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School Shooting

9 years ago

There's been a school shooting again:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/24/us/washington-school-shooting/index.html

This one is close to where I go to school. I know kids that go there. After school, there was a girl crying because she, the shooter and one of the victims had gone to Taco Time just last week.

It gave me a dizzy feeling. These things are happening more and more.

School Shooting

9 years ago

God. Why does this keep happening?

School Shooting

9 years ago
*Points to guns* *Waits for Gun supporter backlash*

School Shooting

9 years ago

"Gun control advocates are just people who've never witnessed a good, old-fashioned mass stabbing."

Is that good enough for you?

School Shooting

9 years ago
*carries on with American life without being the least bit shocked that someone shot others at a place of education*

School Shooting

9 years ago

The peak trend was during the 2013-2014 school year.  It's happened often by now.

Honestly, I think we're doing something wrong if kids with problems (and I mean problems that would screw over anyone) are being stuck with dumb-fucks who don't know the gravity of their actions, since we raise ourselves to shield children from getting bitten in the ass despite doing bad things.

School Shooting

9 years ago

Swift, are you an idiot? This isn't an insult; I'm genuinely wondering. 

School Shooting

9 years ago

What did Socrates say?

School Shooting

9 years ago

Maybe America should try being logical and ban/further restrict the availability of guns.... 

School Shooting

9 years ago
violates constitution :s silly 200-year-old rules that are used for modern day situations which there is no way anyone could have predicted these circumstances in the 1700's \_(>n<)_/ but who cares! America is America and America is always righteous even when it's wrongeous! :D

School Shooting

9 years ago

Word of the Day : Wrongeous!

Correction : Erroneous.

School Shooting

9 years ago

like the constitution hasn't been changed before - remember slavery? 

School Shooting

9 years ago
Even I am not that old.

School Shooting

9 years ago

Maybe you should do some research and understand the reasons behind why that hasn't happened yet...

 

School Shooting

9 years ago

Insane, that Pandora's Box has already been opened wide, and no matter how hard you try, you'll never be able to shut it.  There are too many guns out there, and the more you take away, the more people you'll have whining "No! I would have been able to stop (List tragic, non-school-shooting situation here that this person was in,) and save both my legs if I was allowed to carry a gun! But the criminals did have a gun, and I didn't, so I ended up crippled and robbed! Just blame the school shootings on video games again and leave my toys alone!"

You'll just have to be glad that people aren't saying "No! I would have been able to stop (situation) and save countless lives if I was allowed to carry my tear gas grenades and Gutgrinder-MK40! But I couldn't, and the criminals had a gatling 12 gauge, so I ended up crippled and robbed! Just blame the school shootings on pansy shotgun and leave my toys alone!"

School Shooting

9 years ago

I know that there hasn't been a link found between this episode and bullying, but...

Just my opinion, but as long as everyone looks the other way when someone is being bullied, especially teachers, there won't be an end to this. I could, and still can, spot bullying from at least a block away. Nothing ever happens to bullies, though, and when the victim snaps they are to blame.

School Shooting

9 years ago

Or, you know, it's a dumbass that no one likes...

School Shooting

9 years ago
Are you saying that a bunch of dead kids, instead of one bully being reprimanded, is a fair trade!?!

Not all kids are cut from the same cloth.

9 years ago

No, I'm saying that sometimes, there are people who just set themselves up to get picked on and hated on not because their behavior is "different" or "alien", but because it is universally self-destructive and plain annoying to everyone else, and despite the fact that everyone tells them to do to stop setting themselves up, they continue to do practice terrible habits, behaviors, and beliefs that continue to not only pester, but hinder everyone else's progress with everything.  Eventually, nobody wants to bother defending others that aren't willing to make steps to improve themselves.

And then those people ask : "Why do people belittle me?  Why am I hated?"

And they're asking all these questions, but they never try to find that answer themselves.  Always so dependent on people to do things for them, these poor individuals sometimes think their answer is to what people tell them online : "They're just jealous.  OMG they're just haters."

Other times, these poor individuals derive their answers from their abusers.  "It's because you're not worth it.  Go kill yourself, faggot.  Bitch, you've done nothing good.  JUST.  LEAVE."

While, in some cases, these answers might be right or wrong, I doubt that the generic "it gets better" will be a cure-all to this case of lost kids with no foundation to base and strengthen themselves on.  Blind hope without some solid evidence of improvement (if those poor people even know what "improvement" for themselves is, I've observed) can only go so far.

And after ALL THE HELP AND EFFORT THOUSANDS OF CARING PEOPLE POOR INTO THESE INDIVIDUALS, sometimes, that isn't enough.

This isn't to say that anyone deserves to have their life progress impeded, but the way we're tackling this problem is (from what I've seen in my highschool and surrounding highschools) way too over generalized to do any good.  Sometimes, we're spending too much time on people not worth helping (yes, I've said it.  There will be people that will be in a sorry state regardless of what you do) that we're missing the people that ARE worth helping.  Sometimes, we're trying to tackle massive problems with a moderate "it applies to almost everyone to the point it doesn't even matter and I don't feel motivated to do SHIT" approach instead of actually cracking down on what can we save vs. what we can't save.  It's sad that we have no solution to stopping apathetic assholes from anonymously taking potshots at a kid who can't get help in the physical world.  It's sad that we haven't addressed, let alone identify as a whole country, that we won't be able to get the job 110% done because we've been training everyone to do the right things the wrong way.

When I mean "it's a dumbass no one likes", I mean it's a waste-of-resources person that probably would contemplate suicide after looking what's on the news every day instead of saying "here is a problem; let's make this go one way or the other and progress, march forward, and move on."  It's someone who, after they've seen all the anti-bullying vids, are literally handed outreaches to rehab programs, are immersed in such WONDERFUL communities that encourages the power of individuality and community, and are run through every kind of antidepressant there is on the market, will not resolve to rebound and take life head-on without a powered exoskeleton built of the bones of their parents, caretakers, and the outstanding models of society.  It's someone who's so incredibly weak, they are guaranteed to do badly in life even with an aide present, after DECADES of help.

If teens are told to ignore people who attack them, then why are we not ignoring people who will do nothing for them, even if their lives depending on those people doing ANYTHING?  We're not looking hard enough at what's making things go wrong, be it on the bully's or the victims side.  Instead, we're placing the bullies as the perpetrators, and on social media, we're encouraging (WorldStarHipHop is just one of many examples) people to beat the shit out of each other and leave it at that.

And no, even if I meant what I actually said, we're still perping the bullies and doing barely anything to help them get out of that state of being a bully.

Not all kids are cut from the same cloth.

9 years ago

Holy, bluish green cervids, that's a long rant.

Not all kids are cut from the same cloth.

9 years ago

Yeah, and it actually made no sense after a while.  :p

Not all kids are cut from the same cloth.

9 years ago

I actually managed to follow it fairly well. I can't say that I agree entirely, but you do have a few points.

School Shooting

9 years ago

For me the shooters are either unstable or bullied on and the school/family shows indifference to such an extent that the kid takes matters into his/her own hands.

School Shooting

9 years ago

So what do you expect the family/school to do?

School Shooting

9 years ago

Cut the bullshit with the "IT GETS BETTER HURR" and try and actually have social workers and specialists see what's going on with what's happening.  It makes more jobs here (but of course, everyone might have reasons why the gov't, supposedly "built by the people", shouldn't be involved in the well-being of its citizens out of the sake of "privacy").

School Shooting

9 years ago

"actually have social workers and specialists see what's going on with what's happening"

So, what, interview the kid getting bullied? Assuming the kid even comes forward, then what? What can a parent or teacher actually do? What can the school do?

School Shooting

9 years ago

Or talk to the bully too?  Identify what's causing them to be them.  Take that as data.  Make plans to the school systems and psychologists for improvement.  If need be, share it with the police if the situation is that bad.

I could care less about victims at this point, because there's always going to be people victimized by someone else.  If bullies are a minimal presence, then victims also become a minimal presence.  People who aren't victims / bullies have more opportunities to learn and grow to know themselves not as an object of pity / hate, but as an entity capable of learning and doing things, if they want to take the time to do so.

School Shooting

9 years ago

That's probably the most expensive idea I've ever heard.

Not to mention you haven't said how to solve anything. All you've said is that we should collect some data then make plans.

