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As an American, I have been questioning a lot of things that this country is supposed to be based on. Things like freedom, liberty, and justice for all.

While I don't mean to mock or insult the country in any way, it comes across to me as a nation of hypocrites. In the days of the American colonies, they rebelled against the British tyrants for oppressing them, taxing with no reason, etc. We all know the rest. The Brits were basically a bunch of evil oppressors. Blah. Blah. Blah.

But after we gain independence, don't we end up committing the same injustices that we swore to fight against when we were expanding? We treated the Natives no better than the British treated us. Not only that, but we proudly declared ourselves a nation of freedom while we owned slaves (though I am not against slavery). It just doesn't make sense to me.

We preach about how every person is equal. Equal rights, opportunities, and much more. Yet many people in this country, whether of a certain gender, skin tone, religion, or ethnical background, had to fight to gain these rights that they are supposedly born with. Even to this day, people are still trying to fight for equal rights (eg. L.G.B.T. community).

When this country makes the kids stand and swear, I mean, pledge their allegiance to it, we call that patriotism. When another country does it, we call that brainwashing and indoctrination. When another country/group kill our people, we call that terrorism, but when we do it, it's defending freedom.

Then there is that we are all created equal. In my opinion, we are not created equal. People have different levels of intellect, different physical attributes, different levels of wealth (that you can be born into). Think about it, would walk up to someone like Bill Gates and say that you are equal to him? I think not. The best we can do to create some level of equality is make laws and rules that can even out the playing field. However, even those laws and rules are broken on a daily basis.

So what do you think?

Take a U.S. history class from a Historian - the answer to all your questions lies there because they know the truth and explain it very well.

...What?

I think that was tongue-in-cheek.

Barring the possibility that you are trying to get us to incriminate ourselves, I have a lot of things to say. First off, I don't agree with your "evening out the playing field" thing. They tried that too, you know, eliminating private ownership, destroying the Bourgeoisie. In Russia, that lead to years of poverty, eras of oppression, and thousands of dead foxes. Okay, so that last part was because of the fall of the U.S.S.R. Still, evening the playing field doesn't work.

I never said that evening the playing field actually works. :P

Wait...I thought you were British!

Me? British?

 We treated the Natives no better than the British treated us. Not only that, but we proudly declared ourselves a nation of freedom while we owned slaves (though I am not against slavery). It just doesn't make sense to me.

In that context, in a world where the white man is the "human" and everyone else is a "savage beast", it was normal to think the law applied to "men" as in "I have a caucasian penis" kind of people.  They took the law literally in the beginning.

We preach about how every person is equal. Equal rights, opportunities, and much more. Yet many people in this country, whether of a certain gender, skin tone, religion, or ethnical background, had to fight to gain these rights that they are supposedly born with. Even to this day, people are still trying to fight for equal rights (eg. L.G.B.T. community)

A lot of conservatives are deathly afraid of the future.  That's just how they do.

Then there is that we are all created equal. In my opinion, we are not created equal. People have different levels of intellect, different physical attributes, different levels of wealth (that you can be born into). Think about it, would walk up to someone like Bill Gates and say that you are equal to him? I think not. The best we can do to create some level of equality is make laws and rules that can even out the playing field. However, even those laws and rules are broken on a daily basis.

This definition has been extended to having "equal opportunities", because a poor man can escape his current income class after X amount of work, rather than be unable to move class to class because of a locked-in system.  Also, this was created by a bunch of white dudes who only thought all "men" were (again) white, land-owning men with a 5-inch smidge of flesh.  To take the Constitution in this day and age and write off its face value as law would be like demanding we should all use muskets from the 1700s.  We've changed a lot since then.

That being said, while we COULD be better, we're still much better off than countries that don't have these kinds of rights in the first place.  We're nowhere near the best, but we're nowhere near the worst (except for an astounding 14-16 trillion $ debt to China, who may or may not be willing to buy the entirety of the USA when we finally have ran out of ways to pay).  We may not have total freedom in economics or politics, but I'm pretty satisfied with what we have now, save for a few laws that will never end being a hub for controversy.

But hey, if you think there's something wrong with today's laws (or rather, a boatload of things), there's always a thing called a ballot...and a political debate...and a political party...and...politics.

Welcome to the world Danaos.

