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So I'm not sure if I mentioned this here before, but I have Aphantasia. Aphantasia is the inability to visualize stuff in your mind.

It's a scale, not an "on/off" switch. I'm somewhere between 4 and 5 myself. I can "visualize" stuff as if it was drawn on a chalkboard, just outlines of it with no color or features or anything... and then it fades away after a while. Very close to 5 either way.

Why mention this here? Because it has an obvious impact on reading. People with Aphantasia will probably skip over paragraphs which describe the scene because, to them, they are literally pointless. If the author writes in such a way that they describe everything in excruciating detail, that can be a plus for some, but for me it's an obvious detriment. My favorite way of describing is how Endmaster does it - only what is necessary for the scene. If he wants to describe a run-down old house he would say that the roof is fucked, there's no door, and maybe there's a drunk hobo lounging in the backyard. He wouldn't describe the exact way the roof-boards are rotted or whatever.

So, do you have Aphantasia, and to which extent? And what manner of "descriptions" do you prefer?

Oh, dead gods, yes!

For me, it's like if I had a black blindfold that blinds me. I can't see an object I imagine in my head (Think of #5), but I can still imagine what it could look like, to an extent (think #2 for what I can "imagine" it as). I can't see anything at all, mind you, I just have an overactive imagination and the ability to know what it is, as if I had seen the object, but it was then put behind a black screen. I could ramble on forever about it and how I can't even begin to fathom how others are able to just see things in their head, as if it were in front of them, but then this would turn into a text wall, lol.

Oh, almost forgot to mention: I don't have a preference as to the type of description. If there is little to go off of, then I get to either ignore it or fill in the details with my imagination. If they describe every detail, then I have a nice description to know exactly how the author imagined it, and I can still ignore it if I want to.

Expanding on this because why not:

Whenever I do imagine things, since I can't actually see them or envision them in my mind, everything is just blobs in my imagination, constantly shifting in minute ways. They are different-shaped blobs, and sometimes have color, but they are still blobs.

That's another thing: color. Sometimes an object has no color. Not white, or black, or any other color, but no color whatsoever. It's like how when you sleep, if you don't dream, you remember nothing. And specifically nothing; you know exactly what nothing is, but you can't describe it in any meaningful way.

Oh, and dreams are different for me! Sometimes they are like my imagination (See above for a description of it), but sometimes they are hyper-realistic. I've even had times where I've mistaken a dream for reality, and started talking about it with someone, only for them to tell me it didn't happen, and me realizing that, oh crap, that was a dream​​​​​​. On top of that, I have lucid dreamed before, and I am able to see things perfectly, like how I imagine not having Aphantasia to be.

So TLDR: I have #5, but can imagine things quite well, and dreams can be #1 or #2

And it's already a text wall, lol. Oh whelp, I tried.

I'm getting a strong sense of deja vu. 

I figured I may have at one point, but I do have the memory of a goldfish.

Oh yeah, I remember going through old threads and finding this once. It was fun to read all the replies to it, lol

You also have many other mental and physical problems.

Daddy issues, BPD, and STDs are thankfully not on the list, which is more than you can say.

Nah, you just have the masturbation addiction, sex addiction, and the chronic pains of being a gooner faggot that gets hit by cars because he lacks so much presence that even small minivans can't perceive him.

Which is more than I can say. You're right.

     Interesting, I didn't know this. I can visualize with full color, but everything's sort of blurred and out of focus but I can still have a picture perfect understanding of the surroundings. Not sure if that counts.

I've looked into this myself a while back as well because it does affect my art! I think I'm around stage 4-5 as well, I cannot "see" anything inside my mind, but I know what I'm trying to imagine if that makes sense. For example, if I'm asked to imagine an apple I can recall a memory of an apple but not visualize it. Though, I can mentally map out the outline of a 2d apple, it's very similar to tracing your finger in the shape of an apple in a really dark room. The image doesn't hold shape at all, but you know what it's supposed to look like.

This is most likely why I find it near impossible to draw without a reference.

I wonder if that actually makes you better at still life stuff. You don't' have your pesky brain getting in the way of what you actually see.

I never thought of it that way! Though, I've always found still life easier because it's just observing a subject that stays still and consistent! 

I didn't even know there were humans that didn't see colors and at least vague shapes in their minds. Do you dream in black and white too? Got to say this is a shock to me. I'm probably a 2 here, with on some rare exceptions (takes effort) I can get close to 1. I definitely can imaging images with color and texture, but often it is symbolic. I can imagine for small, focused objects (or rather, small sections of mental attention) with a great deal of detail. But the surrounding image in my head is blurry and just a vague sense. Not to mention, when focusing on an image in my head with detail, it takes effort for it not to scatter into another thought or image.

Apparently that's the most common way it works.

I was also surprised to find out less recently that some people never hear an internal monologue or their own voice in their head.


However, this actually is useful for writing. I'm currently investigating overwriting, and letting the reader imagine rather than trying to control the reader's imagination. Taking into account aphantasia only makes me see more clearly (pun intended) the importance of cutting out unnecessary details. Get the vibe right, but do it without redundancy, so the reader can create their own image if that's what they do, and so that the reader doesn't get board if they cannot or do not create mental images.

