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How do you judge people?

one month ago

Just a heads up, because I'm aware of how some people are, the topic of this came from church, and I'm sure some people out there would love to come and complain, bringing up stereotypes, and overall hating everybody. Please, try not to do so. I'm not posting this to encourage someone to ruin someone else's day. It's not worth your frustration, and certainly not the pain of the people you insult. If you want to complain, I recommend you do it in real life so you can worry about people punching you in the face. If you have to, don't say anything.

Anyway, my family and I were at church, and the sermon was about the unfairness of people who praise the Lord every day, and attend church regularly, get to go to heaven, but so does the serial killer, jailed and on death row, that turns to God in his last moments.

I often hear the saying that tells me I should judge people by their actions, not their words. But I've thought about this for some time, and I'm thinking...should I not be judging people– not by what they do– but why they do it? After all, nobody does something wrong without reason, even if the reason was for personal enjoyment. Then, maybe, I might judge a killer. But if someone had a messed-up past, and acted out because they were struggling to come to terms with what happened to them...I get defensive for that person, as if it were myself.

It's even worse when I see all these people around me screaming at each other, when I know very well they're all doing it for some reason. If they could somehow show others their reasons, maybe they wouldn't bring each other down so much. If they just knew, they might stop. You shouldn't, and wouldn't, I hope, hurt someone even though you know they're only acting the way they are because they have a traumatizing past. If you were to "play God", would you not choose to save the serial killer that repented, because you know, and you've seen, that in his mind it was justified?

I'm just trying to see how other people might view this, especially in the idea of being God. Who would you, truthfully, send to heaven? If you've lived their lives firsthand, would you act differently after you log off from your computer? Might you react to news differently, or ponder what others must be going through? I hope that if anything, you'll be more forgiving when it comes to others' bad decisions.

How do you judge people?

one month ago

Well for one thing any serial killer who tries to justify their actions are psychopathic, but then there's those who romanticize about serial killers, or try to justify them even though they're clearly in the wrong. Should we judge those people as harshly as we would a serial killer? I mean clearly they don't see the damage they've done, and if circumstances were different then they would likely also become a serial killer if driven to the edge.

Murder is Murder. Some people go over the edge, and lose control. I can totally understand why they would, or how it was a honest genuine mistake. If a killer is genuine and actual seeks forgiveness, then if the victims family forgives, I don't see why other people can't either.

However, I have no sympathy if a killer themselves is killed in any way, for their life becomes forefeit of sympathy from me after they take someone else's. The only two exceptions for me is if it's in actual life or death self defense, and your life is in total danger, or a criminal is being a real stupid ass and reaches for their pocket when they well know it's going to get them killed by the police. if that's the reason then it's all game to protect yourself. Other than that, mistake or no mistake, you killed someone who you didn't have to, and you deserve anything that comes your way.

Judging non-killers is simple. First impressions matter as everyone already knows, and usally its how they will continue to act, unless your being a suckass for a job interview or something.

 

How do you judge people?

one month ago

I usually laugh at them and say "Ew, what a faggot."

On a serious note, if we're using the case of the serial killer (and we're choosing to accept God, Heaven, and Hell as facts) I don't see why he should get in unless he truly felt sorry for what he did, which... well, I kinda doubt. If you didn't feel bad killing one person, doubt you would killing ten. And from what I've seen, most people like that only do so out of fear, not out of true belief.

How do you judge people?

one month ago
Fffffff you had to post this now. Thread will be a shitshow by the time I get off work and I don't have time to get into anything long winded right now.

Nothing you're asking here is especially new or unique just FYI, people have been thinking about this stuff for centuries, a lot of it is Christianity 101 as in, the literal foundations of Christian worldviews, and if this is stuff you're genuinely interested in there's a lot of writing on it from multiple angles that isn't the opinions of idiot forum goers. (Though you have to be able to read and identify the crazy without becoming the crazy yourself.)