Speaking of the natives, does anybody else find the Crazy Horse monument to be hilariously ironic?

Who're you going to respect more : some indignant man who tried to do the impossible and got killed for it, or some living people who have owned that specific plot for generations?

Actually, I was talking about how the majority of Native American People's hold animistic views and believe that all objects in nature are living things, flowing with energy and deserving of respect, and how a bunch of white people are carving the image of one of these Natives into a fucking mountain. But, what you said counts too.

I'd rather see the mountain than something else that's manmade.

That's...what I'm saying.

Politics! Bah!

Talking gets us nowhere anymore. Judging by how we send our military everywhere to solve our problems, the only language that will be spoken comes from the barrel of a gun.

Sometimes I wish I were born in a much simpler time. -_-

Hmm... Just thought some shitty poetry would liven this all up.

You should have waited a few years to be born.  With the failing education system we have here, simpler times isn't that far in the future.

It's because the beliefs that America was founded on (Classical Republicanism) wasn't what we see it as day. They felt that the only people who deserved to pursue the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness were those with the ability to do so. They believed that politics should be kept in the hands of the wealthy (typically because of slaveholding since America was an agricultural nation up until the mid eighteen hundreds) because they actually had the time to work towards the government. Which basically meant that those in poverty were fucked when it comes to political representation. 

But yeah, American History as it's taught in most high schools is mostly propoganda.

^

Now, who wants to go to Canada?

Great. More chest-pumping, testosterone-fueled,  'Murica bullshit. 

Maybe the less populated parts.

That's the only part that matters.

I know, right?

They're pretty beautiful, that's for sure.

The Canadian Rockies especially.  But even the muskeg has its own level of attraction.

I agree. But I don't think we should base ourselves on a document made 200+ years ago by men who could not have possibly predicted how the country would turn out in the future.

My current history teacher is w walking propaganda machine. All he has do is read out of the book, then he talks about how great America is (no matter how stupid), then he talks about Jesus for a god three minutes. It is nothing but annoying. Some kid even told him that I support dictatorship and anarchy because he wanted to see the Chief have a debate with me. We were both disappointed. The Chief's main argument was, "Democracy is great because America."

He once said that when America decided to do Democracy, it was something that "the world had never seen before". My reply, "True...except you know, the Greeks, the Romans...they NEVER had democracy of any kind."

Or books made nearly 2000 years ago based on people with no higher education...

My history teacher is also like that, but with the added benifet of her being stupid.

Or books written by a bunch of guys who couldn't even breed fucking cattle, but thought they were chosen by God for some greater purpose.

Or books written by some guys whose answers for everything they couldn't explain were stories that usually started with someone angering the gods and/or Zeus sticking his dick in something.

Or any teen dystopia novel.

To be fair, Maze Runner was really good.

Actually, I think all human literature could be considered bullshit to some extent.

I find it funny because he will talk about the Bible at the most random times. We were going over different types of government and he just says, "Ya know, I believe Jesus Christ died for my sins. But everyone has sinned at one point, right?"

I said, "I've never sinned before Chief." :P

"So you've never looked at a woman lustfully?"

"I have, but that's what I call human nature."

Another time, we were having a party and he said, "This is like when Jesus fed all those men with nothing more than bread."

I said, "Jesus fed a few thousand with bread, but Hitler made two million Jews toast."

Thankfully, he has a good sense of dark humor.

What? He didn't even pull the "original sin" thing? What kind of religious zealot does this guy think he is?

He's a Type II Christian - Bible Quoter.

Ah, dem type II Christians.

It's fun when you can find a more substantial chapter or verse that completely contradicts the argument they are trying to make.

If he was quoting the Bible, he ought to remember that the 2k-5k people were fed with fish and bread, not "just bread" (and I assume various assorted meats and water and possibly wine for the affluent folks who had the time to sit down and listen, but...that's besides the point).

When this country makes the kids stand and swear, I mean, pledge their allegiance to it, we call that patriotism. When another country does it, we call that brainwashing and indoctrination. When another country/group kill our people, we call that terrorism, but when we do it, it's defending freedom.

Well duh, that's because we're the good guys.

"'Murica

 We have 2 rules:

Rule 1: We NEVER lose.

Rule 2: If we do lose... Back to first rule."

- Everyone in 'Murica since we lost won at Vietnam.

