WatchNon-threaded

Forums » The Lounge » Read Message

A place to sit back, hang out, and talk about anything you'd like.

Female Characters

4 years ago

It's not that there's a big difference, it's that people perceive big differences.

Female Characters

4 years ago

Kiel's an expert on gender differentials.

Female Characters

4 years ago

(... Either that was an odd compliment, a confusing insinuation, or sarcasm.)

I've written about both guys and girls. I don't find either gender more complicated or simpler. A human being is a human being.

Female Characters

4 years ago

Sarcasm haha. Your writing doesn't mean much and certainly doesn't necessarily represent an accurate portrayal of male/female experiences. Just because an author can write vague enough main characters doesn't mean ?e's doing service to either gender. Happens to be men and women in most (if not all) cultures grow up differently due to both natural inclination and gender roles provided by environment. It is thoroughly understandable why a female would be more regulated to writing female characters (as she has her own experiences to mark on) and the vice versa as a male. Interesting characters are more than their genitalia, sure, but they also grew up with those genitalia, with appropriate hormones and public reaction due to it.

Female Characters

4 years ago

You thought I referring to my writing on here? I wasn't. Though "your writing doesn't mean much" is a tad rude. That said, your opinion is your opinion. If you prefer to think of women as mysterious and difficult creatures just because they don't have dicks, that's your prerogative.

Female Characters

4 years ago

Snerk! Point to Kiel. Sorry, Tans, buuuut you're also really damn young. The opposite sex grows less mysterious with age, I promise. And yes, it's a little rude of me to say so, buuuut I'll blame the insomnia. Sorry (not sorry). 

Female Characters

4 years ago

Moved comment over here.

Re: Choice of Games giving you a "choice" of genders.

Im my experience, it's an utterly meaningless choice.  Your gender is completely irrelevant to the story/character.

This is just me, but there's no point at all beyond self-congratulatory smugness in allowing the player to choose their gender when it has zero effect on the story or character.

You're not actually playing as a female.  It's the equivalent of letting the player select Robert or Kyle as their name and acting like it matters.

----------

Re: tan's comment re kiel's writing:  I can't presume to know for sure, but the way I read it was afaict, even though kiel's games let you choose genders, it doesn't impact the story beyond pronoun choice.  (ie: Nikki is still Nikki whether s/he's Nicole or Nicholas.)

Female Characters

4 years ago
Yeah. Pretty sure Tan's point was that making everything "she" instead of "he" and other minor changes isnt the same as playing an actual female character.

A more interesting, tangential topic would be why do so many of our female authors here write male protagonists?

Female Characters

4 years ago

What I've been told is that the assumption is that women will read/play male protagonists, but men don't like to be girls.

Female Characters

4 years ago

Guess I don't fit the norm because I read/write both.... But I do find it interesting that men don't like to read/play as females. Is that true? If so, I may need to rewrite my current story lol. (Not really  :P)

Female Characters

4 years ago
No, its not really true. Seth was just saying its an assumption. Look at the stories with female main characters and you wont find much complaining among guys for playing a girl.

Female Characters

4 years ago

There are multiple male and female characters who do not change with choice in my games (Layne, Melissa, Vidia, Arabella, any and all parents, Lance, Fang, Lilia, and ... actually, it's easier to just list the only people who do change, and that would be the protagonists of both games and Nikki) and he still stated my writing here "didn't mean much" so ... apparently they only count as relevant portrayals of gender if they're playable characters, I guess.

Female Characters

4 years ago
Well, the topic is about writing female main characters, not how well you can write female characters in general.

Tan's point was you can't do she/he with a new name and claim you get the experience of both, because being a girl or boy is bound to result in different experiences. Society has different expectations, so inevitably people would treat them differently in the story.

Really though, you'd have to ask a girl for her opinion here. If she read the story thinking it was geared towards her even if it was a superficial change, than there's nothing wrong with that.

