WatchNon-threaded

Forums » The Lounge » Read Message

A place to sit back, hang out, and talk about anything you'd like.

Fat Men

one month ago

For the sake of philosophical exercise (and primarily because you jackasses have few moral qualms), it's time to dust the rug and argue for the best solution to the problem :

If a trolley is on a diverging track and it will inevitably run over 1. five relatively skinny people 2. one fat man, who should we kill?

Any outcome for any reason is fine, but explain your rationale.

Fat Men

one month ago

The one fat man, because I am extremely fatphobic.

Fat Men

one month ago

I'd try to convince the fat guy to take a few steps to the left so that when I push him, he can get hit after the 5 skinny people. It's their fault for fucking around on the tracks of a deadly rogue trolley. And it's the fat dude's fault for this being funny.

Fat Men

one month ago

Push the fat man in front of the trolley since he's still not going to stop it from killing the 5 skinny people.

Maximized the carnage for the greater good since now there are six less people consuming finite resources on the planet.

Fat Men

one month ago
I'd add on that one should min-max the trolley by jumping in front at the end for maximum score.

Fat Men

one month ago

Lame Pareto Optimality :

Ideally, you'd derail the train prior to it reaching its destination.  Conductor seats have some (minimal) safety measures to mitigate damage to the conductor, and as such you'd save all parties involved.  Everyone walks away free to live with none of their right to live violated (except maybe the conductor, who has insurance and a union to support his family thereafter).

Minimin Principle :

Suppose that in the normal operating day of a train, incidents like these occur often enough to expect regular lawsuits (albeit, frivolous, as the train company is not responsible for tying people to the tracks / having fat men shoved in the way).  Assuming that the railroad companies and stations have had all their safety measures bypassed, would it be optimal to maximize casualties and seek the worst possible outcome?

Maybe,  if we assume that :

  • every death results in a litigation
  • in the event of a class action, every claimant joins together in the same "class" and expects to divide the reward by the end
  • payments to litigation are written off as an expense and thus contribute to tax benefits

As the operation of the railroad is not made for the expressed purpose of making sausage fillings out of people, our railroad stands to lose money over events they have no control (and yet are still liable) over.  To minimize the amount of compensation per claimant, killing as many people as possible at one time would add more individuals to the overall class, at which point the reward for each claimant could be diminished (if the rate at which the reward is divided is greater than the rate of settlement costs per death).  This reduces the incentive to sue the railroad company, and if we're lucky, charges may be dropped due to the lack of proportional reward to the effort put into the lawsuit.  The capability of the litigating lawyers does not increase in spite of the greater amount of people affected.

You should, in this case, time the derailment to maximize casualties and create a large write-off for the tax year.

Moral Desert:

If the fat man is on the track but you have to switch the track to kill the fat man, abstain from doing so and let natural events run their course.  The five fucks on the track deserved to die for simply being on the tracks.

Likewise, if he's standing at the platform, don't push him; he has done no such thing to warrant getting pushed, and as such does not deserve to die.

Utilitarianism:

There's two interpretations :

1.  The fat man dies because society overall benefits from having more bodies, even if it's five skinny guys who survive.  After all, five skinny guys can experience more pleasure (and therefore utility) than any single individual can.

2. The five skinny people die because their adverse living conditions has caused them to be skinny; they would have never expected to experience much pleasure compared to the one fat man anyway, so you could cut the losses then and there.

Fat Men

one month ago

Libertarianism:

It's almost like moral desert in the sense that you leave people alone to their own devices; after all, if the five individuals chose to die on train tracks or the fat man elects to sacrifice himself to save the other five, there is nothing necessarily wrong. All individuals involved have elected to live and die by their own choosing.

Egalitarianism:

If we're taking a softcore approach to egalitarianism (in that it is a correction to classic libertarianism), we should be approaching this from an equal opportunity point of view; everyone should have an equal opportunity to die and live.  In this case, throw the fat man onto the track / divert it to him, and jump in front of him and defer the responsibility to the next person in control.  Better yet, set the track to half and cross your fingers.

If we're taking a fundamentalist approach to this, in the sense that we're trying to create equality of outcome, it should be best considered to throw the fat man and yourself onto the train tracks in a wild rush.  By randomizing the order in which people will die, everyone will have an equal opportunity to die in an equally gruesome and slow/fast manner.  Life is terrible enough as-is, and the sooner we're out of the equation, the better.