School Shooting

9 years ago

Well then, can we try the death laser from the moon base instead?

School Shooting

9 years ago

See, you have no idea how to solve this at all, lol.

School Shooting

9 years ago

Which is why I want something to work with so I can think of a way to solve this?

School Shooting

9 years ago

You're acting like the people who go out and shoot up schools are sane. You can't apply a rational solution to an irrational person's behavior.

School Shooting

9 years ago
I am good friends with a parent that sided with their own kid. When their grade-school age kids were being bullied by a high school kid, the dad climbed on the school bus and threatened the bully and the bus driver for allowing it to happen, then went to the high school and threatened the principal and the superintendent, and finally to the bullies home where he kicked down the door and pinned the bullies father in his chair and gave him the option of either stopping it or else. That's when we found out about it, and practically the entire HS sought to destroy the bully. We'd catch him alone and kick the crap out of him, chase him with our cars, anything that we could think of. He finally dropped out, and became the nobody that everyone else knew him to be.

School Shooting

9 years ago

>That's when we found out about it, and practically the entire HS sought to destroy the bully

When is the part that this story becomes real?

School Shooting

9 years ago

School Shooting

9 years ago

Holy fuck...

Well that's one way to do it. 

School Shooting

9 years ago
In rural America, we take care of our own.

School Shooting

9 years ago

Some people are just born crazy man. A regular person who happens to get bullied isn't going to freak out and snap then start killing their classmates. 

School Shooting

9 years ago

It depends on how severe the bullying is. 

School Shooting

9 years ago

True.

School Shooting

9 years ago

You can't blame the problem entirely on bullying when there are tons of kids out there who get hassled daily and don't shoot up their school. Sure, it's a factor, no doubt about it, but a rational person's first response to that sort of behavior isn't, "I'm going to go out with a bang!"

The people who commit these acts need psychiatric help BEFORE these things happen. That, and they shouldn't have easy access to firearms in the first place.

School Shooting

9 years ago

I think that's a good point.

School Shooting

9 years ago

Isn't that the 8th one this month? Damn 

School Shooting

9 years ago

People do things which gives followers the same idea. Schools are the most common because of the lack of equal or more resistance. That's why this doesn't happen to Police Departments, as far as I know anyway. 

School Shooting

9 years ago

No, it doesn't happen at police departments because there are men with guns inside. At a school, however, everybody is unarmed and are easy targets.

School Shooting

9 years ago

Exactly.

School Shooting

9 years ago
When was the last school shooting in England? The '90s? I don't think being unarmed (Which in turn, makes them easy targets) is the problem.

School Shooting

9 years ago

And how many people in England have guns to go shooting with? 

School Shooting

9 years ago
Exactly.

School Shooting

9 years ago

Except gun control isn't a realistic solution in American society.

School Shooting

9 years ago

This is of course a terrible event, but this is starting to be kind of a trend in the States I believe. Now, you might call me stupid, but don't these events point to larger flaws in the American society, given the fact that these mostly happen in the States. Of course I'm talking about gun control, which even though it may appear unconstitutional (btw, it's not like Britain is going to invade you when you take away the guns of the people) would prevent more troubled people from getting their hands on guns. However, I'm also talking about issues like insufficient support for people who experience extreme emotional stress. Of course, besides that there's also the problem of copycatting other school shootings.

School Shooting

9 years ago
I agree that there should be more gun control, because nobody needs an assault rifle to hunt deer. They are far less accurate than a hunting rifle, and deer don't shoot back like the kangaroo did in Crocodile Dundee. If you have to fill the air with lead to bag yourself a single deer, you shouldn't be hunting in the first place. — Leave it to the professionals.

School Shooting

9 years ago

The problem with gun control in America is the fact that it just won't work in this country. Everybody and their mother has a gun, and even if the government managed to take all of those away, it wouldn't stop the Cartel from bringing guns north through the border. 

In England, not even the regular police have guns. Plus, they're off on their own island, so it's much more difficult for somebody to get their hands on a weapon over there as opposed to the United States.

School Shooting

9 years ago
You don't have to tell me that. I'm a machinist, and I know how easy guns, etc., are to fabricate. But assault weapons are unnecessary.

School Shooting

9 years ago

I understand that a complete outright ban of firearms in the US wouldn't work, because in some circles the liberty to have guns is linked to nationalism. However, tougher gun control measures, like background checks or the ban of assault rifles, would prevent more mentally unstable persons from getting guns. 

Actually, in almost every other country in Europe regular police carry guns, but they hardly ever fire them because in most cases it's considered excessive violence. I can't speak for many other European countries, but the amount of fire-arms related crimes per year in most North-West European countries (Netherlands, Denmark, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, etc.) is between zero and one. The last mass shooting in The Netherlands was five years ago. 

Even in countries that border 'criminal' nations with cartels, like Eastern European countries, gun violence is still much lower than in the US.

School Shooting

9 years ago

I say we arm every man, woman, and child with a gun at all times. I bet people would start acting a lot more polite with each other knowing everybody has a gun on them.

School Shooting

9 years ago
I say we get rid of City Folk, since they'd rather create problems than provide solutions.

School Shooting

9 years ago

So you want something like another agrarian society like Pol Pot's?  Live isolated from each other and chase down and kill whoever crosses your version of your country's ideals?

School Shooting

9 years ago
I prefer the romantic era of America. We should never have left the Wild West. You treat everyone with respect, or else your family would be left to wonder whatever became of you.

School Shooting

9 years ago

Right, so...hanging judges, vigilante mobs, and people who beat each other up all the time over the damndest things if one man's respect means "don't touch me at all" to another man's "can I have a handshake?".

School Shooting

9 years ago
Glad you see it my way.

School Shooting

9 years ago

Personally, I don't see how what you describe is anything worse than what happens in most major cities.  Replace "hanging judges" with overzealous law enforcement officers, vigilante mobs with gangs, and "people who beat each other up all the time over the damnedest things with...well...actually, you probably don't have to replace that one, and you have an accurate representation of most major cities.

For those of you who have never been to Arkansas, we have Pine Bluff, a wonderful place where the literacy rate is 8% and they treat human bodies in the gutter like most people treat road kill.

School Shooting

9 years ago

As fun as it would be to join the baldknobbers, I think I'll pass on that one.

School Shooting

9 years ago

...You're not going to go berserk on your classmates are you? o.o

School Shooting

9 years ago

Nmelssx, I implied that I wanted to join a 1800s vigilante gang that wears funny luchador masks and lynches asswipes, not kill myself and join a long list of whiny bitches who can't cope with their own shitty lives.

School Shooting

9 years ago

You do know we never 'left' the magical Wild West right? We just utterly destroyed it and built homes there instead, just like in the magical New World on the east side of the continent.

BTW: There were still plenty of problems in the Wild West just like those in modern day.

School Shooting

9 years ago

I realize that linking a youtube video is bad form for debating, but I'm lazy to read through it all when I'm supposed to be writing, so...

Youtube

The video is kinda outdated, but it sums up my pro-guns-in-the-US position pretty well.

As for the school-shooting, which is the actual topic, well, it's horrible. I definitely think that parents need to be more responsible over their children, and profiling should be done when someone buys a weapon. 

I don't have any actual evidence or anything, but I think a lot of these shootings are happening because teenagers who are being neglected socially, or are from chaotic homes want to reach some sort of fame: infamy. And with the media highlighting everything that has the word 'gun' attached to it, it's an easy way to get on the papers (as well as going out with a 'bang'.)

School Shooting

9 years ago

The problem with profiling is, there really isn't a 'profile' for a school shooter. There's things that might make you a school shooter, and things that might not. Everyone thinks that they're all just disturbed, lonely kids who play violent video games, but they're not. Every single one of them has been drastically different. Hell, the shooter Puddlebunni was talking about was on the football team. Jocks are supposedly the guys making the school shooters, not being them.

It's just like suicide. People think they have a 'profile' for that, but they don't. They don't always have depression, they don't always do it over their mental or social problems, and they don't always do it due to loss or disaster in their lives. There as SO MANY VARIABLES that come into play that all you could really come up with is some vague probability/percentage as to whether or not you should be doing certain shit. All I can say is that it's too fucking bad that psychiatric checkups aren't as common or mandatory as physicals.