'What if the serial killer is just misunderstood??' meanwhile is Edgy Teenage Writer 101.

How do you judge people?

one month ago

Honestly there's a difference between Killers and Serial Killers. Serial killers are psychopaths who suffer from social and moral retardation, and honestly I feel like their disorder would prevent them from getting the point no matter how many symbolic gestures I made bringing them into heaven. Then again, as a perfect being who can heal all mental and physical wounds, I'm pretty sure I could "Alleviate" their psychopathy anyway. Though honestly I wouldn't really err on the 'faith' side of 'faith and good works', since there are plenty of absolute cockups who'd believe in me anyway. And with other killers, it depends on the who, how, and why mostly.

All in all, I don't think I'd make Hell a permanent situation anyway. If I were in the position to be god, I'd just put people together that work well, reincarnate people here and there to keep shit from being boring, and limit hell and purgatory to maybe a few million enlightenment-seekers who want to be tested and/or dipshits that would amuse me if I smashed their balls in. After that, therapy sessions and self-help retreats for everyone.

How do you judge people?

one month ago

 

I've got a pretty laissez faire attitude when it comes to morality and judging people, so perhaps my own beliefs aren't the best to be held by someone with the power and influence as the government or God himself. All the same, I've always used the barometer of does this person actively make the world a bad place? Do they help their fellow man or tear them down? How do they carry themselves when they think their actions have imputiny? Do they take pity upon those at a worse position in life, or do they blame them for their failures?

The punishing of murders is a sensitive subject. The taking of a life needs to punished, because it's the most vile act a human being can do to another person. Depending upon your religious beliefs, at best you're tearing them away from their loved ones, and at worst wiping out their existence.

Previously I held a pretty adamant belief on the punishments of sexual predators, but recently I've softened on it, as I have many things the older I become. At what point do we as a society embrace honest remorse  as sufficient, provided forgiveness is existent in the circumstances? A bar fight I think we could all agree could be forgiven and forgotten if both parties were willing, but something like rape or murder is an entirely different beast.

I guess if I were an all knowing judge of actions and the morality behind them, I would take a number of factors into consideration. The most important of which would probably be the reasoning for their actions. Beyond that, are they genuinely remorseful for what they've done? Did they receive sufficient punishment for their actions? Does their victim forgive them? Does the loved ones of their victim forgive them? 

Black and white idealogies are dangerous, those dealing with morality even more so. I've had three people try to take my life, and I'm grateful to myself, God, the Universe, who or whatever is responsible that I was able to stay alive. If someone were to take my life and strip me away from my loved ones, I don't believe I'd be capable of forgiving them. I don't like to think about what would happen to the people in my life if they found out they'd never be able to see me again. Make of that what you will.

How do you judge people?

one month ago

I'm pretty sure the parable of the lost sheep (just google it) shows how the Christian god deals with this. JC literally says "there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent." Makes sense, seeing that he's the father of everyone etc. and, therefore, it's as though your child has stopped being an arse.To emphasise this, there's the parable of the prodigal son. Dunno the point of asking us cheeky humans how we would act as God because we obviously aren't all-loving or all-righteous.

About the whole justification thing, JC has god-mode on and can tell whether or not someone's truly repented - so mental gymnastics don't work. Unlucky.

How do you judge people?

one month ago
"I treat everyone the same: poorly."

Have everyone go to heaven - no one gets what they want, no one can answer why, and no one can tell whether they belong. Just like here in this universe. It'd be no different as long as everyone is included all the time. Ignore reasons, ignore actions, ignore people, and in fact just dump it all out - generalizations must be made in order to be fair and the ultimate fairness is including everyone regardless of a majority decision or any decision at all beyond a single universal judgement: humanity is made up of humans and as such should stay humanity made up of humans. Taking any humans out of humanity is unfair and can no longer be considered humanity. Splitting the group creates unecessary and unfair subgroups which exponentially, in fact, factorally increase as the line of separation is blurred to infinity.

