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I'm not trying to hate, but what is the point of Christmas? Yeah yeah Jesus's birthing, but then why is Christmas so... not religious? Like for instance, the Christmas tree. First of all, what does a pine tree have to do with Jesus's birth? Shouldn't it be a palm tree? Also, Santa. What's up with that guy?

Have any Christians out there questioned why they do things the way they do? 

It's an assimilated pagan holiday.  Don't question it, bro.

Well, I'm not Christian, but I enjoy this time of year all the same. Ho ho ho! Merry Christmas!

So you're not Christian but you still celebrate Christmas?

Yes! Ho ho ho! Merry Christmas!

...

Why?

EDIT: Soz if I'm asking too many questions

Ho ho ho! Why not?

I can't explain... it's like a Christian celebrating Hanukkah (Sorry if mispelled). 

I just do it for the free moneh! Ho ho ho!

My Dad was Jewish and celebrated Christmas... it's not that uncommon when your loved ones do it. :P 

That's interesting. Maybe its because how religiously attached one is. I remember my uncle slapping me just for missing a prayer XD

I also know this Jewish kid who eats cafeteria meat at my school. My school does not serve kosher anything.

Non-Christian people celebrate Christmas for a different reason: fun.

I'm sure Hanukahh would be fun too, but I don't celebrate it (and probably non-Jewish folk too) for a reason.

Why not just celebrate all holidays just for the fun?

I can't say a lot of Jewish Holidays can/should be labeled as 'fun', assuming you're practicing them correctly. I mean, if you're celebrating holidays just for fun why not just make up your own? You're already missing the point.

You're right, Tan. The only experience I have of Jewish holidays was my friend's Bar Mitzvah and those wood cube things they spin on Hanukahh. So I guess I can't say if they would be fun or not.

However, he told me non-Christians celebrate Christmas for fun. I told him why not any holiday, why just Christmas. I regret to in form you I do not understand how I have missed any points.

(Dreidel!)

Please don't take offense, but I feel you've missed my point haha. Also, I wasn't referring to 'you', Fazz with that last post. Sorry for the confusion.
What I was pointing out was the holidays are made on religious values and should be celebrated through spiritual improvement and/or family unity, not parties or video games. Sometimes you can get both of those things in a party, but usually everything just goes to materialism and everyone misses the point of the holiday (and I'll admit that I'm guilty to this as well).

I mean, holidays should be very enjoyable. But if you're celebrating holidays just to have fun then you're not celebrating the holiday; you're celebrating yourself (and the day off).
Just wanted to point that out.

Seems to be the default winter holiday.

That's just because of how much attention it gets. Honestly, I don't even know why or how they celebrate Hanukah, but for SOME REASON, I know exactly what goes on during a Christmas celebration.

Why, are you a Hindu or something?

No (XD). I'm Muslim.

Just look around this time of the year. Commercials, children's' specials, school breaks... its literally everywhere.

Yet when I take off school because of Eid I'm practically interrogated by my fellow peers about this mysterious holiday they've never heard of.

What's Eid?

In very simple terms, its a holiday Muslims celebrate.

I Googled it.  When I got to the word "fasting," I quickly closed the tab.

Well, fasting is different for many different cultures and religions. I think some religions allow fruit and water, while some don't digest anything. Muslims go for the latter, but it only lasts until sunset.

I remember I was 12 when my dad first allowed me to fast. I was like a god amongst my other Muslim friends, since they weren't allowed yet at the time.

So do you eat a lot after sunset?

And before sunrise (before fasting is put on-affect).

That was actually a joke.  I was about that age when I started going days without food (my record was four).  The euphoric sense that you get is amazing.  You think more clearly.  It doesn't help to over exert yourself like delivering the Sunday paper in the snow, but I would recommend it at least once for a couple days during the course of ones life.

Happy Eid! Ho ho ho!

xD

Edit:  You probably shouldn't...

*Happy Eid! Allahu Abkbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!

Of course! And a happy New year!

Well, that's more present on Eid al-Adha (not Eid al-Fitr which was what I was referring to).

Yeah I acknowledged it was a joke. I just wanted to point something out :P

I feel you bro. I still don't know what they do on Hanukahh. :(

Well, the Christians were the first eastern religion that got to America first and then murdered everyone who disagreed with them, I'm personally not surprised at all that a nation that's been pretty devoutly Christian (whose Jew population only really kicked off during WWII, I think) for hundreds of years celebrates its Christmas loudly, commonly, and in graphic detail.

