Forums » The Lounge » Read Thread

So, these are my grades so far,

	ENG 2 - 01 01 - 005 -		97% A
	DIG MEDIA/MM FOUND 2 - 02 02 - 001-TV -		98% A
	BIOLOGY 1 - 03 03 - 007s -		74% C
	WORLD HIST - 04 04 - S2 - 007s -		93% A
	GEOMETRY - 05 05 - 014-Construction -		90% A
	CULINARY ARTS 1 - 06 06 - 007 -		93% A

Ughh.... my bio teacher lost my papers I have to find them today.

So, anyone in school like to share their grades.

Well, that's a grade A example of douchey bragging.

Not what I was trying to do.... 

Edit: That sounded waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay harsher then intended.

EYY

JIMBO'S BACK AT IT AGAIN

BEING A BRAGGING SCUMBAG

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Why! Why me! I was not trying to brag, With the school year ending I just wanted to know grades man.

But, you see, that's the thing, why would you want to compare grades with strangers on the internet anyways? To feel superior to all us Deku Scrubs?

Oh, oh, are we humblebragging about our intelligence?! XD  

Let's see. . . I think got like, a 33 or 34 on the ACT.  Somewhere in the thirties. 

(Of course, that was like, 20 years ago, when it was actually difficult.  Seriously, what is this bs about you can retake only certain parts & they only count if your score goes up?)

I also got a perfect score on the verbal SAT.  Back when they had analogies on the test.  (They were prolly right to take those out.  Too easy.)  

Oh, oh, are we humblebragging about our intelligence?!

I got a 2330 (730/800/800 math/reading/writing) on the SAT and went to MIT. Also, my IQ is like 140.

Click the link I posted below \/

Yeah I get that a lot.

Anyway, I should say for the record that I posted because I find it annoying when people brag about their intelligence. Smart people are not only absorbed with their own smartness but are also hyper-competitive with other smart people, and they tend to tie up all their self-esteem in how brilliant they are. But it really doesn't matter. Grit is a much better predictor of success in life than intelligence, and EQ is way more important than IQ for happiness.

I wish we'd praise our children for trying hard and not being smart. Teaching people that innate ability is what matters is a great way to get them to give up immediately when something isn't easy, and learning how to be dumb and need help is really painful.

(source: my life)

Great insight.

Thanks, I used to work out.

Tell that to the state legislators who passed Common CORE standardization, who will then nod in agreement and continue with implementing a backwards system where you can only work the dumb, hard way to get good grades.  Sure, it's a cookie-cutter system, but the kids who really can use the boost in more rigorous classes don't get the opportunity to.  

If anything, private schools and KIPP (which generally clock in more hours of school time, but have more flexible styles of teaching) are probably going to be the only ones that'll teach what you just said, on top of capitalizing on individual strengths.

Side Note : Isn't EQ testing a little too dependent on the subject's current disposition?  If some kid had a bad stretch of weeks, parameters on empathy could be affected positively (the subject would be more empathetic and would choose the choices that gave concessions to all, inclusive to them) or negatively (the subject has a decrease in empathy and thinks more selfishly if s/he views life as generally "out to get them").

The EQ comment was me being pithy. I think that's probably true but don't have a source for it. What I was actually referring to was this TED talk about the longest-running study done on happiness, which iirc found that the most important predictor for life satisfaction is how good your relationships are:

https://www.ted.com/talks/robert_waldinger_what_makes_a_good_life_lessons_from_the_longest_study_on_happiness?language=en

It sounds obvious when you say it, but people get obsessed with things like fame and money and career progression instead. Pretty dumb when you think about it, right?

And yeah, I agree that the American education system is fucked and a big part of the problem.

Just took an EQ test online. Apparently I have a slightly above average EQ. Hurray! *cries*

EQ is notoriously hard to measure, and I wouldn't hang on the words of the online tests. According to an IQ test I took a while ago under the conditions set to me, I have an IQ of 160 (Einstein and Stephen Hawking level btw).

I'm surprised you're not using your Steam pic for this.

Yeah, those tests are all ridiculously inflated. Don't get your IQ measured for real, though. Not only is it dumb and pointless, but it encourages you to measure your worth as a person by a number that has little to do with success or happiness. The only reason I know mine is because it was part of a child psych examination I had when I was five or six.