Technically not a war because WAR wasn't declared by congress. It was a "Policing action".

 

Yeah so technically we haven't lost a war because the U.S hasn't declared war since WW2.

http://www.phinnweb.org/neuro/brainwash/

At least 14 of these are used in school.

It's not just the USA. Every country likes to feel that they are better than everyone else. Everyone needs enemies and scapegoats, too.

Coming from a guy who serves his country currently in the Armed Forces.

 

Nothing wrong with questioning.  I'm a firm believer in 'question everything'.  America will always have things it can do better.  Just like you, the country should constantly seek to grow and better itself as the years go by.  At the end of the day though, kings and kingdoms are run by mortal men.  People screw up, make the wrong choices, seek greed, money and power.  I'm not being pessimistic I'm just being realistic. 

 

As far as equality, I don't let myself fall for the rat race.  People will always judge you by how you look, talk, your culture, etc.  You have to do your best with what you've been given.  You have to be confident in who you are and content with what you have.  I don't need the money, wealth, fame, or status for that.  I wake up every morning and go to sleep every night feeling like I've done my best.  If you're not working towards something, you better start. 

1. Native 'Muricans didn't count as humans back then.

2. Blame the fat old guys from Texas.

3. Do you know anyone higher than 5th grade who even takes the pledge seriously? Other nations have their own pledges as well, but once the pledge starts involving government-worship, we apparently have the right to murder them for it. Also, the army leaders are huge Judge Dredd fans.

4. Of course nobody's equal. Haven't you ever read that one Kurt Vonnegut story?

Hypocrisy comes naturally when a shit ton of people start saying things that they think will apply to everyone else.

Is it just me or is it like Europe has made a lot of progress since then and we, the U.S., are the remnants of their ignorance?

In response to 3, yes. You wouldn't believe the responses I got when I stopped standing for the pledge.

"Do you not love this country?"

Me: "No, I do love this country."

"How can you call yourself American if you don't say the Pledge?!"

Me: "How can you call yourself a Christian if you don't go to church?"

"People fight and die for that flag, and you won't even stand for it!"

Me: "They fight and die to protect and defend the Constitution, which includes 'Freedom of speech'. A freedom that you obviously have an issue with me exercising.

"I bet the dead soldiers would love to stand for the pledge..."

Me: "I bet they would."

Anyway, the Pledge is something that people have been raised to recite every morning without even understanding what it means. People stand and say it like good little children, and it becomes a social norm. It become something that is so traditional that when it isn't followed or it is challenged, it is s problem. No one like when someone challenges tradition, or when someone tries to change something that has been done for a long time. Or even worse, point out the hypocrisy behind it. So yes, I've met many who "took the pledge seriously". Not because they actually had anything worth saying that could defend it or define it's meaning, but because it is just something that always was.

A little off topic, but the salute while saying the pledge changed because of Italy and Germany during WWII.

Edit:  I wonder what would happen if you went back to the traditional salute?  xD

Not trying to start some huge debate here, but America is pretty awesome and I feel it deserves some credit.

 

US is very generous across the board.  Just look up World Giving Index. 

US has the strongest fighting force the world has ever seen.  Countries like China have been waging wars since the dawn of time with a vast military history.  America is very young and essentially built its force from the ground up.

 

Not putting down other countries or saying 'look at how awesome my country is".  I'm Patriotic in Oath and Duty.  Just a different perspective is all.

Most of the political problems I have are at the state level.

Freaking no lottery to appease the southern Baptists grumble grumble grumble...

Southern Baptists? I've only had to deal with Free Will Baptists, Church of the Nazarene, Pentecostals, and a few SDAs.

America has shipped it's manufacturing overseas, so a war with china would be a lost cause.  I doubt they would sell us tanks if we were at war with them or one of their allies.

Americans are sedentary so wars like WWI & II can no longer be fought.  (Unless it's on XBox or something similar.)

As far as the country goes, I agree, it is the least of all evils, but as far as the people go, there are far greater alternatives.

I could also think of several great alternatives to people. ;)

I've never tried long pork, so I can't really say.

What's long pork?

Human flesh.

Best kind o' flesh!
 

Besides coconut flesh. Mmm...coconut.

That's coconuts!

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

I'm just surprised and glad you didn't say cokernuts.

*cokersnuts...

XD

Cokernuts. Coker-Cola. Poker with Coker. I've heard it all.