Well, of course. I was questioning why they do it the way they do, and why some non-Christians celebrate it.

Well, a lot of Christmas shit that people do in the U.S. started in Germany/Poland/France/Other Cold, Miserable, Europe places, which really got around Europe. There's a helluva lot of German/Polish/Cold and Miserable immigrant families in the US, so they brought that here. That's why they do it the way they do. Since this place has been devoutly and loudly Christian for generations, and since a lot of media assumed that everyone was Christian until about 40 years ago (Even then,)  there's a shit ton of Christmas specials that time of year that depict pretty much everything there is to know about it and since a lot of people have had Christian family or know Christians personally, it's pretty much the one holiday that everyone knows how to celebrate. And other than imagery, it's a pretty religiously neutral holiday anyway, you just put up a tree and eat candy out of your socks, nothing specifically Christian about it, unless you're doing one of those weird Catholic things...

So basically you're telling me, one day some European folk decided to string up a tree and give each other presents whilst speaking about some being known as 'Santa' just because?

Naw man. I'm sure there's have to be some explanation to why its done the way it is.

No, I'm saying the reason is that because of its relative religious neutrality, simplistic traditions, absurd popularity and commercialism, it's generally the default name for a basic winter holiday celebrated by anyone whose religion doesn't tell them to celebrate some other shit. If you want the reason it's done the way it is, you'll have to look up the history. I just know that Santa and most of the ornaments we have today came from that general area of Europe, among other things. The date came from Pagan Festivals celebrating light coming into the world since every day after the middle of winter generally gets longer, missionaries took this as an opportunity to preach. ("Light's coming into the world? Pff, I'll tell YOU about light coming into the world! JESUSJESUSJESUSJESUS!")  everything else is basically a mishmosh of shit from everywhere that really culminated in Europe, and when the U.S. became New Europe, Christmas became the resident superholiday.

^^This

Okay. So then... why bother celebrating Christmas at all? Why not just give and be jolly and what have you on a daily basis? That's what I don't get. Knowing that, generally, Christmas is just BS in some areas and pagan/christian belief in others, why bother at all?

Because selflessness is not human nature. I'm not sure what kind of answer will satisfy you there.

Christmas and those beliefs are indeed BS when you look at it from a logical standpoint.

As I said earlier, "Fuck you give me money! You buy somefing o' get ou'! You no money?! Get ou'! Get ou' uh store! This my store! You no come back till you have money! No come back! I fuck you now! Ligh' now! Fithy American! Ou' uh store! No gif' fo' yew! Sad Christmas!"

I've never heard of that, penguin.

@ISentinelPenguinI

I'm an atheist and I celebrate Christmas. Christmas isn't even a Christian holiday, it's pagan.

So you're not pagan but you still celebrate Christmas?

I'm not trying to offend. I know people celebrate holidays they aren't necessarily a part of, but the concept is strange to me.

Like I said, it's for the moneh.

Saying I'm not pagan yet still celebrate it can be reversed on Christians (at least the non stubborn ones). Don't worry, I'm not offended.

Anyway, from what I understand of it, Christmas is just about the exchanging of gifts with those you love (or tolerate) and those that are less fortunate than you.

Also, as coins said, the Americanized version of Christmas is "Fuck you give me money! Fuck you give me presents! Fuck you, you get nothing!"

That makes sense, but that doesn't explain why its done the way it is. Why need a tree at all? Or Santa? And why should you give just around this time? Why not year round?

EDIT: I mean why is it ENCOURAGED just this season.

Because it's been around for a thousand years, and people are used to it.

So when you ornate a Christmas tree you just think 'This is the way its always been done, whatever,' AKA putting blind faith in?

EDIT: That also doesn't answer why "being jolly" is solely encouraged this season.

Look, I don't know, I just like the holiday! Don't question it! Have a cookie!

If I wanted to, I could buy the cookies myself during June just because.

Because "Fuck you give me money!"

Since people are inclined to follow what they believe (in this case Christians), it's possible that corporations may use this to their advantage when they put certain things on sale since theists may feel inclined to go out and get something for their kids and/or friends.

On top of that, Santa may serve as a sort of placebo for the youth, or those who believe in him in general. The placebo that is Santa Claus wouldn't work if you advertised it all the time. "If you be good, Santa will give you gifts." This would generate a very selfish attitude, so using Santa all the time wouldn't be a good idea. We have God for that.

As to why does it have to be this particular time of the year, I honestly don't know. I know the pagans just considered it the time of giving, so there's that.

