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Here's a thread for you all to procrastinate in before starting your contest entries.

This article is mainly about RPGs, but a lot of what it says applies to storygames too.  I'm curious, which of the 8 styles of fun you guys think you enjoy the most in storygames, and which ones you think you're the best at evoking in your own storygames.

Quick descriptions for those too lazy to click the link:  "Sensory pleasure" is enjoyment from visual, auditory, and tactile elements.  "Fantasy" is the enjoyment that comes from interacting with and finding a place in a fictional world.  "Narrative" is the enjoyment that comes from experiencing an engaging and narratively well-built story.  "Challenge" is enjoyment that comes from success, defeating enemies, solving puzzles, and the like.  "Fellowship" is the enjoyment that comes from being part of a team (probably not big in storygames, as they're not a social activity).  "Discovery" is the enjoyment that comes from uncovering mysteries, and exploring new parts of the world or lore.  "Expression" is the enjoyment that comes from unique expression, flexing your creative muscles.  "Submission" is the enjoyment that comes from relaxation and rote activities.

Here's the link to the site explaining them in more detail, though you may want to skip around a bit since the article is kind of long.

Anyways:  Which 2-3 of the 8 types of fun do you enjoy the most in storygames?  Which ones are you the best at evoking in your own games?

I'm mostly an Expression-seeker and Discovery-seeker, followed by Narrative and Challenge.  I don't really look for Expression in storygames though (that's what being a writer is for).  In storygames, I usually look primarily for Narrative and Discovery, though I like it when Challenge and Expression can be thrown in there.

My games on the whole are probably best for Discovery-seekers and Challenge-seekers.  Diplomat is more geared towards Narrative, however.

Which types of fun do you guys think the medium of interactive fiction does best?

Narrative enjoyment is definitely the top on the list for me, out of these 8. I mean, it kind of holds the story together, unless you're playing a puzzle game.

Fantasy would be the second one. Exploring a new world somebody created is always fun.

Discovery is the third. If the world created is well-thought-out and complex, there will be a shit ton of potential lore to reveal to the readers. I'm a big fan of the "additional info" bits some games include (Eternal as an example).

I'm never really looking for a "challenge" in a storygame, while I love challenges in RPGs. I'm aiming to relax and immerse myself in the story as I read, not bang my head against an impossible puzzle. I know some love that though.

I'm not looking for sensory pleasure either, seeing as I can't create an image in my head. Even in games, I've never been a graphics whore. I play a shitload of potato-looking games, even in 2022.

Fellowship can hardly apply in this type of media, as you mentioned... but it is a thing if we consider this website as a whole, instead of individual storygames - reading somebody's review, and seeing how THEY experienced the story compared to you can be an enjoyable experience. Expression is best experienced by actually writing the damn story yourself.

Dunno what to say about submission, if I understood what it's about correctly. I don't think turning off your brain as you read the storygame is the best choice to experience it. I go to the gym or listen to music for that kind of thing.

Not having written many games, I can't really determine exactly what I'm the best at evoking... but if I had to guess, it'd be the first three on my list: Narrative, Fantasy, and Discovery.

I'd tend to agree with you on your assessment of your own games, with Narrative, Fantasy, and Discovery being the strongest elements.  Particularly Fantasy in Vincha, with the unusual setting.

It'd be interesting to see someone try to make a "Fellowship" storygame, though I have no idea how that would work.

I think games like "Delve" and possibly "Dungeon Stompage" hit the Submission category.

I think games like "Delve" and possibly "Dungeon Stompage" hit the Submission category.

No way. Those are way too difficult to be relaxing and rote. I would definitely place them in "challenge". 

Oh I skimmed over that bit, but definitely.

I don't think there is any game here that hits the "Submission" experience. (Well, maybe that one by Fluxion, but then again that might not be QUITE what it means...)

That is a terrible label they came up with for that lol.

But realistically it might apply more to some equivalent of an Animal Crossing or Harvest Moon type game, if such a thing existed here.

Even the article says he prefers the alternate term "abnegation" rather than submission.

Yeah, Challenge would definitely be the main value for those two games.  I was thinking of Submission as a secondary or Tertiary value, since the combat sections all follow the same basic formula, even if there are differences between enemies.

Pick 2-3 from the 8 types of fun: food, sex, money, drugs, alcohol, murder, taboo, and war?

In order I guess I'd pick pussy then food then money.

thanks.

Hmm.  Money, food, and war.  Wouldn't drugs and alcohol be in the same umbrella category?

And I suppose murder is pretty taboo lol

people usually put murder as revenge. taboo is more incesty. alcohol hasn't been paired with drugs in terms of speech for 20000 years.

Reverse your order for me. Money is very fun.

Discovery, Narrative and Fantasy for RPG video games.

Narrative, Fantasy and Discovery for storygames.

I'd say it depends on the IF for what it does best.

If it's a pure choice based IF (Not focusing on stats at all), I'd say Narrative should be the number one goal since usually the story is supposed to be driving the entire thing. It's essentially a "novel" that you have some control over.

Now if it's choice based IF with stats (Like Seedship), then things can change a bit, since you also got stuff like how difficult something is. Still, even in those cases, I usually place the narrative near the top because they're usually still attempting to "tell a story."

Something like the Seedship example I mentioned would oddly be an exception since the plot is pretty simple and the main focus is the "challenge" of keeping all your people alive and taking them to a nice planet. So narrative wasn't the focus for me, but it still wasn't the challenge either, it was the discovery of all the different planets and styles of civilization that can occur, events, etc.

If it's a parser based IF, I'd say probably the discovery or challenge comes first depending on how difficult you want it to be. Narrative is usually just the excuse to link all the puzzles you'll be trying to solve together. For me personally, Discovery would still be the most important.

Never heard of Seedship, sounds fun though.  Can that be found on CYS?

Yeah Narrative seems to be the best for choose-your-own-adventure style storygames (fittingly your games are pretty narrative-focused).  CYOAs are the closest to being actual books, so that makes sense.

We had a whole thread on it awhile back.

Here's the link.

https://philome.la/johnayliff/seedship/play/index.html

Here's the thread we had.

https://chooseyourstory.com/forums/the-lounge/message/24015

Just played, fun game!  I got a score of 9504 and an "Atomic Age" "Engaged Democracy" culture.  I like that it doesn't spiral out of control in its length.

It's an app. I didn't find it holding my interest too well, could've used a lot more variety and it got too predictable too fast. Besides some of the way it scored things not making too much sense.

I'd written out a pretty detailed review once, but it was one of the ones Dan Fabulich deleted off the IFDB when he was on his big power trip.

It's fun for about 20 minutes anyway.

I enjoy inspiring submission in other people, but that doesn't seem quite relevant to whatever we're talking about here.

dommy

I feel like Narrative and Fantasy and Discovery all pretty much go hand and hand. In story terms that just seems like plot, setting, and pacing.

Or you might swap out Challenge for Discovery in the pacing slot I suppose.

For me, it is the same as most folks responding so far: Narrative, Discovery, and Fantasy.  

Enjoy:

Challenge, Narrative, Fantasy

 

Evoke:

Sensory pleasure, Challenge, Discovery

Based on this thread, Discovery, Narrative, and Fantasy are the most popular, with Expression, Sensory Pleasure, and Challenge being slightly less well-liked.  Nobody picked Submission and Expression, which makes sense, as those two don't mesh well with storygames.

Interesting, it seems like for a lot of people Fantasy is very high on their list.  I like worldbuilding, but I approach it in a more Expression/Discovery way than a Fantasy way.

Narrative and either Discovery or Submission and Fantasy depending on the day.

Kinky.