I have heard that certain cuts of human taste like pork, but I didn't know they already came up with a name to reflect that. I should have been able to infer that from the context of our conversation, though.

The main problem I'd think with eating human flesh, is that humans tend to be pretty unclean.

The careful cannibal would probably be best sticking to vegetarians, health nuts and certain religious groups that tend to eat healthy such as the Amish and Mormons.

Probably should stay away from eating the brain as well. The prions within can damage your own brain when ingested. Doesn't matter how you prepare the brain either, you run a severe risk of catching Kuru which ultimately causes you to lose all motor functions, laugh like a maniac constantly and ultimately die.

Yeah, you just use the brain to tan the hide and keep the nipples from decomposing when you make them into a belt.

"The careful cannibal would probably be best sticking to vegetarians, health nuts and certain religious groups that tend to eat healthy such as the Amish and Mormons."

Personally I would stay away from the Amish and Mormons, I mean they are so inbred that CWD could be a real threat.

Well, really, once an animal reaches sexual maturity, its flesh becomes tougher and develops a strong, gamey taste. Therefore the only humans worth eating would be children and possibly younger women.

But, as you say, Mormons should be avoided. I don't know about the Amish, and to be honest, I have no knowledge of what CWD is.

Mad Deer, Mad Elk, Mad Cow.  Mad HuMan.  CWD is Chronic Wasting Disease, it's what man in his infinite wisdom has done to the environment just to make another dollar.

Oh, in cows it's called Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy. I was unaware of other names, but I know it has been linked to the use of beef tallow in feed lots.

The are all grouped together as Transmissible spongiform encephalopathies.  I was actually reiterating EndMaster's statement about prions (Prion Disease).  I thought the education system might have let someone else fall through the cracks.  Glad to know that my tax dollars haven't been a total waste, though.  XD

" I thought the education system might have let someone else fall through the cracks."

I assume you are referring to me, in which case I should point out that we were never taught about that in High School. I happen to read quite a bit, and I picked up that bit in a book by Michael Pollan.

I was just making a joke.  It hadn't even been invented by the time I graduated HS.  I had read about long pork (or "long pig"), however, when we were studying the Donner Party.

Not to be confused with "all-night-long-pork" which is usually considered one of the higher achievements of a young male's life, rather than a frowned upon dietary choice.

XD  Another example of my tax dollars at work.  xD

Your tax dollars? Nah, that was the internet talking! Your tax dollars told me that babies come from Santa!... Well, I guess my mom did do that one porno, but I highly doubt scary-perm Santa boinked EVERYONE'S mom...

Wow!  Now I truly understand that SNL video!

Ain't no party like a Donner party.

'Cuz a Donner Party don't stop 'till James Reed gets the fuck out of there and writes a really sad-ass book about it.

So now my question is,

If you could up and move anywhere in the world, where would you go?

Let's assume you would be placed in a similar career/home/situation you're in now.

Unless the US starts treating Waffle Day as a national holiday, and stops treating those tasteless eggo wafers like real waffles, I'm going straight to Sveden.

I wouldn't abandon my country, so it would still be the US, but I would stick to rural and farming communities where people still know the value of a dollar and have a strong work ethic.

I live on a farm, presently. I've heard English farms are cool... 

I hear they're slightly colder than the farms up here in Wisconsin. And they have more clouds.

Clouds? England? No, no! We never have clouds! Quickly, come visit with all of your tourist money!

I'll pass. Last time I came the clouds were so thick that my money got soggy and they had to wring out the plane before going on the return trip. Since my tourist was all ruined, I threw it into a field, where it was eaten, digested, and shat by a massive hoard of sheep.

It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia England.

Off topic, but I'm about to post something and you guys could respond on the topic please! it's about larping.  I'm trying to understand why my bro is addicted to it.

I'm a pretty avid player of D&D, so I can explain... probably.

People tend to enjoy the feeling of being greater than they are. That's why we play D&D, video games, CYOAS, parser games... Everything. It's all about being someone else.

LARPers take it a bit further, actually embodying the character physically. I would LARP, but it's all I can get my friends to do is to play Dungeons and Dragons... 

and even that's a stretch. 

please post this to the other thread i started!

What do I think?