     I have a very strange and complicated inner monologue with tons of layers. Not sure how normal it is.

I don't have a complex monologue, or any monologue for that matter (I'm assuming that it would be like having a narrator in your head), but I can think in my head and make a wide variety of voices within it, lol.

     Maybe we're understanding what a inner monologue is differently? There's my main stream of thought then there's tons and tons of subconscious things going on. These are sort of 'weak' in a way, and usually die and get forgotten but if I pay more attention to them it sort of enters my mainstream and gains strength. That's the best way I can explain it, I hope that's not too confusing. Little shadows of thoughts and ideas that are always there.

Possibly. I usually don't have a stream of thought, though, just whatever I happen to be actively thinking about. However, there are times when my mind can essentially run away from me and go off on its own tangents that I can't really control, lol. Sometimes they are interesting to watch as they unfold, but often it happens at a really inconvenient time.

I'm not sure the actual statistics, but last time it came up here it seemed like mostly guys were struggling with this. So I wonder if it's related to the way so many men can't ever find things in grocery stores or read labels or find information clearly presented on a screen that they're looking directly at. Just might be some kind of completely different wiring for registering information.

I have no idea how people with full aphantasia even dream, though I guess it could be similar to how people blind from birth do it.

And this has now got me wondering if all those guys out there that are colorblind can dream in those colors.

Anyway, the idea of aphantasia still continues to be depressing, I've seen scenes and locations in books I can still picture more vividly than actual people and places from my childhood.

I have a colorblind friend, I could ask him.

My dreams are incredibly vivid despite the Aphantasia, so the two are unrelated.

Same here; just look at my earlier text wall, lol.

Did you have this before you were run over by a car and put in a wheelchair?

Yes.

Of note is that Aphantasia can develop from a head injury. So it might happen to you, too.

Was at least the perpetrator caught? HTF do people hit pedestrians? Jesus it's inexcusable. Sorry to use your trauma to rant, but Will already brought it up. Someone got killed like four blocks away from me when I was at McDonalds early in the morning, just walking, last year. And like 5 months before that someone was hit and lived. And like three weeks ago a cat was run over. All in the same area.

How in the absolute fuck do people behind the wheel not look out for pedestrians crossing the street or walking on the sidewalk? I can understand it happening to a jaywalker, in that you're not expecting someone walking in the middle of the street. But when people are where they are supposed to be, or where there are frequent pedestrian crosses (like a school, airport, church, etc.), it takes a special kind of stupid to hit them.

He lives in Serbia, he's just lucky folks didn't rob him while he was rag dolled in the streets.

I think he said the woman just drove off and nothing was followed up on, but he can probably tell the story better.

And this is how innocent little Cel came to hate women.

Yeah the comic fresh drew (on my profile, in the first link) is uh... Close enough of a description.

Ironically enough it was in a school zone. Limit is 30 km/h there. No idea how fast she was driving.

Interestingly, I was just having this discussion with a friend of mine earlier today. She would rank herself as a 5 on this scale, but is one of the most talented artists I know personally. I would rank myself as a 2 usually, but with a little focus and concentration can reach a 1 fairly easily. I think this may be why one of the common critisms of my writing is that I can be overly detailed.

Holy essay. idk but i hope you manage to think of some things :P

It literally isn't that long.

~2.5

I knew there were people who think in 4 and 5, but I didnt even know 1 was a thing

 I think and imagine in 1. I can see that apple, rotate it in my head, make it expand and contract in size, rot away and rejuvenate again, and hear what it would sound like if I bit the leaf off and started chewing it. The only thing I can't imagine is how much reading would suck if it didn't work like that, even in things with fairly sparse descriptions.

2 isn't that bad. I mean if you can imagine it in decent detail up close, but sometimes it distorts, you lose focus, or the background is blurry, that's about how most people dream, and dreams are fun. Video games are fun too, and they're mostly a 2 in terms of how they represent the world. I think 2 and 1 are plenty for vivid descriptions.

Seeing in black and white in your head though, no vivid imagery at all, how do you even imagine a beautiful sunset? Maybe they focus on other senses, like feeling sunlight through closed eyes, the warmth on your skin, the sound of seagulls, the sound of the surf coming in and out? Unless all that's connected to the same thing, and they don't even get that. But if so, how do they hear dialogue when they read?

Doesn't sound fun. But I guess, as we've seen with an artist who imagines nothing visual, there are tradeoffs. People like that really see the world, without their brain distorting it, which may contribute to their artistic talent (still life drawings, paintings, etc).

I am with Sent here. Typically prefer imagination to the real thing. I have quite strong synaestesia as well.

how do you even imagine a beautiful sunset?

You don't. You're aware that the author is talking about a sunset and you hope it's relevant to the plot rather than being pointless description.

But if so, how do they hear dialogue when they read?

Aphantasia and not having internal monologue are two wildly different things, my guy.

He's not deaf, just crippled

Yes, I figured as much, but you never know with the human brain. Things are connected in the weirdest ways.