Fat Men

one month ago

fat dude deserves to die for wasting his one life, and his incredible human form, by giving into sloth and indolence 

Fat Men

one month ago
I know everyone thinks I'll to kill fat man, but the truth is, while I'm consulting the forum and reading text walls and pondering increasingly pointless takes on the matter, they've all moved off the tracks on their own because there's a train coming at them.

Fat Men

one month ago
Not even a train either. A trolley is moving significantly slower so they basically have all the time in the world to fuck off if they don't want to die.

Fat Men

one month ago

Perfect solution

Fat Men

one month ago

Fat Men

one month ago
A person of size has annoyed me at work so now I'm changing my answer: I will do everything in my power to ensure that fatty fat fatass bastard doesn't survive his ill timed proximity to my trolley. If he tries to escape maybe I can still get it off the track and get those five other guys to push it after him faster than he can run.

Fat Men

one month ago
The fat man. Because one death is better than five, but also let's face it... Fatty's quality of life is not going to be as good as the skinny peeps. If he did live, he'd just waste his second chance stuffing his face and being gross, possibly even reproducing with another fatty and thus causing the next generation to also be fat and gross.

Fat Men

one month ago

Kill the fat man. Fresh food for the skinny people to eat and when they become fat repeat the process.

Fat Men

one month ago

This is quite the moral quandary...

If there was enough time, the best solution would be to announce various impromptu rallies or similar on social media, and then derail the trolley into whatever crowd had gathered; thereby saving those six for a potential future redo.

Fat Men

one month ago
as usual an online petition was started and went nowhere

Fat Men

one month ago
There's bound to be a snitch between the five dudes who survived thanks to you pushing the fattie to his death. Safe play would be to pull out your phone, record the thing vertically, and post it online for the internet fame.

Fat Men

one month ago

I would most likely try to play the hero and stop the trolley but end up causing a fire which would kill everyone in the area. This would also result in hardly any survivors (including the CYS members who are in the middle of pushing the fat man onto the track/ deciding who to kill) and after I die, I would claim it was all part of a plan to cause as much chaos and destruction as possible.

Fat Men

one month ago
If you get the trolley up to 88mph you can go back in time and do this as many times as you like.

Fat Men

one month ago

I would most likely try to play the hero and stop the trolley but end up causing a fire which would kill everyone in the area. This would also result in hardly any survivors (including the CYS members who are in the middle of pushing the fat man onto the track/ deciding who to kill) and after I die, I would claim it was all part of a plan to cause as much chaos and destruction as possible.

Edit: I see my past self has already beaten me to it. Which part of the timeline did I mess up now?

Fat Men

one month ago
Is the purpose killing more people or less? If less, then depending on how fat the man is he might crash the trolley, so 5 skinny people have to go.
.
.
.
Run over the fatty after, with something sturdier.

Fat Men

one month ago
Jeep owners have been waiting their whole life for this

Fat Men

one month ago

Also, just want to point out that this is a strange combination of two trolley problems.

The first trolley problem is that the trolley is heading towards a group of five people. You can either let it carry on, or you can divert it on to a track that has only one person. (Most people agree that it is morally best to divert the trolley, so that it only kills one person.)

The second trolley problem is that you are standing on a bridge, with a fat man, and below you is a trolley heading towards a group of 5 people. You can either let the trolley kill the five people, or you can push the fat man in front of the trolley, which would stop the trolley from crashing into the other five people because he's just so fucking fat. (Strangely, in this situation, most people agree that it's morally wrong to push the man infront of the trolley, despite it having the same result as the first problem. The reasoning seeming to be that in the first problem, you are indirectly responsible for the one person's death (the trolley kills him) whereas in the second problem, you are directly responsible for the man's death (you personally kill him.) And people seem to think that it's worse to physically push a man to his death than it is to divert a trolley to kill him.)

But, of coure, this is CYS, and has just dissolved into everyone talking about how much we hate fat people. ^_^

Fat Men

one month ago

I don't think the specifics matter much in this case; either way, the responsibility falls to you to decide who lives and who dies.

Fat Men

one month ago

"Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius."