Well, there doesn't seem to be a thread about this. It's amazing, one of the best Star Wars we've ever had. Makes Force Awakens look like a peace of shit. It's chock-filled with references, has cool aliens, has a totally badass Vietnam War thing in one battle and an Al-Qaeda thing in another, the characters are cool and interesting for the most part, it makes Darth Vader infinitely more badass, has a badass Robot, a cool space battle and some of the most kickass battles I've ever seen. Despite my fears for a permanently kid-friendly star wars under Disney, this movie isn't afraid to go a darker route. Genuinely, I dare say that to someone without the sheen of nostalgia towards the originals, this could be the best one barring Empire Strikes Back. Basically, not only does it stand up in its own right, it infinitely improves New Hope, and is just fantastic in all degrees.
Axiom is bad and wrong and probably smells bad.
Shit. I have to go watch Rogue One. *is dragged from computer while typing* Nuuuu!!!!!!
I haven't seen it, but now that I know you like it I hate it.
Good to know that I'm so important in your life my will literally decides whether you like a movie or not.
XD So does this mean this guy is your polar opposite? He must be gay, and not tied to a chair... Wow.
Steve's a depraved bisexual actually, so that means Patar is neuter if he's his opposite.
Hmmm. Interesting. Well then, Patar Is still a weirdo.
This movie literally sucked. 4/10 in my mind.
Here's a review that I agree with:
So far Disney Star Wars movies and me have a major problem. I can't get over how mind-numbingly boring they are.
I never planned on seeing this movie. I didn't see any of the trailers or even know that it was "the story the lead up to A New Hope" before my friends persuaded me to go. I disliked The Force Awakens so my expectations for this were very low and I still was unimpressed.
I am shocked with just how bad the first hour and a half of this movie is. The story is about as predictable as it gets. Writers are willing to take no risks or creative liberties. Just play it safe and force in a bunch of throwbacks for the old fans!!! Granted the callbacks to the originals were not nearly as bad as TFA, but every time there is something I can't help but moan at how forced it is. It felt like every scene, with the exception to the opening, was one I had already seen in another Star Wars film. The characters were some of the stalest characters I have seen in awhile, but I'll write that up to a byproduct of the horrible screenplay. I keep hearing what a great character K-2SO was, but he just came off as so contrived and shoehorned in for some very cheap laughs. Even the action scenes during this part were incredibly lame. I also felt like the editing was way to jumpy during this part. Like some of the cuts felt like they would have cut it for the battle scenes.
I liked the last 30 minutes a lot better but still had a lot of flaws. Action scenes were a lot better. Still some deus ex machina bullshit, but everyone dies so we never have to see them again (thankfully). This will be the last new Star Wars release I see in theaters. I'm done with the new direction of Star Wars. I hope you're happy you greedy Disney bastards.
Finally, Tarkin straight up looks like a Source Filmmaker model.
That review doesn't even address how many absolutely fucking stupid plot holes there were. "Yo guys, these plans exist and I designed a huge flaw in them... you should go get the plans, I'm not going to send you them myself as part of this message that I sent out, because that would be too easy. Also, once you find them, you should send them electronically up to your ship so that they can make only one copy and put it on a floppy disk and not beam it to the other 50 ships that all warped out of there."
If someone can literally look at that middle eastern ambush scene and think it was bad, they are a literal retard. They had endless references without being forced. I don't remember there being any deus ex machina, and they're both complaining of the "new direction of Star Wars" and "predictable", because yeah, protagonists that murder innocent people for their cause or actually have moral nuance as well as everyone dying is such a Star War staple at this point. The characters were actually interesting and even the ones in the background had little moments that actually gave them personalities, I don't know how anyone could even try argue he's shoehorned in or contrived. The only plot hole mentioned (Which doesn't mention that it covers up one of the biggest plot holes of the originals) is that Hannibal didn't send the plans, which he didn't have as he was a small part of a team, there's a lot of people working on the project, and that they send it to one ship, but yeah, sending the data took time and a massive radio tower thanks to the size of the files. Once they got it out there, they assumed it was safe. If you're going to seriously say why not just send the files rather than put it on a disk, that's a plothole they couldn't get around as they were in the original movie, but no one bitched about that. Hell, the fact that you say "Warped" which isn't even a star wars term shows that you're an idiot.
