and Michael, what they said, how they felt, what was going through their head. This would certainly make Christianity more entertaining to read about.

That's because there's only so much mythology you can spin before people stop believing in it. The creation myth with everything being good as opposed to everything being born by gods fucking and/or killing each other was written to deliberately oppose the religions that the Hebrew people had to compete with at the time, and afterward it was all just minor worldbuilding details. The earlier in time a myth takes place in, the more far fetched it gets because nobody was there. That's why the rich guy getting thrown into the middle of a shitstorm has so much detail, because it's an allegory based on historical accounts that could be kinda sorta verified by family ancestors and elders at the time, so you can add more details not only because you know more about it, but because it won't push people's suspension of disbelief.

One reason for this is perhaps because the Bible is written by humans, that it is imperfect and all of these genesis stories can only be written through the viewpoint of one person as they receive a vision - therefore, the lack of detail.

Or maybe it's because revelations is an allegorical work and such detail is not only unimportant to the work itself, but would improperly cloud up the message he was trying to convey?

Definitely true. Such detail is not what counts and would not have served any particular purpose. The Bible was read out to audiences in such times until recently in fact and you can imagine that describing all these wars and events in detail wouldn't have served any purpose. Just recently, people have truly begun analysing the Bible. But I was just pointing out another probable reason.

Here we have a book...that plenty of people take as the actual word of God and you are able to accept that detail in unnecessary? I understand Sentinel's point, but I still find it ridiculous from a non-secular point of view. Look at mythologies that have come before Christianity, take Greek and Roman for example, and you'll notice that they go into great detail with every story. A great deal of those stories were absolutely outlandish, yet the people that listened were able to believe in it for a great deal of time. And I'm talking about stories of people cutting each other's dick off in order to usurp a throne, wrestling with three headed dogs, and a really horny guy that would rape women for the fuck of it. Each of these stories had detail (sometimes too much) and people were able to take the story and run. They'd even actively participate and create their own demigod! So how is it that the authors of the Bible couldn't spin an epic tale that included the divine beings of their religion? Everyone else seemed to be able to do it just fine.

Like I said, Revelations is an allegory. It's not supposed to be detailed, and the details that are there are symbolic. Either way, you know what happens when myths get detailed? The details get mixed the fuck up. The bible wasn't always written down, and even then, not everyone could read, They covered the bases so that people could retell it and spread their religion without fucking it up. I mean, there's all kinds of different accounts and retellings of mythological tales. None of them can agree on whether Persephone actually came to love Hades or not.

Hell, do you even know why half the myths are as detailed as they are? It's because of all the plays and reenactments and epics they wrote afterward detailing their own fanon that became widely accepted by the uneducated public, and even then, not everyone bought it. Lucian wrote a satire in the second century that was detailed as hell, and it was all about how wildly implausible their mythology was, it actively called out Homer and said he was a fucking liar because he wasn't there when it happened.  Ancient people are ancient, not stupid.

Jesus is God in the flesh. The reason why God cannot birth Jesus is because he is not human and Jesus was supposed to be God's representation on earth in the form of a human being.That is why Mary was chosen to be the vessel. Jesus, although he has his own doubts and opinions and thoughts throughout the Bible, all of this is because he was birthed in the imperfect form of a human being. Despite this, He and God are one - it's just that Jesus is more 'imperfect' as a human.

I can say with certainty that Satan is weak as shit after being thrown into hell. He could only tempt Jesus and not actually harm him. And the reason God isn't able to eliminate Satan is because the devil resides within human sin. 'Satan' is the word that sums up sin, temptation, hubris, all of that. Satan's temptation of Jesus is a metaphor that temptation will only hurt you if you give into it.

Well in any case, it seems like it would make for a better video game than the crappy Left Behind one.

If this was a game, I would choose Samson and go ape shit.

I always thought Ehud was one of the coolest Judges, even if he didn't have superpowers.

He was pretty badass, and a lefty! The only characters I wouldn't use would probably be God (because he'll be OPed to hell), Satan (unless I had the option to choose the Lucifer variant), and Abraham.

The characters I'd hate would be Jesus (he'll spam healing) and David (he'll spam ranged attacks). Though, I certainly think that Jesus would be the number one troll character.

If you're going by Christian doctrine (and since Jesus is in this, I'd say that's a safe bet) it's not "cannot," it's "will not" as far as God is concerned. The Bible expressly states that all things are possible with God, but apparently there's some set of rules He set up that He refuses to violate. It also says that he is 'all-powerful' and a few other phrases to suggest that his power is, in fact, infinite.   