School Shooting

9 years ago

Good point.

This issue is getting more and more out of control. Students are afraid of attending school more and more. So, what do we do about it? What will make the murder rates go down and the school shootings go down? 

School Shooting

9 years ago

There are ways to stop a murder that might happen, but none of them are certain, because none of the murders are certain. Creating more restrictions, getting better law enforcement and enforcing more laws are all ways, but you can't intimidate people that want to die, unless you're willing to break the Geneva Contract or other laws regarding humane enforcement of the law. But even that's not certain, the wide-eyed mongoloid that shot up Sandy Hook reportedly didn't feel pain.

School Shooting

9 years ago

Dude, the kid wouldn't be profiled. Whoever the hell had the gun which he took to kill people with would be profiled before getting one. Example:

"Alice Allison. Female. 45 years of age. Parent of 3 children. Unmarried."

Basic profile, very simple. But even something like that, with barely any information considering what could be found out (histories, etc.), you can already suspect something. You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to see that it's possible that this single mother doesn't have much time with her kids if she's working, and might forget to lock up her pistol (which she needs to protect herself from, say, rapists.) From that, when somebody gets a gun permit, profile them, make sure they update it, and make sure these are responsible adults who watch their children.

Or something like that. Because I HIGHLY suspect that a kid who, after being crowned 'Freshman Homecoming Prince', then shot up his friends, grew up in a 'normal' household. Somewhere there's a bad link. 

The only thing I can see working is if we 1. Educate the masses. Teach them how to defend themselves, reach out to people up who need help but are unwilling to talk to their parents. 2. Have armed guards in schools. Make some use of all the tax money the rich give! Hell, give a teacher the right to have a gun. And of you're going to say that you can't trust some teachers then you better make sure that you get the best freaking teachers you can for the next of the American generation. Only pluses. 3. Stop making every publicized school 'massacre' about guns! With a knife, cleverly tucked into a shoe, one could probably slice more than 5 kids, mattering who the targets are and how quick it is. And this has happened many times all over the world, they just aren't publicized as much.

School Shooting

9 years ago

So what you're saying is that we should ban knives?

School Shooting

9 years ago

We should ban anything that can hurt anyone else and create big metal balls that we all roll around in from birth.

School Shooting

9 years ago

And we should be wrapped in bubble wrap.

School Shooting

9 years ago

Jesus Christ. How the hell are these people, if they even deserve the right to be called people, getting guns? 

I'm not totally against guns, but holy hell, how do we make it harder for people like this to get guns? 

School Shooting

9 years ago
IQ tests. Only people with a certain IQ or higher are allowed to handle, transport, pick up, or sell a gun. But that's too logical - America would never do such a thing.

School Shooting

9 years ago

Well there is always and will always be an unstable person somewhere with access to some dangerous thing.

On occasion, we get one who does something more public than murdering their family, killing a person that is the object of their affections, or killing themselves.

There's no point is making legislation against the rare instances because if we did that then we might as well treat all things with low probabilities as things that need legislation about.

We cannot completely stop unstable people or even criminals from hurting others. To do so even partially requires huge violations in personal privacy and freedom. Unstable people and criminals don't follow laws and don't listen to social moral conventions. We can outlaw as many things as we want, but there is and always will be a market for things outlawed where people can get their hands on it.

 

Sure it might give some comfort and security to some to make laws after such an incident has happened, however it serves no real purpose and will not stop it from happening again and again.

 

School Shooting

9 years ago

"There's no point is making legislation against the rare instances" - Rare?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#2010s

These things aren't as rare as you think.

School Shooting

9 years ago

Just actually noticed this

> After school, there was a girl crying because she, the shooter and one of the victims had gone to Taco Time just last week.

So wtf were his motives? Wow.

School Shooting

9 years ago

According to the news, it might've had something to do with a fight with his cousins or some bullshit.

School Shooting

9 years ago

"Yo cousin?"

"Sup brah"

"U be faggot

"Oh no jew didn't!

*proceeds by shooting an entire school"

Makes no sense...

School Shooting

9 years ago

According to the news, the three/four kids who got shot just happened to be those cousins and their friends.

School Shooting

9 years ago

Well that makes sense...