Female Characters

4 years ago

I'm def not trying to neg kiel's writing or gender savvy. 

Separate point:  I mean, check my privilege here, but it seems like when women ask about games with female leads, sometimes they seem to mean, like otome games.

 

Female Characters

4 years ago
Requesting someone check your privilege?!

That's it, I'm revoking your man-card.

Female Characters

4 years ago

Who made you the man card card man, man?

Female Characters

4 years ago
If written correctly it will matter. A female being subjected to prejudice, sexism, and the like... the male being presumed stronger or braver than he actually is... If the choice is included, the writer needs to make sure the choice matters.

Female Characters

4 years ago

Re COGs

Something I feel people are forgetting is that, yes, having a penis/vagina might not change much naturally, but certainly it changes a lot via culture. Like, imagine if Secret of Daphne was written from a males prespective. It'd be incredibly different, and if it wasn't, it'd feel off, flat. Part of building a proper character is realizing what and how society shapes people. Just like how being born rich will alter your perceptions in culture, so to will being born gay, straight, bi, male or female or trans. Giving a choice and saying "yo look at this" is absolutely meaningless if it doesnt actually change anything but the pronouns. So re Morgan, yes, the woman is not a mythical creature, but shes not built the same way a human male is. Fantasy lets things slide a bit, but even then, good quality writing won't ignore the subtle (and not so subtle) differences. 

Female Characters

4 years ago

Astute as always, Aman. ^_^

I'll just add this: The reason it gets easier to write cross-gender as you get older, is because as you get to know the men/women/whatevers in your life better, you get to see the commonalities beneath the differences.

The More You Know, et cetera.

Female Characters

4 years ago
So how old do you have to be before you undercover the secrets of owls?

Female Characters

4 years ago

There are owls of every age, from egg to elder. If we have secrets, well... no one's told me them yet. ^_~

Female Characters

4 years ago

I see your point, but keep in mind that you are a male and the majority of games do have a male protagonist. As a female I definitely like being given the option to play a female character. ^_^

Female Characters

4 years ago

I do, too... buuut I want it to matter, too. Which is greedy of me, and I KNOW how hard it is to do cross-gender stuff well... but I do think there's something to what CoG is doing. Even if I'm not convinced it needs to be universal across their entire Choice of Games label. 9_9

Female Characters

4 years ago

One of the main things that bothers me in the COG lineup, aside from the cost, is the duplicity involved in their marketing. As in, they advertise the ability to choose sex and sexuality as their top point, but in reality it's a sham, and they really shouldnt be acting like it's one of their top qualities. I mean, I can't even think of a game where people even noted anything. Everything was basically done like Broadisdes, as in, gender/sexuality flipping everyone. Which is a bit silly. 

Female Characters

4 years ago

Even when it's cosmetic, it matters to me. It changes how I imagine the character. And, well... CoG is like, two to three people, not counting volunteers. Plus whatever authors they can find, to write hundreds of thousands of words, in a medium that requires both writing skill and scripting skill. I may be biased (I do hope to publish with them, someday), but I think they're doing a decent job of it. Even if I disagree with some of their choices.

Female Characters

4 years ago

I respect your opinion.  I still say it's as cosmetic as letting me choose a character with my hair color.  

As a person with normal colored hair, you can never understand the struggle of being forced to play a brunette or a blonde.  It totally ruins my suspension of disbelief.

(Yes that was snarky, but I contend my opinion is & would be my opinion regardless of my biological sex or gender.) 

That said, if it matters to you, it's not like it should be that hard for designers/authors to add a purely cosmetic choice.

(Says a guy who will spend over an hour designing his characters face in Fallout or Dragon Age.  They *never* have enough good hairstyles.)

Female Characters

4 years ago
What is normal coloured hair?