(Also, to say that Satan's power level is even close to rivaling God's is kind of laughable, considering God made him. He's basically an over-hyped fallen angel. Granted, he was suggested to be the highest ranking angel before he turned on his maker, but even as a leader, he could only convince a third of his buddies to join him and then God kicked them all out.) 

Here is what I remember about what God "cannot" do: God cannot stop loving you, God cannot lie, God cannot commit evil, God cannot change, God can't do anything that is unjust, etc.

Now, most of those can be challenged, but the biggest one is that he cannot change. That point isn't one that a follower stated, but that He himself said. He cannot and will not change, ever. This could be perceived as a weakness, especially when you look at someone like Satan who's nature seems to encompass change. I think that even Jesus has it in him to change as well.

Lucifer was stated to be second only to God, this would say quite a bit of his power level. When he started the rebellion, as I stated, I don't think the angels would follow someone that they thought would get smacked down easily. And I doubt that the other two thirds fought against Satan. We have no knowledge on how long the war in heaven was, but the fact that Satan did have enough power (or enough confidence in his power) to challenge God should say quite a bit.

But he was never said to be second to god in power, or in anything really. The only logical conclusion to jump to would be that he was second to God in authority, but authority doesn't always = asskicking.

I think it is very fair to assume that he is second to God in power. He is stated to be his greatest and the highest of his angels. This would immediately place him above any other angel. Like I said, him being able to wage a war with God should say something about his power. It was never said how long the war in heaven lasted, it is only described with a short summary. It's like talking about WWII and saying that Germany the Axis powers declared war against the Allied powers, and they were defeated and punished for their acts against mankind.

That short summary doesn't mention any specifics about the war, how long it lasted, the fact that Germany was actually a very powerful nation and was kicking everyone's ass until the United States got involved, etc. So yes, it is logical that he was second in authority, but as it normally goes with gods and any religion/mythology, the second from the highest is almost always a very powerful person. The only examples of Satan's power would be the war, and when he wrecked Job's stuff. It could also be said that he was able to corrupt all of mankind which led to the Great Flood in the first place. Another theory about his power is to consider that angels (unlike humans) don't have free will. They are supposed to do what God says, whenever he says, regardless if they agree or not (assuming they have the ability to disagree). The fact that Satan was able to break himself, and other angels, out of this bind that they had to God is another example of his power.

 Not only that, but people wouldn't fear Satan so much if they thought he was weak. Even when it is said that God will protect you from Satan, it isn't always the case.

The fact is, Satan was placed above any other angel in terms of authority, and that's all we can really know. Satan didn't fight a war with God. When he fought a war with God, he and his men were cast out of the sky like lightning bolts. When he fought a war with Michael and his angels, God was busy casting plagues and shit and then there was actual battling going on.

This implies that he was equal to the rest of the angels in all aspects except his authority and his relationship with god. But this doesn't mean he was weak. I mean, Satan might not be Godlike, but he still has magic powers and shit. Human extras generally don't have a very high power level, y'know.

I can agree with that to a degree. But you have to consider the duel between Lucifer and Michael, in which Michael came out the victor. It is generally agreed upon that Michael was able to defeat Lucifer, God's highest, because God was empowering Michael during the fight. If Michael and Lucifer were really on equal footing, God wouldn't have need to give Michael a boost.

Also, what kind of angels were they? I know Michael and Lucifer are called archangels, but was that just a title? Lucifer being regarded as the highest would indicate that he was a Seraphim. There were only four Seraphims if I remember correctly, and there were only four archangels.

I've been trying out different translations on the internet and re-reading about the War in Heaven. It doesn't say anything about Michael being powered up by god, it just says that they fought and Satan got his ass kicked.

However, I don't know how the fuck angel titles work, the most I know is that names were given to angels and spirits and stuff based on how people experienced them, just like Poltregeist is different from crisis apparition, that's why Grigori are called Grigori and violent angels have some other name, Some people explain phenomena with watching angels and others with violent ones.

EDIT: Just googled it, apparently a Seraphim's job is to praise god while glowing as if they're on fire, kinda like what the apostles were doing when they spoke every language at once.

In my opinion, Satan is overhyped. Wrecking a human's life isn't hard, even another human would be capable of doing that. The reason why people fear Satan is because he is a representation of their own sin, because he resides in each and every one of us and he's hella difficult to kick out. Not many people like the fact that they can't do anything against their own moral flaws. Arguing against your angels point, in my opinions angels do have free will, much like how we as humans do. God never forces us to love him and he gives us free will and choice, so that we may choose to love him. Imagine an engineer who makes a robotic blow up doll and who programs it to say 'I love you almighty master!" each day. Pretty sad, right? This is only my opinion though.