As humans we tend to project our own nature onto nature, we think that because we catagorize ourselves, that nature and the dieties - whether existing or not - would also do so. However deep down we all know that ultimately in the most basic sense we are the same; or infinitesimally similar enough that differences have no consequence or advantage. Life is life, as it were.

It would play out like this: a christian priest, chaste through life and exemplifying of all of humanities greatest aspects - a true renaissance man of Earth and all it's glory dies. He meets in the afterlife with what we consider to be the worst: bin laden, hitler, stalin, serial killers, and the like. These people who are in fact disadvantageous to the continuation of our species and who act against humanity. Think about that second-to-previous sentence now - you, just as I've said before, have separated humanity. You have split it unconsciously from itself - by taking what you believe to be the worst of humanity and placing it aside. You have created unfairness amongst the whole and in doing so have projected human nature onto nature; which, despite millenia of self deception, continues without purpose.

"Man in his arrogance thinks himself a great work, worthy of the interposition of a diety." - Carl Sagan

The priest is baffled - angry and frustrated that he has met in the same place as these men who have been mutally damned by the majority. However he soon realizes as he looks around - where he is. It matters not how the setting looks but the people who inhabit it. Everyone is here. Everyone who ever lived. Every animal that has ever died. Every great king and lowly slave. He recognizes, as they have, the shortcoming of humanity. The separation of us all into arbitrary groups. For their actions, their reasons, their relations, and the lives they had. He realizes that as a part of humanity, he has no right - no fundemental right to determine or decide who goes where because of the simple fact that everyone is a part of the whole; and as a whole we are humanity and as humanity we are living and as a part of life this group cannot be separated because in absolute uncaring fairness everyone is equal under the eyes of nature or god or whatever you want to call it.

No form of life has the ability or right to choose what happens to other life. Ultimately, it is always what I will refer to as "nature." It was nature's dispurpose - this unrelenting apethy that the universe holds in the face of all life that ever was and ever will be that unites us and allows fairness to be infinitely continuous. It allows you to step on ants, ending their short times. It allows for all that man is capable of and all that all life can ever do because it is living. Under the shroud of life, or humanity, or any other sufficiently large group the only fair thing to do is to do nothing or something for all without exception.

The priest is no more. Where he has gone - into the same as the rest of humanity. Perhaps reborn, perhaps to a land of wonder - but wherever he is you can be sure that everyone who ever was and ever will be - has or will have been there too.

Ask nature; and you, like all life, will recieve no answer.

And so I judge people arbitrarily. Whether I base on skin color or a presentation they gave in class or their life story or how well I know them or can relate to their situation. It doesn't matter - the laws of nature are the same everywhere and so I know that eventually we all end up in the same place regardless of my inconsequential and factually arbitrary deicision to separate myself or others from the whole.

How do you judge people?

one month ago
Why would it matter whether a killer repents five minutes before they die or a person who believes in God their entire life, when in both cases we're talking about a fraction of an eyeblink of their eternal existence?

What I'd be looking at is whether a person is genuinely wanting to be better and will let me help them do it, and if I'm an omnipotent being in this scenario obviously that's easy enough to figure out.

Of course the real issue here is that we're all shortsighted meat puppets tied to a rock hurtling around an insignificant pinprick of a sun, trying to imagine what we'd do if we weren't.

Questions like this I imagine would be a lot easier to answer if we had literally all the information.

How do you judge people?

one month ago
Or no information and an arbitrary single decision.

How do you judge people?

one month ago

Call it.

How do you judge people?

one month ago

I don't think I understand what you're referencing there, End.

How do you judge people?

one month ago
toss a coin and call heads/tails or in this context heaven/hell or whatever. he's saying make it random.

How do you judge people?

one month ago

oh boy

How do you judge people?

one month ago

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why you don't let the lord of death play God.