Female Characters

4 years ago

I also like choosing my character's hair colour. cheeky

Female Characters

4 years ago

q.v. Ninja edit. XD 

 

Female Characters

4 years ago

Agree 100% here. It's not really a story with a choice of a female protagonist or any choice at all when it's just the matter of the exact same story with the option to change names added as an afterthought.

What Endmaster is planning to do with Rogues is the ideal solution, IMO. You have a choice of protagonists and they're both they're own characters too.

Female Characters

4 years ago

But what happens when Endmaster says you're very SPECIAL?

Female Characters

4 years ago

Thought the topic died but since it sprouted into several offshoots I'm inclined to note further. 
My point was an amalgam of Killa, Seth, and Aman's points, plus a little something else tucked into a reasoned and delightfully compact paragraph made in 2 minutes. Of course, reasons go nowhere online, as penis-size, ad hominem and patronizing follow. It's certainly wise to attack my age without even considering the contents of my post, because it throws off credibility without having to discuss. It's juvenile, but I'll elaborate a bit out of boredom and freetime without a laptop to do other stuff.
Kiel noted that he has "written about guys and girls." That is a meaningless statement in the conversation, period. Kiel saying he's "gender-blind" (to paraphrase, and I ask that you not take that term literally) is also pointless, since it does not suddenly mean that women and men are the same with only 'percieved' differences-- it's much more than that, in reality, because there really are differences that many seem to ignore.
So, assuming you read Killa/Seth/Aman's posts, put this in your shake-- differences between men and women growing up in any civilisation is not just something a male teen accused of finding women obfuscating believes-- it's basically why the Feminist movement exists. Women grow up in society and face different challenges than men (and vice versa), and translating that to writing and concocted worlds is more complicated than switching up genitalia, this originally refuting Kiel's original statements about there not being many gender differences and how it shouldn't really affect writing (at least, that's what I got from it.) I think/know it really does if you're a good writer (see Secret of Daphne or even semi-dreck like BuffyVampHunter): so COGs market of gender choice is pointless and meaningless; acting gender-blind ('a human being is just a human being'-esque simplicity) when creating characters is lazy and lends to 2-dimensional characters; and ignoring cultural trends and complexities is a disservice to whatever world you're representing, not to mention the characters. Basically.

After saying basically all that in one paragraph, the response completely ignored it to focus on patronization,
"If you prefer to think of women as mysterious and difficult creatures just because they don't have dicks, that's your prerogative." 
"The opposite sex grows less mysterious with age, I promise."

I'm just confused where that comes into play as a response. It misses the point thoroughly and is, as aforementioned, juvenile-- so Mizal prophesied correctly haha. 

Female Characters

4 years ago
Haha, what an incredible faggot Kiel is.

Female Characters

4 years ago

As if a girl would understand :P

So classic fallacy-fallacy. Wasn't intentional but fiiiiiine-- conversation got out, so successful thread I guess. Huzzah.

Female Characters

4 years ago
Haha, what an incredible faggot Kiel is.

Female Characters

4 years ago

I didn't think it was pointless, it was a fascinating display of the complex nature of the typical male psyche which always involves trying to aggressively establish one's dominance over the other so as gain the most power and respect of their tribe.

Obviously if Tan and Kiel were ladies, they would have settled their differences by talking it out in civilized manner, followed by a playful pillow fight and then making out with each other.

Female Characters

4 years ago

Lmao.  :D        That's hilarious. But also a typical male opinion, Endmaster. Some of us women like a good 'bitch fight' though, instead of talking it out in a civilized manner...  Especially when other people are blatantly rude for no reason. Just my opinion.

Female Characters

4 years ago

True, but the "bitch fights" usually involve pillows... Or mud. Naked mud wrestling is a wonderful pastime for females to settle their differences. ^_^

Female Characters

4 years ago

...I disagree! Vehemently! >:D

Female Characters

4 years ago

Very wise Morgan. All that mud can cause some rather nasty infections if you're not careful, but jello makes for a suitable alternative. ^_^

Female Characters

4 years ago

Oooh. I always KNEW jello wasn't meant to be a food, but I never realized that you could use it for such nefarious purposes! Delicious! ^_~

Female Characters

4 years ago

Lmao. (Guess I am mistaken.) Maybe I just don't fit into the norm standards... but I tend to be violent sometimes, well when I'm provoked... 