I think the justification for the fact that God cannot change because he is the perfect and absolute form. He is incapable of change in any way because for that to happen, he would be imperfect.

Are we including the fan fiction where God has a wife and grants his followers their own planets? Because if so, I can't imagine Joseph Smith is very high in power level given that he died just from getting a cap busted in his ass.

Lol...
 

Religion isn't something that's supposed to entertain. It's something meant to keep you from crying at night while saying "What's after this?" And the rest of the people that don't use religion as emotional assurance use it cause they don't realize it's a bunch of bullshit.

Having all matter compressed into one coordinate and NOT become a black hole is harder to believe.  And what the fuck is up with that presumptuous username of yours?  I've been hesitating to ask, but shit, you're becoming anything but.

Can you believe that in the future, people will just call it another mythology like the Vikings, Greeks, Romans and Egyptians? Feels weird.

Yeah, I can believe that. Nah, doesn't feel weird at all.

Anyways, what kind of weird posting pattern is this? One that keeps replying to the OP over and over again...I don't even know what to call it...just...weird spam-like posts? Why not just make 1 post in reply like literally everyone in the history of ever has done? Is it to increase post count? It seems like it would be, but the posts are so noobish I can't even tell...

To me it does.

Stop spamming. It hurts. 

No one is spamming here? It's a great discussion. Unless you're talking about me replying to a couple of posts, because if that's the case, define 'spamming'.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Satan(Lucifer) beaten by Michael when Lucifer tried to overthrow God?

Dan just assumes God gives everyone power ups.

From what I read, they just fought with no power ups and Michael came out victorious...
 

Satan just seems like a complete bitch that God could destroy any time he wants, but won't because he's a bell end.

Technically, everyone who does anything does so through the power of God. Even Moses split the sea because God was acting through him, but I wouldn't take it away from Moses.

Also, there are no specifics about how the fight actually went down, so it is perfectly reasonable to speculate that God was aiding Michael in some way.

Just like it's perfectly reasonable to speculate that Satan was godly due to personal bias when no real evidence has been provided? What if the only thing Michael had on Satan was wings and a bunch of rocks? What if Satan is completely physically inadequate and ends up turning out to be like Littlefinger? It doesn't say, you're just making assumptions.

You're goddamn straight I am.

Satanist 4 Life!

 

Not to say that the points you've all brought up don't make complete sense. I'm just complaining that the battle isn't detailed enough to say that Satan was just a weenie, or like you say, very powerful. The only evidence we have is that Satan lost, we don't have any evidence on how he lost or how difficult is was/wasn't to defeat him.

Like I said, the majority of the bible is poetry, and you're supposed to try and draw conclusions based on what's there in the entire poem so that it's message will endure. The point of Revelations was strongly allegorical, so it didn't go into the details of the battle because that wasn't the point, just like they didn't go into the details and family trees of the characters in Animal Farm, because the point was "Stalin Sucks", not "The Horse is a long-lost descendant of King Arthur, and that's why he's strong as shit."

The majority? It doesn't seem like poetry, at least with it's English translation. 

Proverbs and parables.

It's poetry. Shit is purposefully vague, and it's written in verses, made to be interpretted.

So I just did some more reading, and apparently Satan isn't even God's adversary. He's just the guy that goes around putting you through shit to test your faith (as seen in Job and with Jesus) and people are afraid of him because of his methods for doing so and because he might expose their sin and evil.

Now I'm just confused. This would make more sense that Satan is as strong as I thought he was, fine, but where did the Devil come from? If Satan =/= the Devil, and the person who is called the Devil said to be the same person that rebelled against God (Lucifer), how would it make sense that Satan and the Devil are the same person? And who is Jesus supposed to wage the Armageddon battle with?

It's my Vietnamese-book-of-Death-Influenced theory that Satan and Lucifer are just myths and names come up with for the much older  and probably more factual claim that he's the angel of death, before Judaism and Christianity started taking on traits that every other religion had at the time. Lucifer could in fact still be an angel, except Hell is just a Majora's-Mask-style nightmare and the only thing that burns is everything that you were so attached to on earth. You won't see the angels as angels, but rather as horrible monsters and devils tearing your life away from you until you accept that it's time to go.

Lucifer isn't a monster, or an anti-god. He's just as kind and holy as the rest of the goody-two-shoe pansies you were rebelling against to begin with, he just has a shitty job!