I wish we'd praise our children more for sticking pennies into light sockets, and then having the grit and determination to immediately try it again.

The people who brag about intelligence are the same people who brag that they have a better job, or more money. And why not? You tend to get a better job if you did better in school.

People really shouldn't do that. Not only does it make you an ass, but being competitive about things like that is setting yourself up for failure because there's always someone better.

What, you mean you think people shouldn't measure their entire self worth by a series of numbers, and how those numbers compare to the numbers other people have?

Now you're just being silly.

It's not just that but also that you have no real control over it. What's the point of being proud of something you had nothing to do with? Congratulations on having good genes and/or parenting, I guess?

Wait, hold on. This thread is the OP bragging about grades. You can't tell me you have no real control over / nothing to do with your grades.

We got onto the subject of intelligence in general. Grades absolutely have more to do with work ethic than native intelligence, but bragging about them still makes you a douche.

Bragging about being successful after hard work makes you a douche? ... Then what exactly is one allowed to brag about, iyo?

Why should you brag about anything? I mean, I love to brag, but I think it's rude and makes other people feel bad, so I try not to do it.

Anyway, grades aren't just about hard work. They're also about ability (even if that's not as important), upbringing, and socioeconomic circumstances, none of which you have anything to do with.

xD Well, I accurately predicted your answer: "Nothing!" Ignoring the fact that I have known plenty of people who would disagree with you about it being rude--and it's considered polite to at least consider other peoples' convictions--truthfully, there are several 'rude' behaviors which have proven benefits in society. (Hence those behaviors existing.) Besides, celebrating your successes is generally regarded as healthy behavior and sharing the experience with other people is seen as a normal part of celebration. *shrug*

... So? You could also claim luck's involved because if the teacher had been pissy one day or if the machine processing my tests had messed up, I could've gotten a bad grade that way. I'm still mostly going to see it as me doing work. primarily because it does involve me doing work, and I will see it as me succeeding / failing.

Well, upon further consideration, I think it's fine to brag about some things. I don't like people bragging about grades and intelligence and things like that because it's implicitly putting other people down for theirs, but being proud of your accomplishments is fine if you're not comparing yourself to other people. You can brag about writing a novel to a non-writer friend, but bragging that you make more money makes you a douche, especially because that probably comes down more to your life opportunities than your individual qualities.

You can see your grades as your own if you want, but people have much less agency than they think they do, especially children. You are the product of your environment. Sure, your individual efforts are a factor, but they're not the largest factor by any means.

Mm. I disagree, I'd say it's about intent and tone rather than subject matter. If you are bragging specifically to put other people down, yeah, you're kind of a dick. But just because you personally take bragging about academic success as insulting, it's not fair to assume that other people mean to insult you. I could brag about success in writing a novel to a non-writer friend and they could still get offended because ... any number of reasons, really, if it just happens to strike them as offensive. Like "are you trying to say I haven't accomplished anything creative in my life?" "Do you think you're better than me because you can write and I can't/don't?" 

Granted, I don't have friends that petty. X_X If I talked about my grades or stories, or they talked about their own successes, we congratulated each other. I did not feel put down by the fact that my friend was smart and able to offer evidence of the fact, I was happy for them. Maybe we just know each other well enough to realize we're not being dicks. :P Then again, I was able to happily congratulate classmates I barely knew who did better on tests than I did, so hey, maybe I'm just a freak. xD 

"You are the product of your environment." <-- I'm almost tempted to find this insulting, my 'environment' growing up was often hell, but I am a successful and productive human being today. People are capable of rising above and falling below their environment. 

Yes, intent and tone are important, as is your relationship with the other person. My rule of thumb is that if I think being proud of myself is likely to make someone else feel bad, I'll keep it to myself. Otherwise it's fine. I think it's not really "bragging" when you're not implicitly saying you're better than other people, though; that's just being proud of your accomplishments, which I agree is healthy. Posting something in public, like this thread, is also very different from discussing it in private. You have a lot more leeway around someone you're close to.

People can overcome their environment, yes. And if you had a shitty environment and grew up into a productive and successful person, then I wholeheartedly congratulate you, because that's difficult to do. But your environment has a huge impact on the kind of opportunities you have. Maybe you've overcome a disadvantaged situation, but a lot of people can't, and it's not their fault they started with less in life than others.