I don't know how you could possibly have found those characters interesting. I'm serious... when they died I was pretty pumped because I knew I'd never have to deal with their boring asses ever again. Seriously, literally all of them were flat as fuck. Jyn was the classic rebel with ties to the foe (and all the attached baggage), Cassian was the cardboard cutout extremist rebel turned human by our loveable protagonist, the blind dude who fights was LITERALLY just the blind dude who fights (but he also had an annoying as fuck gimmick catchprase) and his companion played the role of 'generic companion' with the tropey bonus of "super sad when friend dies". Seriously, I question whether you've ever seen a movie with compelling characters before. Have you seen In Bruges or more recently, Nocturnal Animals? Fuck, man, Mad Max had better characters and that was action, not even sci/fi adventure. Rogue One force feeds you baby food backstories and expects you to empathize... there's no nuance. Luckily there's tons of people like you to eat that shit up! You are the cinematic baby birds that encourage these shit studios and directors to regurgitate their stomach contents into your gaping mouth-holes.
As far as your retort about the plot holes:
1. If the guy was able to send a video message and had enough knowledge about the plans to put a horrible debilitating failure in them, then he could DEFINITELY have conveyed in the video message how to exploit, instead of telling them to go somehow infiltrate a locked down planetary compound that he can't have rationally thought they had a chance to actually deal with.
2. If the plans can be beamed into space, then they can be received by all of the ships. There's literally no reason to end up with a hard copy. Super dumb. They could easily have written around the original films by not fucking beaming the info into space. If they just removed the actual giant antenna and sent the hard disk out of the base in physical form, that would have handled that. It's a shit film that can't even write a basic script. Your response will inevitably be a shit comment about Star Wars tech that somehow justifies ships that can travel FTL but can't receive a goddamn file. Stupid writing for a stupid franchise.
One day you'll be able to discern shit bubblewrapped moneygrabs from actual films, and then we'll be able to have actual conversations about cinema. I look forward to it. Until then, I can't wait to hear about how great you thought every last detail of every garbage blockbuster was. Here's a movie recommendation, I'm sure you'll love it!
Only saw this now. My bad.
Jyn wasn't even a fucking rebel, she said at several points she had no commitment to the cause, that was the entire thing about her character, you absolute muppet. Maybe watch the fucking film if you wanted to see that. Yeah, the cardboard cutout extremist rebel, like we see all the time in Star Wars. His scene literally fucking opens with him offing a dude, which yeah, adds a bit of nuance to the generic good chracters of all the other star wars films. The fucking robot was hilarious and badass, but you seem to skip over him, and the companion has the role of the jaded warrior who's seen his life's work crumble under the empire, not just generic companion. And oh yeah, he was sad when his friend died. What a fucking trope that is. Maybe hollywood should get original and have him dancing for fucking joy then. Seeing as we get the backstory of only the protagonist, you're once again talking out of your ass there. There's plenty of nuance that there sure as fuck wasn't in the original Star Wars films, seeing as we actually get to see that the rebels are a fragmented group as they rightfully fucking should be and they have extremists and do bad shit,
1. No, clearly fucking not. If he was in charge of only the actual reactor, they'd still need the plans in order ot take down the ship. Be being able to know something's reactor is it's weakspot doesn't solve how the fuck I'd be able to actually use that knowledge, which is why they needed theplans. What, is the thought that the entire rebel force can't infilitrate an entire base too hard for your brain to process as reasonable? They managed to infiltrate the base without the support of most of the rebel leaders barring the Admiral, it would've been a hell of a lot easier with all of their support.
2. Oh yeah, at this point it's made clear it's just another generic twat who likes to shit on things so he can appear to have some sense of wiseness in what he watches, because everyone loves the bullshit that is bullshit critiquing is smarter. You don't even get the response before "Fuck your justification! I don't care! It's all shit and I'm not listening!"
Oh good, the artsy wanker's refuge in "Blockbuster's shit, I only go for "Smart" cinema." Go jerk off over your bullshit films and stop trying to appear more intellectual in shitting on great movies. Yeah, because blockbuster is analogous for shit in your artsy, bullshit eyes. Maybe get ... over your own pretentious "intellectualism" and rewatch the film.
Jyn absolutely was a rebel by the end. She was a prototypical rebel archetype if I've ever seen one. Dude she literally was fucking preaching rebel gospel and teaching rebels how to rebel like halfway through. If you didn't think she was a rebel simply because that's what Edwards tells you at the beginning, then I'm not surprised that you thought this film was deep.