Not sure which branches believe this or even if there are any, but I have heard the story that Satan was the original ruler of Hell and existed as long as God did.

Then when Lucifer fucked up, he got cast down and he ended up taking over Hell and replaced the original Satan.

I'm wondering if this tale has some roots from the Zoroster belief system.

My definition of spam is when I get 7 notifications from one person. And as for the being opposite of my username, here are a 3 reasons why. 1. I'm gonna be going into 6th grade soon and it's been stressful prepping. I need something to release my stress. 2. I'm Pmsing and cramps are worse than usual 3. I'm going through that time when you're just starting to be allowed to cus with my friends.

TMI... I never said you were contradicting your username... But, I think you need to redefine your definition of spam. Not all of CYS lives in the same time zone and when I'm on and I see a great discussion and feel like I might contribute to it, I'll contribute to it. Tbh, there are many people who replied as much as me and just because their arguments are more spaced out than mine, it's fine to you? Spamming is not fine in any circumstance, but I don't feel like my replies constitute spam - they're well written and thought out and not just me (° _°) (° _°) (° _°) every five minutes. Also, there are many ways of releasing stress without taking it out on other people (I like going outside to a relatively isolated place and yelling at the sky or an inanimate object and then gazing out at the landscape or a particular water feature for a while :D)

You're going to be doing stressful prepping... over 6th grade. Ridiculous. 

Holy shit my sides! 1 & 3 xD

The only other way to release stress that works for me is becoming emo by biting my wrist.

A good way to relieve stress is to learn something new. Like using threaded view, or how to not reply to the OP every time; but everyone knows those things.

Please... research what an emo kid is before assuming all of them are self-harmers who are depressed about life. Try listening to some All Time Low, 30 Seconds to Mars, My Chem Romance, FOB, etc! Blue-black hair is in! Lip-rings are in, but septum rings are better! Go full on!

All of those bands make me puke, lip rings are better than bull-yankers, and blue-black hair looks ridiculous unless it's natural and you have weird genes.

Since I'm not very familiar with the specifics of the Bible (who needs Bible when you have Qu'ran lolololol) I'll try doing an Islam version. Also I'm not familiar with DBZ power levels and I'm not sure exactly how they work...

Average of everyone (with some exceptions) - 0

Allah - infinite

Cuz none of Allah's creations can compare to Allah. Allah has no weakness.

And the exceptions are probably people like Muhammad, Adam, Moses, Jesus, that one guy who could talk to birds, etc because either they were influential or had some sort of ability(ies) granted by Allah. However as previously established, nothing can compare to Allah's greatness. Not even infinity, but that's the limit for human brains and it's something we can understand (unlike Allah).

I find it strange God can die or has weaknesses or can compare to His creations and whatever the hell is in Christian scripture. I mean, what the hell type of god is that? What the hell type of god has a weakness, or supposedly rivals their own creation?

So, there you go.

From the passages I've read, the Bible says that nothing on earth compares to the power of God. But then again, Satan and all that other stuff are not earthly so :/

The thing about Christianity is that they don't necessarily believe that god ever had any weakness. They believed that he walked around in a human suit for a while and the human suit was the thing that died, not him.

Guys from 3 hours of research and estimations I have come to the conclusion that if an angel is let's say(from a shit ton of reading the Bible) an angel can destroy without completely using up their power destroy the state of Maryland. Now using Master Roshi from when he destroyed the moon. I found that an angel is 22 trillion times weaker than Roshi. PS(Where I am it's 3am)

Okay so either Power Levels are even more bullshitty than we thought or angels are God which would really confuse the idea of a triune God. I'll try using Frieza instead.

PSs(Don't question why i posted in a month old thread. I am in my underwear reading about handwrestling Gods and the density of Hawaii)

"Shit ton of reading" doesn't cut it in a debate like this. source your info.

God, would probably have a power level that is equal to a super Saiyen God, Jesus would have a slightly lower power, and the rest would be really close except for the earth-born characters, probably around 5000 and the most power earth-born character would mostly have the power that is equal to a Super Saiyen or super Saiyen 2.

Satan (or Lucifer, rather) would not be as powerful as God. He would be slightly lower in power or equal to the archangel Michael, as it was Michael who threw down Lucifer from Heaven at God's command (I believe). 

Side note: If I were you i'd check out "A dictionnary of Angels" by Gustav Davidson, which documents all the angels (fallen or not) in Christian lore and gives some descriptions of them as well.

Oh, and make sure to include that dude who killed all those people with a bone, that was badass.

Samson.