The problem with saying "grades are a result of your hard work, and my life was shitty and I turned out okay, so why can't everyone do the same" is that it ignores the very real impact that things outside of your control have on you. It's like the classic problem with the American Dream. "Just pull yourself up by your bootstraps," says the man who won the lottery.

Ehh... the OP invited everyone else to brag about the same subject, phrasing it as a question, thus emphasizing it for what it is: an optional read and an invitation, not a demand. Much like friends can decide not to discuss grades if they do not handle such bragging well, everyone here can choose not to talk with Jimmy about his and their own grades. Since other people have shared, some folks apparently welcome the opportunity. As in real life, if you see two people chatting about a subject you don't like, you can just walk away and lose nothing.

Never said it was their fault that they started at a disadvantage. Wasn't my fault either. However, if you want to rise above it, you have to work your ass off and--honestly, I tend to pretend it does all rely on my own efforts so I don't end up making excuses.

Sure, to say luck has nothing to do with just how far you can go is foolish, but to use bad luck or shitty parents (or whatever) as an excuse to accept your situation and make no effort to improve it is equally stupid. I prefer to focus on what I can change, rather than wasting time by lamenting about everything else.

I like to draw a distinction between fault and responsibility. If your life is bad, it may not be your fault, but it is definitely your responsibility. Because if you don't fix it, who will? But when it's not your fault, maybe you deserve more empathy and/or help from other people.

I know you didn't say it's their fault they started at a disadvantage, but saying "my life sucked and I turned out fine" is kind of implicitly adding "so why can't everyone else." I know you didn't mean it like that, but I think it's important to recognize that some people need help.

As for this thread, I found it to be in poor taste, but you'll notice I didn't reply to the OP because I didn't care that much. I replied to Seth's post because it annoys me much more when people brag about test scores than grades. Grades definitely have a large component of hard work, so that doesn't bother me much. But bragging about being smart is not only douchey, since it has very little to do with you, but also promotes the widespread toxic idea that your value as a person is determined by your innate intelligence.

Not disagreeing there.

If you know I didn't mean it like that, then I don't see the point of bringing it up. I disagree that it just implicitly tacks that ridiculous conclusion on there, if for literally no other reason than that it's just logical to acknowledge that at least some situations are not fixable. 

Eh? ... But why did you keep reading through the thread if you didn't have any interest in replying to the OP?

Toxic? Toxic how, exactly? (I'm more inclined to say value is measured by capability, and intellect is not the only factor.)

I brought it up because I think the viewpoint that poor or disadvantaged people are somehow at fault is widespread, which is unfortunate. It wasn't really aimed at you particularly, although I see how I was unclear about that.

I read a couple comments in the thread because I was already here and I think Jimmy's behavior is funny?? You'll notice I haven't posted anywhere outside of the subthread I started, though.

I explained above why putting focus on intelligence in particular is toxic (one, because you can't control it, and two, because it teaches you to give up when you can't do something), but measuring someone's value by their capability is also toxic. Their capability for what? Economic contribution? If you ask me, the only worthwhile measure of the quality of your life is how happy you are and how happy you make others.

We're making almost the exact same point?  People should define themselves by what they want, and be proud of whatever aspect of themselves they want to be. 

But you're singling out intellectuals as not allowed to have that. 

It isn't that I think intellectuals shouldn't be happy about being smart. I mean, yeah, of course you should be happy about something good. The problem is that when you specifically teach people to value their innate ability over their effort, as we tend to do, you wind up with smart people who give up without trying when things get hard and find failure crushing and measure their worth against other people by their test scores and so on. "I'm smart, therefore I'm good" is the other side of "I'm not as smart as someone else, therefore I'm bad."

See my point in the other thread. 

Also, side note: praising effort for its own sake is also self-defeating.  you wind up with people who expect to be rewarded for trying, regardless of outcome.  Which might be great for self-esteem, but doesn't really work in life.

You wind up with people who find crushing failure because they really weren't born with the ability to be an artist, but got told that all that matters is how hard they work at it.

That's a good point, and I agree that can also be a problem. I linked an article that referred to some research you might find interesting in the other thread.

I’m guessing you encountered a lot of people at MIT who were rather chuffed by their own relative high intelligence?