I didn't say we see Cassian clones all the time in Star Wars, I said we seem them all the time in general because he's such a clowny trope. He's novel for Star Wars, whoop de do. The robot was hilarious and bad ass? On what planet? He was sooooo boring. Star Wars has struck out so many times since R2D2. The robot in interstellar was more interesting and that film also sucked ass.
Dude, you just summarized the companion in one boring ass line that encapsulates his entire personality: that's super lame, he's super lame, and you're super lame for thinking that gimmicky robot is a deep character.
It seems like you're under the impression that this is a gritty film with depth of character, but these characters could be written by more than half of the users on this site. If I pitched this shit in the WW, you'd rightfully laugh. Better yet, in an RP:
"lol ok so my character is a badass chick with a vendetta because her daddy was taken and forced to work for the evil empire when she was a child and her mother is dead and now she's all broken and moody."
"lol ok so my character is a blind dude who can fight well and has one catchphrase. He's funny but a super good guy and always SEES the best in people. get it? SEES THE BEST IN PEOPLE!"
"lol ok so my character is that last guy's friend. He's jaded because of the evil empire but he cares a lot about his optimistic friend and that keeps him going. He's so loyal." It just occurred to me that he's basically nothing more than a service dog, actually. What a deep character!
Anyway, yes, it exceeded the nuance of a couple of films that came out in the mid 70s that weren't good because they were nuanced. Congratulations! A good movie that does not make.
1. What the fuck, dude! How can you justify a guy knowing enough about a system to put a super detailed flaw in it not being able to access that same information? He literally gave them nothing about how to exploit it, which is ludicrous. If the film had given some backing and support to your theory that he was super limited, then sure, I'd be more forgiving. But you're just making shit up. Occam's Razor supports my position. The dude was a high level scientist with a high security clearance and he had enough sway and ability to plant a massive flaw that no one else could notice... and he couldn't even access the very plans containing that flaw? That's insanely unlikely and I'm not accepting it without some fucking cinematic justification. Same reason not flying into Mordor on the backs of Eagles is a plot hole, but at least Tolkien gave a token mention to the fact that they don't like to interfere with mortal business.
2. Yep. There it is! You're mad that someone doesn't like what you like and you're mad that you're not a discerning watcher. That's fine, man. It's okay for you to like a shit film but it's a shit film with a bunch of plot holes and me pointing them out doesn't mean that I "like to shit on things". Dude, I liked The Life of Pablo by Kanye West. I like a lot of shit that's easy to point out flaws in, but unlike you, when I like something shitty, I can admit it.
Also I loved lots of Blockbusters. Mad Max and Arrival were both awesome. The Revenant was awesome. Those films are actually well thought out and more than just stupid cashgrabs. This film was a stupid cashgrab for people who like dumb characters. It's fine if you just wanted to have a good time and you don't try to laud it as a cinematic masterpiece, but it's hilarious that you actually think this was a good piece of cinema. You a Nickelback fan too? Is it okay to shit on them?
Yeah, she sympathizes with the rebel cause at the end, but she clearly wasn't a fucking rebel, as she says she doesn't give a shit about the cause. How is she a generic rebel if she spends most of the movie not being one? You just have certain boxes you want to quash the characters into, so that's what you're doing.
Yeah, every character is going to conform to some general outline, that's just how cinema works. We've never seen a character like this in star wars, and he's a new change from the usual in the universe. Also, the robot was badass on Jedha, and Scarif and Yavin 4. (I know that's not what you meant, but you phrased it in a funny way given they do go to several worlds). He was a fucking great character. I don't know how you could even try debate that.
Oh good, you summarized the characters in an insulting way. You can do that with literally any character.
"lol ok so my character is a hitman who killed a kid but by accident and now hes sad but only when it suits the narrative and also hes happy and silly and makes jokes but he doesnt even like the place hes in".
See how fucking useless a point that is?
1. Super-detailed as in "I have it so any explosion would cause a chain reaction". Yeah, if that's super-detailled, I definitely see the high standards you hold for films not being nuanced or detailed enough for you. Really, does Occam's Razor support your theory that he was given the plans despite being a traitor and not having a high security clearance which is never shown despite you still saying it, rather than people being secretive about their plans? Yeah, that's definitely true. It's so unlikely that he wouldn't be given details about things that don't matter to him, just because he's a scientist.