Anyway, that's my short little rant on it.

EDIT: Santa isn't the only Christmas being as you know. There is also Krampus, who would kidnap and punish kids who misbehaved. It sort of paints the whole God (Santa) vs Satan (Krampus). I'm pretty sure Santa (Saint Nick) has some Christian roots though I could be mistaken.

I would just like to point out that if you rearrange the letters in 'santa claus' it spells 'satan lucas'. This must mean that Satan and George Lucas had an illegitimate son. The world and star wars canon as we know it will never be the same.

Yes, I know what I said. Just imagine that this joke happened before the Disney thing.

@Danaos

*sigh*  Even Cracked knows better than that:

"The centerpiece of this argument is the fact that Christmas is celebrated on December 25th -- once observed as the winter solstice -- and that there was also a major pagan holiday celebrated around the winter solstice (Saturnalia). But Saturnalia wasn't on December 25th (it ran from December 17-23), and it's unlikely that there would have been much celebrating happening on the 25th, since everyone was still hungover from Saturnalia, and trying to build a foundation for the New Year's festival drunk, which (starting all the way back in 153 B.C.) began on January 1st.

Christ's unfortunate, one-gift-counts-for-both birthday of December 25th started with the A.D. 204 writings of Hippolytus of Rome. He figured it by starting with March 25th, the accepted date of Jesus's death since at least A.D. 200. Add in the fact that, according to Jewish Talmudic tradition, all righteous men died on the same day they were conceived, and Jesus' conception must have also taken place on March 25th. Then basic biology tells us that nine months after conception comes the birth: December 25th.

There was a smaller pagan festival called Sol Invictus (Unconquered Sun), which, besides sounding like a Vin Diesel movie, did celebrate the winter solstice on the 25th. However, Sol Invictus wasn't created until A.D. 274 (well after Hippolytus did his hump-math) by the Roman Emperor Aurelian. In fact, there's even a good possibility that Sol Invictus was created to provide a pagan alternative to the Christian celebration, rather than the other way around."

Well I did say that I could be wrong. :P

Much appreciated for the links, but it pulls at my heartstrings when you compare me to Cracked Kiel. ;_;

double post

quote from my rant thread

Ooooh, Christmas. Well, Christmas. I don't 'love' Christmas, but I don't hate it either. decorations, shiny, stuff, everyone is happy for no reason . Or with reason. I don't know. I don't care. I do consider the religious part of it utter bullshit, but hey, I consider religion an outdated thing that should just fade into obscurity along with disco. Fuck you Jesus. One thig I do love about Christmas is Santa. Yes, Santa Claus, the fat bearded asshole who breaks into your house to make you happy. The base of the story makes no sense and it varies from person to person. We all know Santa's not real but if you dare tell me otherwise in person I will punch you with a smile and act retarded because fuck you, play along you fucking douchebag. Nauhty, nice, well that's for the kids. Presents, oh yes, nice to get them but I actually do not give a fuck on presents. All I care is to smile , act like it's serious business and make Santa propaganda because I want to. I love the fat bastard. No homo. Really, you sick perv, I hate old people, but I do not consider Santa old, I consider him an ageless representation of "FUN STUFF YEAH" and fun is FUN and I enjoy it. I dont care what you say I will act like Santa is real fuck you. Then , after Christmas I will act like nothing happened. BECAUSE NOTHING HAPPENED. santaaaa gloooooooooorious santa he will give you presents, ho-ho-ho your whole fucking daaaaaaaaay and commit the biggest break-in in world history all around the globe once a year for his own reasons and there's nothing you can do about it you fucking faggot. GO GO TEAM SANTA

Just make sure he doesn't land his sled on your head. Oh,  by the way I imagine his sled to actually be a red convertible dragged backwards by a pack of wolves across the night sky at 400 mph. I just picture it that way. 

Christmas is not Jesus' birthday. Despite that fact, it still is a fun holiday, everyone gets gifts.

Of course it is, it's even in the name.

In Iceland, Christmas is called Jól (as in Yule) and Santa Clause's name in Iceland would directly translate to "Yuleman", or "Yulemen" since there are thirteen of them (and kids get a gift from each one).

The argument of the holiday belonging to Christ because of the name always backfires in Iceland because according to that logic, here it belongs entirely to Santa, or the multiple Santas.

Speaking of them, before the kind western idea of Santa arrived and we made all our thirteen Santa Clauses like that, they were baby eating maniacs according to myths and parents used them to scare children away from going outside in December since it could get to cold the children could die, although I'm not sure why the parents didn't just tell them that and use that to scare them.