The only time I really saw the "I am so smart hahahahaha!" was in elementary school a few times and I found that people who usually did that got pummeled by the people who said "I am so strong hahahahahaha!"

My experience has been that most smart people are enamored with their own intelligence, but they learn not to brag about it because it's obnoxious. MIT's actually not as bad as you'd think, though. Yes, there are a few really really smart people who are like that, but your ability to maintain a superiority complex is dependent on your environment. Basically every single person there was the valedictorian of their high school and had the highest SAT score or whatever, so you go from "ha ha I'm so much better than these plebs" to "oh my god I'm so dumb compared to everyone else" pretty quickly. I came from a so-so public high school and mostly made B's in my technical classes once I was there, so I had to learn to be happy with mediocrity. 

MIT as an institution actually actively fights against competitiveness in the student body, though. They don't have class ranks or an honors program.

hahaha . . . either I need to get better at sarcasm, or you do.    If you went to MIT, it's probably you. (I'm joking.)

I was joking before, too.  It's funny to me, because every member of this site is pretty well smart, right?  So why not let everyone show off?

You're absolutely correct that test scores mean nothing in real life.  (I'm a former barista, ffs.)  

I'm replying to this, because your whole preachy diatribe is coming across as you bashing intellectuals.  

Some people, being smart is all they have.  Why can't they be allowed to be proud of that?  

Also, you're wrong that being smart has nothing to do with you.  Take athletes: a ton of what makes them is just being lucky enough to be born with that body.  But we fall over backwards to praise the effort they put into making the best of what they've got.  So do most smart people. 

I know you were being sarcastic. I still didn't like it. It's not a big deal, though.

I'm not bashing intellectuals, I'm bashing a culture that prizes innate ability over hard work.

You're part of the problem.  Praising "effort" is a cheap trick to put blame back on the poor, disadvantaged people you claim to champion.

If we pretend innate talent and status are irrelevant, now it really is the poor person's fault that they're not rich and successful.  Because if they just tried hard enough, worked hard enough, they'd be just as well-off as the kid whose parents were doctors and paid for his law school degree.

People with lots of innate advantages love the idea of effort being paramount, because it lets them believe that their success is due entirely to their own efforts. 

That's not what I'm saying at all. Yes, your success in life mostly comes down to luck, but you will make the most of whatever circumstances you find yourself in if you value your efforts over your abilities.

Praising children for effort vs. intelligence has been well researched, and the evidence suggests that praising them for effort leads to much better results. Here's a random article I found about it:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-secret-to-raising-smart-kids1/

My point is specifically that we should teach people to value their own effort over their own innate ability, not that we should chalk other people's success or failure up to the effort they put in. Of course that would be terrible.

(You seem annoyed, so I want to say I'm sorry for calling you douchey. I was a little annoyed by your post, but it's not a big deal.)

Walking to work, don't have time to link.  Rebuttal book: punished by reward.  Studies concluding that children praised for effort begin to assume praise is unwarranted. (Kids smart enough to know when one thing is qualitatively better than another) & in fact, began to treat "recognition of effort" as criticism. 

I think it depends on how you deliver the praise. Like, assume your child comes home with straight A's on his report card. I'm saying it's better to say "Good for you, little Jimmy, you must have worked hard" than "Good for you, little Jimmy, you're so smart." If your child comes home with C's, don't say "oh well, at least you tried, good effort." You should only praise actual accomplishments, yeah. It's just a matter of how you deliver it.

The book sounds interesting. I'll check it out sometime.

To be fair, Jimmy was already a douche before he started bragging about his grades.

...am I the only one who doesn't find Jimmy a douche/annoying/etc?

._.

Eh, he's a cool dude most of the time.

Well yeah, this too.

How often do grades in high school have anything to do with hard work, though? There were subjects I liked and was naturally good at, and for those I never studied, ever, and got fantastic grades. Other kids meanwhile might bust their ass and barely pass. Good for those kids, they got some kind of work ethic early on and I'm still unbelievably lazy to this very day. (Myself, math was my shittiest subject and I worked insanely hard and made myself miserable just to (eventually) pass high school algebra. For someone all that comes easy to, what do they really have to brag about?)