1. Oh good, you like some random piece of shit. Terrific for you. When I hate a film, I don't say I don't care if anyone has any solutions to the plot holes I point out.
Oh, you liked two culturally loved films that there's no way you could've hated and an artsy jerk off. Good for you, definitely shows that you don't just hate on shit because the majority likes it. Terrific, glad you pointed this out.
EDIT: Oh shit, wait a second, we decided to stop arguing, didn't we? Fuck, forgot that.
So... Liking two popular films makes him a contrarian just because he doesn't like this one?... I don't get this point.
No, I think he's shitting on Rogue One because he wants to seem more intellectual as people tend to when they shit on things, and I think the fact that he likes two universally loved films doesn't negate that fact.
lol! You're the gatekeeper of what people are not allowed to dislike and if they dislike it, then they are just pretentious. What's something you dislike and why does disliking it not make you a pretentious intellectual just trying to look smart?
Well, this was an amazing movie, and you're a prententious jerk off trying to be an intellectual in hating it, but I'm sure I act similarly to other movies. I'm pretty sure all the movies I hate are just bad, thought I doubt I'd know if it was otherwise.
Right, I'm pretentious because you think this film was amazing. Sounds like you're the one pretentious enough to think that your taste is the gold standard for what people are allowed to dislike without being egoists.
The film was amazing.
QED.
Yes, and as I've said, anyone who isn't a pretentious jerk-off can read how filmsy your arguments are, or just see the film, to prove that point.
The post I'm replying to is literally devoid of content.
It only seems that way because it's so greatly outshined by its response.
"I'm right because everyone can see that I'm right"
I'm right, as you can see if you watch the movie or look at all the points. What other response is there other than repeating the same arguments as we descend into a circle of that?
This is stupid.
Everyone who can't see or admit that it's got major flaws. It's okay to like something with flaws, but if you can't even see them, then you're not a discerning watcher, which is also fine, but it is annoying how much these franchises make.
I'm saying that you're not discerning watchers because you think a whole bunch of flat characters are not flat. I've supported that in a lot of posts. Unlike you, Steve has actually responded to that. He and I are making actual arguments. You are not.
My arguments don't hinge on agreeing/disagreeing with me.
Are you seriously trying to argue that because there are some stupid posts in this thread, that none of the walls of text that he and I have exchanged contain actual points?
It's a lot more than you've done in this thread. You're just a strange guard dog for Steve. I hope he feeds you well.
No? What are you even talking about? You don't make any sense... but I hope that takes off because it's pretty funny.
So you're saying she wasn't a generic rebel character because she didn't start the film as a rebel? Lame excuse for a tropey character.
Being new to Star Wars isn't the same as being a non-trope character. As I've said multiple times, Cassian is at least somewhat new for Star Wars but he's still a complete trope. Seriously, the dude is a quietly committed rebellion officer who will do anything for the rebellion including betraying the rebellion to save the rebellion. It's boring as fuck.
The difference between my insulting summary is that it practically covers everything about the characters that I'm summarizing, while your insulting summary misses most of the interesting parts about the character in question. For instance, you've totally failed to capture Ray. Unlike legitimately every character in Rogue One, Ray is a morally ambiguous character with actual depth. He has a tenuous grasp on sanity and his inability to escape from the guilt of his crime drives the entire movie forward.
1. We've been over this about a million times. It's a plot hole that you didn't even notice because your tongue was too far up Edwards' ass, but it's chill for you to keep pretending that the movie doesn't need to support its creative decisions. If the film wanted to patch this plothole, they could have, but they didn't, so I think they missed it and it's further support for the shit writers.
As for the rest of your post, you trying to paint me as overly intellectual with self-serving standards for simply wanting to see a single non-flat character... I don't have much to say aside from the fact that I've liked a lot of "shitty" films and I'm not afraid to admit when I like something despite it being critically flawed.
@mizal
I've tried my best not to respond to you in any of your posts in this thread since you specifically mentioned that you didn't want to be involved, but you're making it really difficult lol.
Ah Mizal's involved so feel free to yell at her. All's fair in love and war, including war of the star variety.
Agree with all of this 100%. I'd probably give it a 4/10 in terms of objective quality, but I mainly went to see it for the art direction and was satisfied on that level, so my personal enjoyment score is probably a point or two higher. But the characters were dull and bland (especially the protagonist and her dad subplot), the plot falls apart under cursory examination, all the emotional moments fell flat, and the fanservice was jarring and gratuitous. Overall it was a milquetoast rehash of the same shit we've seen from every other Star Wars cash-in. I do always like the set design in the SW movies, though.