How do you judge people?

one month ago

If I was God, I'd either send everyone to heaven or nobody to heaven. Why bother treating people differently? Wouldn't everyone be pretty much the same to an all powerful and all knowing being? I wouldn't bother judging people, it'd just be boring and monotonous. On one hand, if I was God, why would I invite a bunch of much less intelligent and far less interesting people into my home, or heaven. On the other, if I created all these people, wouldn't it be my responsibility to house their souls? I don't really know, but I feel like I'd be a very bored God. I really like this question, though.

How do you judge people?

one month ago
If you're God aren't you already basically everybody, including the bad or boring people though? You know what every being that exists/existed/will exist is thinking and feeling at every point in that existence. So I imagine at that point it's more a case of finding a way to filter out the really vile and evil people you don't want being a part of you. Which might actually be fairly complicated because you're what...shoving them outside of existence? Or is it the bad parts only? The latter is what Jesus makes possible if you're looking at it from a Christian standpoint, but then that's by request only I guess so God isn't rewriting people's personalities or whatever without consent. That's very polite of him if you think about it.

Making bad people cease to exist doesn't do any good because if they EVER existed you're still stuck with them, and at the same time every being advanced enough for moral choices will eventually do something you hate.

Or as God you'd just be really good at partitioning this stuff, I honestly don't know. I actually really like this kind of thought exercise, but it gets overwhelming pretty quickly.

How do you judge people?

one month ago

I mean, the basic tenant of Christianity isn't about morality. Contemporary society turns Heaven and Hell into a "For the good", "For the Evil" type place like the Greek Underworld or some shit, but that's not what Christianity does. They say that no one deserves to get into heaven. Their actions, their words, nothing matters, because they're all evil. It's just that God loves everyone, so he's willing to let them off by having tortured himself for some reason. But yeah.

Anyhow, I'd imagine if I was God I'd do a lot differently, like A. Not letting people be born with psychopathic tendencies, so dealing with serial killers would never be something I'd have to face and everything would be great always. However, I doubt that's the answer you want, so instead we'll go with "What if I was an Anubis-type judge picking who goes to Heaven and Hell" rather than a God. I actually had a discussion like this the other week.

In practice, we punish serial killers for two practical reasons, ideologies aside: As a deterrent and as we can't let them roam free and continue killing.That's why I support locking criminals up when they do evil shit, because for society to function, we need to, we can talk about justice, but that's a metaphysical idea, and if we go into philosophical shit, we're kind of fucked for the following reason:

Really, we start off as babies, pure and innocent. We develop into serial killers either due to nature or nurture. Nature isn't our choice, as we don't pick to be sociopaths. Nurture isn't our choice, because we don't pick to be abused. You can't really blame anyone for their choices to any degree. If any of us were born with the same brain connections as Ted Bundy in the same family, we'd become a serial killer so at that point. Ultimately by that logic the only moral thing to do is let everyone go to heaven, as they never decided to be evil and thus we can't blame them for it. Otherwise, the system is just like End's, a game of absolute chance, only instead of a coin flip, it's where you're born and how your brain functions. Still, I think anyone who reads that will know it seems wrong at our core to not have ANY justice. Our reptilian brain wants justice, so I don't really want to send everyone to paradise for ever.

Ultimately at my core, I feel like heaven and hell seems like a shitty false dichotomy. No one deserves eternal paradise after all the pain they've caused, but no one deserves eternal punishment. Ideally, there'd be some sort of scheme where you're forced to feel every harm you intentionally caused another sentient being a few times, until the person truly understands the gravity of their actions. Then once they come to terms with that, let 'em off into paradise. It might not be as moral as sending everyone immediately there, but it's an idea that satisfies both halves of my mind, so that's my choice. Fuck it though, if that's not an option and I'm sticking with the dichotomy, just send everyone to paradise and let my lizard side stew in annoyance. 

Probably not pure bliss paradise, more like a perfect version of Earth where you work for a bit at a job you like, face and overcome adversery and everything's pretty good.