All empires rise and fall. The problem is that the leaders and politicians don't care about controlling the decline the USA faces and basically could have learned from the mistakes previous empires made (like the Romans for example).

Trying to fix America is impossible, it's too big, too diverse and I'd say better off split up into different areas (probably a loose republic in the red states with the existing states basically joining where possible). For the blue states they can play with their liberal ways, welfare and 'equality' until the cows come home. Then we'll see who is standing after a few years...

Spliting the line between blue and red would result in civil war. I don't doubt that. Hopefully it will be a battle of East vs West instead of North vs South.

Live and let live is a good philosophy, but without the backbone of our society — the farmers — liberals would surely fail.  But without the liberal views on just reward for effort, the conservatives would degrade into a third world country.  While not ideal, and extremely irritating (to say the least), the balance we have is the best we can hope for.

Well eventually every great empires time ends and i have a feeling the united states era of dominance is going to end soon.
All hail our future Chinese emperors lol.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Tyler Danann!!

Just my opinion Cobalt, everyone's got one.

On this thread it's like a microcosm of the USA in some ways....

Sorry, dude.  I didn't mean it sarcastically.  I like your idea, it's different.

I don't think it's that absurd of an idea, though. It's true that throughout history, powerful civilisations have risen only to fall again eventually. It's naive to think that the USA will be the way it is for ever. In fact, we're probably seeing the end of its era and the rise of China right now, or at least very soon.

No worries mate.

I think the liberal welfare has a place but it's just so abused and mishandled it will collapse under it's own (dead) weight before long.

Too bad it has to drag the rest of us down with it, just like the conservatives do with their own brand of logic.

Rise of the moderates?

Unpatriotic fool! Bow before the confusing and messy system of totallynotarealdemocracy in America!

"When You Come to a Fork in the Road, Take It!" — Yogi Berra

That's unsanitary.

"If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else." — Yogi Berra

The US falling as a world power (empire) is summed up with this quote.

 

"the potentially challenging powers often referred to as the “BRICs,” (Brazil, Russia, India and China) face a dilemma as they attempt to elbow their way into more prominent positions in international affairs: their economic ascent and well-being is dependent on a stable world order underwritten by U.S. power. Thus they cannot successfully challenge U.S. leadership without undermining their own interests."

But then there's this,

 

 

Oh noez! The Chinese are funding their military personnel than US! We must fix this at once! (sarcasm)

To bad I'm late to the show(thread) again. Most of my points are already stated. lol

Pfft, that's only because it costs more for them to train meatshields than real soldiers!  'MURICA THE BRAVE FOR DISPROPORTIONATE MILITARY SPENDINGS.

Just realized this is more than a little bit outdated; we're at 17 trillion deficit.

That being said, if China does feel like purchasing us and getting into fisticuffs with the inanely-armed stagnant empire that 'Murica is, which country do you guys wanna bounce to?

Cuba obviously.

Tu hablas espanol?

I wouldn't even leave, therre's plenty of wilderness left in the US, especially if it's an 'all-bets-are-off' situation.

Whoa, there is no contest here.

 

US would utterly destroy China in an armed conflict.  Our military presence all across the globe and speed of deployment would straight up murder them.  And it would be impossible to invade the US and be successful.  You can message me and rub it in my face if it ever happens.  What a joke.

Agreed^

You forgot to add that the US has more powerful allies.

Though we don't seem to be doing a good job at keeping them as allies. 

America, for good or ill has also successfully spread its corporate/hollywood culture feces across the world much like England once did with its culture (And that's STILL effecting things to this day such as English being the go to language for conducting business)

People might bitch about it, but we're pretty much everywhere even without the need for military outposts on the provinces. Even if we "fell" we're not really "going away."

Not 'going away' in the sense that the cultural influence will no longer be there, just that it won't be THE world superpower that it once was (and probably still is just now).

So what level of education did you receive before joining the military? 
 

Gotta love cock-measuring competitions...
 

No. Although we have the most technologically advanced military in the world, we are not impossible to defeat (eg. Vietnam). Also, you seem to be forgetting the Russia-China military alliance that was made recently. While both those countries are a couple decades behind us in technology, they are far ahead in numbers alone, especially when you consider how much our military numbers have been reduced. That is to say that numbers alone doesn't ensure victory.