Female Characters

4 years ago

...yeah. I mean, I'm not, but I can understand the impulse. I personally refrain from violence because I don't know how to hurt someone without killing them. I mean, I do in theory, but in practice? It seems too easy to me, to end someone.

Gonna take some tai chi and them some aikido, though. Because I want to know how to handle myself in a fight. Non-lethally.

Female Characters

4 years ago

I wonder if there are pillow fighting classes for a more traditional form of female self defense. frown

Female Characters

4 years ago

So, British people don't carry sex toys on their persons for self-defense. Damn it, MadBrad, you lied to me.

Female Characters

4 years ago

That could work too, particularly the glass ones. You could always smash them over someone's head if things turn nasty ^_^

Female Characters

4 years ago
Nnnniiiiiiiiiigggggggggggggggggeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrr!

Female Characters

4 years ago

Snerk. No, for that you want Australia, I think. Could be wrong, though, I've never set foot on Australia. But you gotta figure with all the lethal-as-fuck critters, you're gonna want a way to deal with them... non-lethally. ;)

Female Characters

4 years ago

The Australians' preferred method of dealing with critters is to pepper the landscape with 1080, then break out the spotlights and machine guns.

Female Characters

4 years ago
We once had an emu war which failed spectacularly. They just outran the bullets when we stuck machine guns on the backs of our utes.

Female Characters

4 years ago

Female Characters

4 years ago

I actually have a domestic violence charge on me (sigh.) Not proud of it, but sometimes can't control the impulse to lash out... especially if someone is yelling in your face saying unspeakable things. (I haven't had the easiest life, though.) Ah well.

Female Characters

4 years ago

And btw its actually harder to kill someone than you might think...

Female Characters

4 years ago

Oh you'd be surprised actually. Pillows can also be used for smothering. ^_^

Female Characters

4 years ago

Lol... been there, done that. Hard to do trust me. (Especially when your opponent outweighs you by 150 lbs.) 

Female Characters

4 years ago

Oh, I know that too. But not in the same visceral way, because I've never been in a fight.

In our childhood & teenage scuffles, I was always the eldest. So nobody fought with me, even in play. Or if they tried, well... I'm 5'10, and my balance has always been good. Pain tolerance, too. So they weren't going to get very far with me... not without weapons. Which weren't sporting, of course.

Female Characters

4 years ago

Oh the joys of being an oldest sibling. I was small. My hair got pulled a lot. It hurt. sad

Female Characters

4 years ago
Oh yeah, being the oldest is great.

Everyone expects you to be the best, look out for everyone else, and none of your younger siblings ever have to feel obligated to return the favour, cause they're younger.

The joys indeed.

Female Characters

4 years ago

Really? Man I got lucky. Being first born basically meant I got to basically trail blaze. Whatever I got in grades was awesome, whenever I'm surpassed it doesnt matter, and my siblings are supposed to treat me with respect ha ha. Its great so far.

Female Characters

4 years ago

Always got into fights with Tan, even when I was taller then him (for a very short peiod of time, alas). Also with classmates, and I Mean, I look intimidating. Never really helped with guys, ha ha. 

Female Characters

4 years ago

So long as nobody touched the 'tache ^_^

Female Characters

4 years ago

No offense, but I have actually seen more fights between two or more women than I have between two or more men.

Female Characters

4 years ago

Speaking as your friendly local "lesbian"...

...it's all fun and games until somebody chips a nail. ^_~

Female Characters

4 years ago

Lmao right.... (not that I have any. I keep mine short.) P.S.... didn't know you were a girl. Smh.