Neither of my jobs today have absolutely anything to do with being good at being good at taking tests or memorizing trivia about the Revolutionary War or writing essays about Of Mice and Men, it turns out. So I mean, someone with good grades can be proud of themselves if they actually worked for them, but it's not something to gloat about, and a mistake to think it will matter much once you're out of school and in the real world. Hell, I know people who never even graduated who are doing better for themselves in most aspects you can measure than the kids who got all As.

I just wanted to add onto this. Why should someone get praised less compared to someone else, just because they were born with better opportunities? They still worked to get where they are now, and they deserve congratulations. Like you said, no one has control of what circumstances they get born into. It just depends on what they do with those opportunities. If they still put effort into what they do, yes it might be less difficult for them, but then again, people with better circumstances do tend to achieve more than those who don't. They still deserve congratulations.

It's my opinion that people deserve praise for how they perform relative to their environment and innate advantages/disadvantages. So someone who's born with good opportunities or advantages deserves praise if they put in effort, of course. But as an example, I think someone of average intelligence who works really hard deserves more praise than a genius who coasts along on ability even if they make the same grades.

Hey nerds, gimme your lunch money!

How many lunches could a gram buy in Detroit?

Asking for people's grades is fine...but I'd yank the real-world names outta there--gotta practice safe internetting, you know? :)

That is why I took emails out and removed links.

I think I might be terrible at calculus.

And English to boot.

Wait, why do you have a C in PE?

That's a B isn't it?

Well, I had neither, really, but that would have been considered a C+.

Isn't that an F?

No?

People who don't bother to try, I guess? Only way you'd end up with anything less than 100 in my school was if you either skipped class or refused to change clothes or something.

So... polar opposites?

Who would have thought. I suppose in the Earth's core they must have a nice compromise.

Religion? What the hell do you do in religion?

Well, that's amazing. If you just say, "it's bullshit, praise Allah" do you pass?

Eh, I see this attitude a lot and it's kind of silly and unfair. Anything written that long ago with such an impact on a culture is interesting in a lot of ways, even just from a historical perspective, and reading about ancient cultures is always cool. You miss out on a lot when you just go lol and hand wave it away. If stuff the Greeks and Romans believed or wrote from those time periods are still worth studying, along with that far more recent English guy that wrote the trashy plays, then so is the Bible.       

I see what you mean. But I don't believe it should be it's own subject. I think it's best mixed in a Socials/ English class. It's like in history, you don't learn about the same war for the whole year.

I'd gladly miss out on the entire Pantheon making the same mistakes day-in, day-out any day.  Especially if its leader uses mortals as sex toys until his jealous wife zaps the unfortunate "her", even if the secret lover in question had no idea it was him.

Or turns her into a poor cow.

I agree completely. It's very interesting. I've actually made a game about drawing parallels between pantheons.

We don't use the alphabet for grading in NZ. We use, not achieved, achieved, merit, and excellence.

Hm. Welcome to 'Murica.

Our grading system is better though. :P

MMM OKAY (~_~')

General Maths: 0%
English: 0%
English Extension 1: 0%
English Extension 2: 0%
Modern History: 0%
History Extension: 0%
Economics: 0%

School: 0%

Life: 0%

Kill me please.

http://youtu.be/Qud4fT_B3VI

I did better than average in school. Probably could have done better if I applied myself.

Found that I did much better in college (especially grad school), but then when you have to pay for everything you tend to focus a bit more.

Finals haven't come out, so I'll just state my current grades:

A's and B's, with a C- In Chem, and an F in Spanish. Both of those classes I absolutely hate the teachers in (One constantly gives work, the other doesn't take make-up work) and I'm probably screwed. Go me.

*Potentially changing in the near future.

Nice grades.

I would share my grades if anyone would actually give two shits, which is unlikely. Considering I'm a complete stranger, I could just make up all my grades and no one would know or care.

Hell, I might not even be in school anymore. Anonymity is bliss.

2050 on the SAT (of 2400 on the second scale before they flopped back to 1600)

Top 2% on PSAT.

Ineligible for decent scholarships if you can't break 2100 or can't be in the top 1%...so yeah, land of opportunity is still incoming, whenever second-best ever becomes a choice. Not worth bragging if my options went only to...CalState system?

I forgot to note : this is years' old info.  I'm ineligible anyway :P

I failed in Science so I have to do a few weeks of summer school. I think I got like a 46%.