As already discussed, you're a hipster who hates things to be popular and your only suggestion for a better sci-fi movie was "UH! EVERYTHING'S GENERICALLY SCI-FI BUT THE ANTAGONIST AND IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE ENDING YOU'RE JUST NOT SMART ENOUGH!", so your opinion is invalid.
Yeah, Steve, but there were Tie-Fighters. FAN SERVICE YA FUCKIN NERD
You do realize that most of my favorite works are very popular, right?
Sure, like "CHRISTIAN SYMBOLISM JUST CAUSE GUYS WE'RE ARTSY AND LOOK HE'S LESS NERVOUS THATS CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!".
Dayumm gurl turn down the flames!
Sorry you don't understand good writing. I too disliked that show when I was young and immature, but it's okay, I'm sure someday your tender developing brain will be able to grasp its nuances and complexities.
Oh, the age card. Way to go the way of old, racist Republicans, Ax.
Well, I can play the intelligence card if you'd prefer.
Your intelligence has already been disproven, since you played the age card.
Ah yes, categorically dismissing someone: the sign of maturity! You're making her point. Sometimes age is a factor... I probably would have loved that shit at 17.
I hope you see the hypocrisy of what you just said.
Tell me you know what White Knighting is.
Aren't you a republican?
Not at all. I'm very left wing and anti-gun.
We should be friends. I'm a big gun moderate tho.
I don't remember why, but I'm pretty sure you're a twat. Also, "We should be friends" is the biggest fag thing I've ever heard.
Why are you so angry?
Dunno, same reason you seem to be a raging fag. Nature and nurture, I guess, but I'm not sure on the ratio.
Not that anything being achieved in the original series really matters in the long run, since apparently the empire survives and becomes a more diverse version of the Nazis. And they build a whole death planet instead of a plain death moon. Hell, the Empire is probably doing better at being the empire ever since the good guys "Won" the Star Wars, what with the Imperials still being powerful enough to be imperial and building an even bigger death laser, and the rebellion still being in-the-minority-enough to be called the rebellion gets their token puckish rogue stabbed to death and their chosen one becomes a recluse who looks at people funny. Remember when the Star Wars universe actually found other sources of conflict, father than, y'know, moon lasers? I mean, hell, at least Space Orcs who refused to use technology were something interesting and unexplored...
I guess it is better, simply given its merits as a clone of the first movie, but given what it's introduced, I'd have to say I'd take Midi-Chlorians and Jar-Jar over Mary Sue Eyebulge and Emo Crossguards Mcgee any day. I mean, hell, it at least bothered to expand the world we were dealing with and make it slightly more interesting, even if it did ruin half the things that were originally interesting about this universe. Force Awakens just ruins what was interesting about the universe and gives almost nothing back, except Psychic Lightsabers and the fact that Scottish people apparently exist in Star Wars. I figured they'd have been killed by the Imperialists after the establishment of everyone's Ambiguous Britishness.
Uh, I just can't. Like, have you seen the size comparisons? Jesus Christ, you've seen the Death Star fail twice, and you made a much bigger one with an even bigger weakness that seemingly even the toilet guy knows, you fucking clowns. Come on, Abrams.
I get the “cool factor” for an ultimate doomsday weapon, but all those resources to build just one of them probably could have easily gone into a shitload of star destroyers or hell even those titan class super star destroyers. Just have a bunch of those things carpet bomb a planet with mass drivers or something. Pretty sure it would work just as well.
Realistically, in a war between a massive Empire and a group that hides within it, it should've been the Rebels who wanted a Death Star like ISIS wants a nuke. I mean, you outnumber them by so much. Any planet can as easily be destroyed would be better to be subjugated, which sends pretty much the same message and now you another planet under you.
I disagree. I haven't seen anything in the Star Wars franchise suggesting that ships can't receive large amounts of data and even if that were true, there's no reason why Jyn's father couldn't have just relayed the plans to them in his original message. Surely it would be easier for him to attain a copy of the plans than for him to expect them to go break into a heavily guarded imperial base? He'd have to be actually retarded to think they'd get away with that.