Also, about the whole traditional decorations and such, I only do them because I spend Christmas with my family, if I ever spent it alone I'm pretty sure I wouldn't bother as I view it as very pointless busywork.

Thirteen monsters carrying around sacks to gather up children to eat them was probably a more frightening image to little kids than simple ice and snow (which they see all the time) and telling them "Hey extreme cold can be dangerous, don't go out there."

I guess that's true, I just wish they had given them scarier names than "Doorslammer", "Sausagestealer" and "Potlicker" and such. You'll never guess what each of those guys does.

They were more like the dwarves from Snow White than monsters, except the cannibalism part.

Then in Greece the name argument should stop all conversations since it's called "Χριστο?γεννα" literally meaning "Birth of Christ"

For them, yes, but if you claim that the name makes the holiday belongs to Christ then surely you can't be referring to languages you have handpicked to support your own point, can you? That must go for all languages, correct? Because if that is the case then Christ's connection to the holiday will depend entirely on where you happen to be located.

Well, I don't really care about what Murikans and Icelanders do in the 25th... But by all means, if you want to celebrate but not accept that you're celebrating the birth of the Saviour then be my guest and be happy for no reason :P

Yes, because if I'm not happy for the same reason you are that means I'm not happy for any reason...

That's not what I meant. But the Holyday suposedely happens for some reason. It's not like people around the globe gathered and said "IN THE 25TH, WE SMILE FOR NO REASON!" 

Well, you did use the term "be happy for no reason" when referring to me during Christmas.

Also, my original point was that hanging the purpose for the holiday on the name when the name itself varies between countries is futile.

St. Nicholas was your OG Santa (meaning Saint in a few latin languages) Claus and in dutch, Sinterklaas (hint hint Klaas hint hint) was the way to say St. Nicholas.  Kinda like his larger-than-life  counterpart, he was pretty generous with his resources as a bishop (today, they don't own much other than what they need to work with in the church, but back in the day, they were above landowners and on occasion, lords and ladies).  Essentially, the gifts he gave somehow got corrupted into a business strategem.

Kinda lazy to figure out the tree thingy, but I'd assume it's something about what SindriV mentioned or whatever.

Yeah, plenty of times, but once I get things explaining I 1) bore the fuck outta people 2) makes people nod their heads and go..."oh".  And no, I know less than 1% of the Bible, so I don't usually have to point out the Writer #:# thingy.

All this I pulled out of Wikipedia, but eh, that's the gist of it.

I didn't say anything about the tree, and I have no idea what that's supposed to be. Maybe the flaming bush form God took when speaking to Moses? Maybe that's why people decorate it with bright lights. I don't know, just guessing.

I think the tree was capped with a star in Christian places to symbolize the star-marker he gave off for the three magi ppl.

But usually, the more conservative Christians have the wreath.

Kinda

Found Iceland's 13 Baby Eating Santas. (And their parents!)

http://www.iceland.is/images/the-icelandic-yule-lads.jpg

 

Yeah, Grýla (their mother) was the real monster children feared, and still is to this day.

There's also their cat, which eats children who don't wear new clean clothes at Christmas. Because using fear to get children to behave.

Wow, look at these thugs. 'Harassing' sheep? Pot licking?! Door slamming?!?!1!1! What menace!

Thank God for Murica.

Almost seems like these guys just rob you blind and spread germs on your kitchenware rather than eat your babies.

Well except for the one guy who apparently rapes your sheep.

In Greece we also have that "if you don't eat your food/behave the monster will take you (or the nigger, or something like that)"

I don't think either group is racist.

Christians needed to garner pagan support so they adopted a few of their holidays. Why the hell do we pay homage to a rabbit for Jesus's resurrection?

It doesn't have to make sense; it's religion ;)

"Well you see little Bo, the rabbit is for Centzon, the tree is for Odin, and the gathering is for Cthulhu." 

Cause there is no formed Christian tradition. It either is on the bible, or it's pagan. And this is why I hate Evangelicans.

You keep using that term, I don't think you know what it means

I may have confused them with another group.

I know what they are.

The term I use for non-Orthodox Christians is heretic.

Good, 'cause I don't think they even know what they are. XD

Edit: Do you mean non-Orthodox Christians or non-Orthodox Christians?

Well...  For Christians, the whole point of Christmas, is actually gifts.  Or to say more specifically, 'The Gift.'

This how I usually explain Santa to little kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsxPi8Vcttk