I can't say much for our military leadership, but I can say that I'm not confident in our current Commander-In-Chief and his  ability to lead our armed forces. Russia and China alone could crush the U.S, even if it was a battle on our own territory. However, we have to consider allies.

We likely will have the support of a few European countries such as: France, Britain, Spain, etc. But still, Russia-China will be able to gain the support of the countries that either despise us and reluctantly work with us, or are just waiting for a chance to get back at us. These countries could include: Germany, Japan, North Korea (which will most likely take South Korea with Chinese support), and maybe even Mexico.

In short, I'm confident that we could hold our own against China or Russia alone, and more so if we fight them here. But fighting them both would not end well for us.

I don't really see how we can last more than a couple months without Chinese imports.  Like I stated before, we no longer have a manufacturing base.  And they can repopulate faster than we can manufacture arms.  Unless we are willing to make the planet uninhabitable, we can't win.

I don't think Vietnam is a good example.  When I stated we are impossible to defeat I meant Invasion/Take Over.  Yeah we got our asses kicked in Vietnam, but there's no chance in hell Vietnam could launch an attack on the US and overthrow anything.

 

China has numbers but the tech is a huge factor.  They could not effectively deploy all those numbers to the US due to lack of Carriers.  If China built some magical portal that could instantly transport their huge fighting force to the US, then I'd shit my pants.  But logistically, they just can't do it.

I did mention the Russia-China military pact. We can beat them alone if they fight us here, but should they fight together we will lose.

And, although this is a very old example since we've come along way since then, the British did kick our asses in the War of 1812. They fought us here.

Well put.

I think that would be WW3.

We live in the calm before the storm, the tides come and class against the walls of America. Our once great monuments and statues lay rusted and crumbling; much like that of the old empire itself. In these coming of days, we bear witness to the fall of an empire. As it has been fated, since the beginning days of our empire, that we would be fated to fall like our parent once did. As the sky darkens, and the air thickens, lines of blood will be drawn in the tapestry of time; forever engraved in the history of mankind. On that day, where shall you stand? On that day...the day...of reckoning.

Epic speech.

 

You a soldier too?

No not yet. What gave you that impression? :P

I'm going either Air Force, Navy, or Law Enforcement. I also want to get into politics, but that's just wishful thinking. I think I have the mind for it.

Malkallak wrote this earlier: "So what level of education did you receive before joining the military? "

Didn't know if he was asking you or me.  Do you want to go enlisted route or commissioned (officer)?

Commissioned. It suits me more than being an enlisted, and hopefully I won't be one of those asshole officers who is right when they're wrong.

Tip : training for SEALs scare even Marines.

Actually we won't because Humans as a species believe heavily in taking everything down with us. If China and Russia found the balls to attempt to attack us on our home turf and there was a chance we would lose the big red button gets pushed and everything goes.

Your also forgetting the number of Americans who own weapons and would gladly kill enemy invaders. Sure maybe some of the bigger cities might be taken but the backwoods would be pure hell for any invader.

Numbers-wise, we didn't really lose Vietnam so much as we did take unnecessary casualties and abruptly leave after the hippies voted the old pro-war guys out of office, but we really DID get murdered in 1812, burnt the damn White House and everything. The only reason we aren't still part of the British empire is because we annoyed their diplomats until they decided subjugating the US was more trouble than it was worth.

Well the British had a bigger problem in 1812. Well maybe littler problem his name was Neoploean and with his empire building he effectively forced the British to ignore us.

Yes maybe, but if Russia joins China it would be a different tale. America has the advantage of being a large landmass, population etc is nearly impenetrable for a hostile army in conventional warfare.

Well.. the planetcake could explode I guess? That would stop Mr. Sam.

I got my Bachelor's degree in Business Administration and then enlisted.

Just general business, or did you get a BBA in a specific field, such as Marketing, Accounting, Management Information Systems, etc?

Management

Hmm...nothing wrong with that. I'm fixing to transfer and start on my Bachelor's in Accounting.

I hated accounting,good luck.  Had to take two semesters of it.

A lot of people hate accounting. I find that accounting (and coding) seem to have a therapeutic value...to me, at least.

I should prob leave this thread alone.  Too passionate about America, fuckyeah!

Brazil yay! China yay! Russia yay! India yay! 

>.> What?

As long as we got Solid Snake on our side, we're good to go!