The entire plot of the original was about how they couldn't do such a thing. And not only did Hannibal not have the complete plans as the construction was a massive project that he was only a part of, and he was under constant watch. And clealry not retarded, since they did get away with it, and with the full support of the rebels as I'm sure he'd assume they got, they would've had a far better chance.
How was the entire plot of the originals about the transfer of data? I could have sworn the plot was better than that. . .
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Now you're seriously arguing that the dude who had enough power and influence to build a massive design flaw didn't have access to the plans that include that design flaw. Surely you see the lunacy of that statement? If I build and design a bridge, I have access to the plans to the bridge... because I designed it. If I didn't design it, then I wouldn't be able to put an intricate design flaw in it. This is obvious shit, how are you missing it?
As far as the base... they only managed to succeed because literally everything went right. If the evil commander dude had just shot Jyn instead of giving the oh-so-stupid tropey bad-guy speech (I literally loled in the theatre, presumably while you were eating that shit up), they would have succeeded, and there were about 100 other things that could have gone wrong. If her dad literally thought it was reasonable for them to pull that off, then they sure made it look way harder than it had to be.
The original was getting the plans away,up until they actually got to the rebels for the finale, but that's neither here nor there because that's after all the main shit. If they could've transferred the plans, they'd have just sent them out, Luke would become a stormtrooper and we would've had a shittier movie. But they couldn't transfer the plans.
If you build and design the wall of a building, you don't have all the plans, especially if it's a massive secret so they want as few copies of the plans as possible. It's never said that he's designing the whole thing. He probably just designed parts of it, namely the reactor core.
Yeah, and they also only had the support of one of the Rebel Leaders rather than all of them, and it was a scant few people going in there without a plan. If more planning had went into it, it'd have much higher chances.What should the dad have done, just said fuck it and given up all semblance of hope?
Steve, it is PAINFULLY obvious that you have never actually built anything or worked on anything major. Got any evidence to suggest that this dude wasn't given access to anything more than a single reactor, despite being a major scientist with a high security clearance? Do you know how fucking hard it would be to get anything done if everyone was seriously that limited? If I design the wall of a building, I need to have access to information about the foundation, about the roof, about the things that will be supported by that wall. Do you know how buildings work? Have you ever been in a building before?
Tell me, what experience do you have on top secret projects where the plans are trying to be hidden? Work on the Manhattan Project, perhaps? If you're building a top secret death weapon, you limit information. Do you think the dude making the cafeteria was being given plans about the reactor? We also hear nothing of him having high security clearance, which is pretty fucking unlikely since he can't get messages out and is a literal hostage there.
My point stands. Top secret or not, there's no way to build things in isolation in the way that you seem to think they can be built. It's not possible. Galen Erso was a top scientist so critical that he was worth hunting down and was later described as indispensable. If you want to make comparisons to the Manhatten Project, he's probably like Enrico Fermi... and Enrico Fermi certainly was aware of more than just the nuclear reactor. I'm glad you brought that up.
Enrico Fermi wasn't a prisoner who had betrayed them already, so yeah, he would've got a bit more information than Erso.
Everything I've read and seen suggests that Erso convinced everyone that he was loyal and beaten and that they believed him enough to make him indispensable. I can source that if you'd like. It's supported by the film we both watched, unlike your unsubstantiated theory.
Also, Fermi literally couldn't have done his job without more information because you can't just build everything in isolation!!!!! These are complicated things.
What, my theory that they were secretive about information? Oh, how shockingly unlikely that is. Whether or not they thought he was loyal doesn't change the fact he's betrayed them once, and these plans getting out could lead the saboutage of a trillion dollar creation and the death of millions.
That doesn't mean they'd need to have access to all the plans. You could easily build the death star as a massive reactor with a weapon without knowledge of the security system they're going to use, the guns they're going to put on or any other details that wouldn't effect his work.
We are clearly never going to agree on this point.
I see it as a plot hole borne out of poor writing leading to a shoehorned plot, and you see it as a perfectly reasonable course of action. I believe that you're making excuses for the writers using conjecture not supported by the film, and you believe that your conjecture is common sense but I don't see it that way.
Anyway, my major complaint about the film was the horrible characters and the super boring middle section, but I do think there were also a number of shitty plotholes.
I suppose no, we won't be agreeing on anything here, although I maintain the characters were interesting and all of it was entertaining and fascinating.
And largely, critics have agreed with you, as they did for The Force Awakens (which I thought was even worse).
Specifically, people who are known traitors to the cause.