Female Characters

4 years ago

Oh, REAL lesbians all have short nails. ;)

Aaaand I'm kind of a woman, sometimes, I guess? I'm mostly androgynous-presenting, but a friend of mine has been coaxing me towards femininity. And despite my owlishness, I do find nail polish to be... fun. Even if it chips eventually.

Nice to see another female face, so to speak. It tends to be a bit of a boy's club around here, but don't let that bother you. They're mostly civilized. ;)
 

Female Characters

4 years ago
Define "civilized..."

Female Characters

4 years ago

You first. ;)

Female Characters

4 years ago

I feel like I've just been other-ed a bit. :(

Female Characters

4 years ago

Sorry. If it helps, I think otherkin are awesome. ^_^

(No sarcasm. I know everyone punches down, and otherkin are the low man on the totem pole right now, right? Furries punch down at Otherkin. But I don't punch down OR up. I'm a fucking pacifist, right? ;P)

Female Characters

4 years ago
Awwwwwww.

Please tell me we don't actually have someone here who believes they're a (non-human) animal?

Female Characters

4 years ago

A non-human animal? As opposed to all the human animals? cheeky

Female Characters

4 years ago
Humans ARE animals ^_^

I made the distinction to prevent a "but humans are animals!", reply. Glad to see it worked so well, lol.

Female Characters

4 years ago

Oh yeah cheeky

Female Characters

4 years ago

He knows I would mouth off if he said "animals", because that's one of the words that makes me cringe when I hear it misused, like "sentient" or "decimate" or "thaw".

For crying out loud, people, to "unthaw" something is to freeze it again. Damn!

Female Characters

4 years ago

I AM A GODDAMN SEXUAL TYRANNOSAURUS!

Female Characters

4 years ago

I am agnostic on the subject... but belief in reincarnation is a time-honored tradition.

 

Female Characters

4 years ago

Otherkin?Oh my God, they know I'm a fennec.

Female Characters

4 years ago

Yeah, you know, those guys that make it difficult to tell who is and isn't genuinely psychotic on the internet anymore. I saw that edit, you spirit-animal-holding-onto hippy! Who the fuck has a spirit animal!? I don't need one of those petty things! I know very well that I AM a horse! I am reminded of that fact every time these new T-patches cause me to rip my goddamn pants!

Female Characters

4 years ago
Wubba Lubba Dub Dub!

Female Characters

4 years ago

Aw geez Rick. 

Female Characters

4 years ago

Moved to clarify the OP thread while still allowing for discussion.

Female Characters

4 years ago

There's not much of a big difference if you don't change the choices base on the main character's gender.

Female Characters

21 days ago
Endmaster went thread diving and dug this one up, I just had to bump it because it's pretty amusing in hindsight and there's a pretty diverse mix of characters here.

Haha, what an incredible faggot Kiel was.

Female Characters

21 days ago
I recognize more users in this thread than 99% of threads from this year.

Female Characters

21 days ago
Oh my god a 4 year bump. Can someone ban this menace?

Female Characters

21 days ago

I wonder whatever happened to Sky, she was actually in the ye olde Villain Lair at one time.

Female Characters

21 days ago
She just vanished one day. I thought maybe Steve scared her off, but we may never know.

Female Characters

21 days ago

Our australians have a habit of mysterious disappearances.

Female Characters

21 days ago
I suspect crocodiles. :(

Female Characters

21 days ago
Could be a lot of things. I hear the drop bears are no fucking joke.

Female Characters

21 days ago
Well shit. One I actually missed.

Female Characters

19 days ago
I'm so confused by the OP's statement though. I mean even aside from the fact that generic characters with no background or culture are obviously lame... why would someone who thinks there's no difference between men and women hate lady parts so much they'd pay someone to mutilate them and spend years telling elaborate lies?

Also, why would they try so hard to fuck children? This all seems a little weird.