+1 Snake knows the score, along with Snake Plisskin too of course :)

What you're saying may sound all smart and authentic, but it really isn't. If anything, I think its becoming a trending opinion that America is evil and its 'dark' past gives permission for people ignoring the good it has done. And while you explicitly stated that wasn't your intention, I just felt to point this out.

Then there is that we are all created equal. In my opinion, we are not created equal. People have different levels of intellect, different physical attributes, different levels of wealth (that you can be born into). Think about it, would walk up to someone like Bill Gates and say that you are equal to him? I think not. The best we can do to create some level of equality is make laws and rules that can even out the playing field. However, even those laws and rules are broken on a daily basis.
While what Swift says was true (Blacks were considered 3/5s human at the time) its more the fact that I think you're misunderstanding what 'equality' was. You're mixing it up with the popular belief of individualism. What equality was, as stated by the DoI, that all men have certain rights that the government cannot take away, since they are inherent and given from God. (Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness). Very little to do with the different genetics that allow you to go far in life.
'Evening out the playing field' is opposed since its forcing everybody else to play at the slowest man's pace, thus restricting their freedom, which is counterintuitive. Regardless, you could totally say to Bill Gates that you are equal to him, because you are. Not monetarily, not by intelligence, or even by physique; you're equal to him because you have the inherent right to live and follow your dreams (even if they don't come true.)
Though even I'll admit the federal gov. was totally assholish to the natives, you should also look at it from a less-biased side. The Native Americans didn't want to be Americanized, as most Americans wanted them too, and America was a growing country that had to survive several wars just as it started out. Thanks to the free market and the concept of private ownership, America needed more room to grow because of all the immigrants that, despite of how evil America was, wanted to come here in shiploads. Additionally primitive natives took up a lot of land, because they wanted free-range and buffalo to hunt, etc, and the superstition the settlers had wasn't helping.
As for the freedom of oppurtunity, and how people with different skin-colors and sexual orientations get the short end of the stick is really due to public opinion. Nobody wanted uneducated Blacks to vote due to both racism and the fact that most couldn't read at the time. LGBT caused problems for the many religious citizens of America, but even then they could still vote (in theory) and work hard to get a good job. The government gave them all the rights except marriage, afaik. Public opinion, however, would cause violence against them if they 'deviated' in public. But public opinion is public opinion, nothing was really going to change it except for time (though I think that's part of the idea of legalization gay marriage, to make it simply more accepted.)
Still, gays are allowed to live (even if lynchings are kinda hard to stop), and are allowed to be happy by porking the same gender in private . Just can't be recognized by the government as an actual marriage (for now, at least.)
And then you look at other countries and see how bad they treat gays (Russia, and anywhere in Saudi Arabia), Jews (almost everywhere in Europe), Blacks (Europe as well), etc-- and you realize America isn't that bad afterall.

When this country makes the kids stand and swear, I mean, pledge their allegiance to it, we call that patriotism. When another country does it, we call that brainwashing and indoctrination. When another country/group kill our people, we call that terrorism, but when we do it, it's defending freedom.
Uh... What exactly are you referring to? The first thing that comes to my mind is when I hear a report that Muslim Extremists teach their kids to run into minefields to clear the way, but I think its pretty self-explanatory why I think there's a difference between that and what America does in public school :P. When another country kills our soldiers, they're killing our soldiers. When we send troops to other countries we're primarily defending ourselves from terrorists, lest they take over the government and attack us. (Not that I support giving foreign aid for free, but its waaaaaaay different than how you're wording it, IMO)

That's my take on things, anyway. (Apologies beforehand for grammar errors, its late.)

Going along with what Tan said, not everything is black&white. There is good and bad all across history(past/present/future) so it's up to us to choose how we view it. 

What was that quote again?  “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

^Jewish propoganda from the Mustache!

That's the correct quote by George Orwell.

"Four legs good, two legs bad better."

An excellent example of the fact that any government, regardless of the reasons and circumstances behind its formation, will eventually grow to put the desires of the elite over the desires of the country's other constituents.

He's comparing America to England, not to other places.

I highly doubt he was referring to Britain the entire post, and even then I'd say there're some mighty differences between America and Britain, especially at the time they broke off.
 

Yep, there was those wanting freedom from central government / the crown and those that wanted to be looked after (relatively speaking).

I wasn't comparing the U.S. to England.