Star Wars basically is fantasy IN SPACE!
So you're saying its a bad movie because the good guys succeeded? That's literally every Star Wars movie, with the exception of Empire. Lol.
The guy who designed the Fat Man and guy who designed the Little Boy probably didn't have access to the plans after their construction, when they were no longer necessary to build the weapons. Because they were top secret.
Also what kind of pompous ass laughs in the theater? Can you not wait to loudly assert your superiority until the movie is over?
Usually, they have some sort of reason to succeed, I guess would be what he's saying. In previous Star Wars, there was usually some justification, even if the justification was "Our main characters are more badass than the bad guys currently surrounding them". Or, at least that's how scenarios went off the top of my head. The base invasion did seem like it was really luck-based, but I think 3J may be forgetting the cheese we're dealing with here. Star Wars isn't some artful high-brow entertainment, it's a very well-loved B-Movie Fantasy World. Sometimes heroes are just going to be ridiculously lucky against impossible odds. In fact, people might even fall deeply in love despite hating each other for weird reasons, dreams might come true, and, holy shit, there might even be aliens. Of course there was a villain speech, of course the underdogs were saved by the plot.
Hell, at the rate Obi Wan got beat up, I'm kinda surprised he survived Grievous and Jango, but that's just how the cookie crumbles. This isn't Spacegame of Spacethrones.
I don't really get how JJJ laughing in the theater makes him a pompous ass unless he was actively pointing at the unwashed masses and saying how stupid they all were for liking the movie.
For all they knew he could have just been laughing at Darth Vader cutting down motherfuckers and thought he was just some psycho.
What the fuck? That's low effort, Malk. Please explain how you concluded that I thought it was bad because of the good guys winning. Jesus.
As far as the plans... You're going to some serious fucking lengths to defend this film. He designed the flaw... there's no information given suggesting that he wouldn't be able to reproduce the plans if he didn't have access to them. Your comparison to the Manhatten Project doesn't make any sense. If someone put a flaw in a specific part of the bomb, they could either copy the plans or reproduce the relevant parts.
It's like you and Steve think that designing flaws so subtle that no one else can see them doesn't require absolutely insanely intimate understanding of the structure. If he can get away with that, I think he can COPY SOME DAMN PLANS. Jesus. Go line up to tongue Edwards' ass somewhere else.
I don't even think you read what I wrote, and I also don't think you understand how integrated a system like that would be. There's no way this guy could have been in charge of an entire massive part of this construction project without having at least some information to pass on.
Also, nice job explaining how you jumped to the conclusion that you jumped to about the good guys. . .
It was a pretty good movie, and it definitely made the Star Wars universe feel more complex and comprehensive. I'd have said it was merely okay, but I left the theatre with positive feelings on the inside, so I do think it was on the "Pretty good" end of the spectrum. Unlike the prequels and the great Canon Fuckening, which really soured me on newer Star Wars. The Prequels ruined everything by adding an incredibly bullshit genetic thing to their magic system, as well as ruining lightsabers and throwing in thousands of aliens that existed only for cheap gimmicks. And everyone is related to each other and generally the newly established rules just made a once magical and mysterious universe very small and stupid.
The EU fixed this. Then it was replaced by something that not only returned the universe to its fucked state, but seemed to be working harder to fuck this universe than all of the previous things put together. Which is fine. I hope Rogue One is the start of the important beard-growing process that EU was. If it turns out to be a (Small) gold nugget in the middle of a long line of turds, though, I'll be glad to continue not accepting the Disneyverse as canonical Star Wars.
Steve has argued for white supremacy, the right to fuck dogs and why muslims are shit. What other issues matter?
Because there's usually no right way to solve real life problems. However, there's definitely a right way to solve fictional problems. That would be my way.
I got to see it yesterday. I agree that it was better than Episode 7. Especially how everyone lived happily ever after.
I do think it would make for a better ending if it cut on the close up of Vader's face as the rebels flew away. But, I've been told otherwise.
To be honest, it doesn't take a lot to please me. I actually really enjoyed The Force Awakens despite everyone else's criticism. (I'm still not over the death of Han Solo SPOILER!) I personally didn't have high expectations for Rogue One, but when I saw it, I loved it. Especially the fact that all major characters were killed off in the final battle. But, you know, It's not like those people appeared in A New Hope. I thought they did well with CGI on not only the battles and aliens and such, but a young Princess Leia, Grand Moff Tarkin, and Mon Mothma. I also enjoyed the return of those characters in this movie, as well as Admiral Ackbar, and Darth Vader. Other returnees I missed and loved were the Tie Fighters, the Y-Wings, Imperial Stormtroopers, and the Death Star. This movie exceeded my expectations, and I absolutely loved Jyn Erso. My personal rating of all eight Star Wars movies; 1 is best, 8 is worst.
1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. Rogue One
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. Attack of the Clones
8. The Phantom Menace
Honestly, I can't wait for Star Wars Episode VIII, and the Obi Wan movie. Anyways, that's what I thought of the movie and the series in general!
Lol, but of course, I obviously don't have rights or my own opinions, but, you know.
Physician, heal thyself.
> (I'm still not over the death of Han Solo SPOILER!)
You do realize that the spoiler warning is supposed to go before the spoiler, right?
Not anymore. Your rules don't apply to me in the world of grammar XD
Phantom Menace would have been okay if Jar Jar hadn't been in it. Attack of the Clones was the worst one though. Might as well been called Vader's Creek, the whole thing was an emo teenage angst whinge fest.
Yes. The only thing I liked in it was Obi Wan and the battle of Yoda vs Dooku.
Just curious, have you read this? If it turns out to be true I'll forgive Lucas for introducing Jar Jar.
I actually love the Phantom Menace. Reminds me of my childhood. Darth Maul vs Qui Von is awesome.
Please, Force Awakens should be seventh, move everything else up one.
Just saw it. Great stuff and tells a tale of its own. Especially like how almost all the characters died by the end. Beautiful scenes of war and chaos.The entire thing made me have a new appreciation for the original trilogy. It's cool thinking about it when there's a story behind it, especially one this rich. I'd probably be more nitpicky with any continuity errors if I was an expert on the Star Wars universe, but eh, the movie was enjoyable enough.
Darth Vader was badass in the end, though.
They had to SPOILERS**************kill the characters because otherwise, it wouldn't make sense that they didn't appear in the original trilogy************. I don't think it's appropriate to laud a studio for not twisting their universe to make merchandising money. I think that's an example of the very low standard that SW films are held to.
Is it this thread?
http://www.talking-time.net/showthread.php?p=2264875
EDIT: Might be this one:
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3755790&pagenumber=758&perpage=40#post467594167
"The whole point of showing this Vader massacre is to pay respect to those blue-shirted guys with the helmets, since New Hope had presented them as disposable. And it's also complicated by foreknowledge that Vader will eventually reveal himself to be a good guy in Empire."
How is it paying respect? If anything it just makes them look like a bunch of nameless scrub meatshields that they've always been. Nothing complicated about it.
And quite frankly the whole Darth Vader really being a good guy is bullshit. The guy basically did the jedi/sith equivalent of being a life long sinner that recanted on his death bed just in case there is a God because they're afraid of the unknown after they die.
He was a whiny little bitch when he was a teenager, and he died a scared little bitch as an adult.
Worst fucking villain ever.
Of course not. I'm participating in the age old past time of speaking authoritatively about shit I only have the barest passing knowledge of and insisting that my opinions are still correct!
Still, I've seen the scene in question, and honestly it's not really all that impressive. Vader kills like what, 10 of them? Barely a double digit body count.
Unless he's slaughtering people like he's doing in the Force Unleashed prologue mission: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ-EpcTcH3k
Then I'd consider him acting like a force of nature.
How is it any different than when Axiom watches play throughs of video games because she doesn’t want to be bothered playing them? I’ll probably see the movie eventually and think its okay for what it is anyway. Calm your inner fangirl, geez.
Oh yeah it was you that does that. Though I thought I remember Ax saying she watched some playthrough of some game she didn't want to be bothered playing.
Not really sure how it's going to be colored by any perception here though. Half of you are going on about it being the greatest movie ever, while the other half are saying its complete shit. I can know the ending of something and be perfectly fine with still enjoying the movie.
I'm lukewarm on Star Wars anyway, so my own opinion was most likely always going to be:
"Saw it, almost had a facial expression."
You're a shithead.
And that's my opinion of your inferior taste in movies and sub-human mouth breathing, window licking life style.
(Actually I really just wanted to repeatedly call you a shithead, since it looked like fun when Malk did it)
Okay, I'll bite!
1. What was cleared up on your second viewing?
2. What did you see that convinced you that it wasn't a perfect film?
