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Just to avoid makig making mistakes in future conversations with you, let me ask: what's your gender? And and have you always been this way since birth?

Your gender and sex are different things.

Ah, the problems caused by surgeons.

Can you explain more? And why are they different?

The living Iranian ad is asking a sheltered thirteen year old christian to explain centuries of biological findings and brain patterns as well as religious histories and surgical ones. This seems like the start of a bad joke.

Give me an hour or so to compile some sources, I'll give you a more in depth answer.

There's no need for that. Because this difference can probably be explained in a few short lines, and when someone comments on the difference between two words, they likely have at least some idea of the reason behind it.

And what do you mean by "living Iranian ad"?

But if you still want to give a detailed response, I'd be happy to hear it — whether you agree with that foolish act or oppose it.

If you cannot take anyone saying anything bad about the country you come from, then you're brainwashed. I don't care what country it is. I hate the current american government. That makes you a living Iranian Ad.

Anyway, there clearly is a need for this. While this is opinion based seeing as I'm "one of them transsexual queer god-opposin' alphabet folk" (See, this is funny because I happen to be a non-denominational christian as well.)I have cited several sources and can easily find more.

The difference between gender and sex can be summed up fairly easily in the form of intrinsic knowledge. Mizal already gave a fairly good example, but I'd like to give one of my own.

You wake up on a Monday morning and head to work. You get to work and realize the pants you put on are the really, really itchy ones that drive you half crazy. These are the pants your mother gave you, these are the pants you were born with and forced to wear. But they're itchy. They're uncomfortable. They're pink and covered in sequins and you hate those things. "Well," your mother asks, "how on earth could you KNOW you hate those things? Maybe you just need to get used to them." All the people at work laugh at you when you don't wear those pants. They ask you if you're some kind of freak who prefers plaid even though you were born with sequins. You resolve to go out after work and buy jeans. You find a pair that fits you perfectly. You love these jeans. They feel so much better. But when you go to work, everyone starts throwing their pencils at you for wearing jeans. "No," they say, "You were born with pink sparkly pants! You can't change that just because you feel like it!"

In the spirit of the metaphor, there are so many types of pants, and some of them may not fit you as well as others. It's the same with gender.

Sex is more like the eye color in this situation. Sex is biological, the parts you have. Most people have a cock or a cooch. Some rare people have both, none, or a weird combination. Tits vs. no tits, testosterone & estrogen levels, these are all based on Sex.

Back to gender. "How is this different?" You may still be asking. Great question. Why on earth would people ever decide to change their pants? Pink and sparkly means girl, blue and- okay, I'm sick of this metaphor. 'If you have a stick you're a guy, if you have a hole, you're a girl." Right? Easy peasy. But wait a minute. What about those people with both? Huh. Hmm. Well, we could just slap em in a box for freaks, right? But that's millions of people! Well then, where did this VERY CLEARLY MODERN FOR SURE trend among the youngsters come about? Surely some popstar like David Bowie, right? Let's just blame him!

Boy howdy, have I got news. Transgenderism specifically can be traced back to the 4th century. And that's written history. What of lost history from ancient civilizations with non-conforming priests? Or dead/dying languages like Hawaiian or Maori which have words for people other than the male or female? Seems suspicious...

Well. Ultimately, it is up to you whether to believe in this 'foolishness' or not. I can't change anyone's mind, nor am I obligated to defend my existence. But I urge you to research, and ask if you have questions. I will answer to the best of my ability. Meanwhile, I'm going to enjoy my very comfy jeans and set the sequined pants on fire. (Last time, promise!)


A Few Sources I used from Trustworthy Places:

What Do We Mean By Sex And Gender?
Sex VS. Gender
What Is Gender? What Is Sex?
Differentiating Sex and Gender in Health
How Common is Intersex?
History of Transgenderism
Gender Fluidity


Tl;dr, gender is identity, sex is biological but can be changed, I'm a tranny, I love my jeans, post over.

Applying this more precise definition, the true prevalence of intersex is seen to be about 0.018%, almost 100 times lower than Fausto-Sterling s estimate of 1.7%.

Sure seems to me like we can put every 1 in 5500 people into the "box for freaks".

Pretty big box to fit 1.5 million people. At that point, might as well let em roam free.
(Also, may I request that someone fix that link I incorrectly named? It's pissing me off.)

Of course we let them roam free.

But we don't adjust our society to cater for them specifically.

No one said anything about adjusting society. Just allowing people to express themselves however they see fit. Think of gender affirming surgeries as a piercing or tattoo, of sorts. Sure, you could bother someone about having one, but is it really worth all of that trouble to just bother people for no reason?

Now that I say that, you would say yes. But you're also a nazi retard cripple, so.

Piercings and tattoos are degenerate, yes. To a lesser extent than... whatever it is you are, but still degenerate.

Cel, sometimes I want to be driving the second car. <3

Anyways, fun conversation, everyone. Better get back to writing, but thanks for a great break in my daily routine!

There's no way he's going to read all that.

@MissileSender Here, for you, maybe it's easiest just to think of it like this:

Trans people have a mental condition where they genuinely feel like they're trapped in the wrong body. They can't help it, and it can cause them severe anxiety and depression.

I know you're never going to be convinced to think of it as normal so think of it like this. Do you know anyone who suffers delusions, maybe an elderly relative? They really, truly believe what that believe, and you can't logic them out of it by arguing or being angry at them, that kind of thing can only cause additional distress. Wouldn't the best thing to do is just be nice and polite to that person, make them feel as comfortable as possible, and thank God you don't have the same problem?

If you ever encounter a trans person (I doubt you'll run into many people who express themselves that way in a country where the police will murder women for not perfectly following the dress code, but maybe if you're traveling or something) it takes very little effort for you to be courteous to another human.

I like this better, honestly. Probably something he'd actually listen to.

I still can't understand why, with one question from me, a whole separate topic emerges within an unrelated thread.

 

And I will certainly try — without upsetting them — to explain their illness through metaphors and examples, or do my best to help them seek treatment.

 

And by "killing of unveiled women," you're probably referring to Mahsa Amini. I'd really love to write a long post about that, but I'm not interested in starting a new topic :(

Oh wow, what fortune — I've finally managed to encounter a transgender being.

 

First of all, I have never said that I don't accept negative statements about my country. If those statements come with proper evidence and sources, and can be logically examined and verified, I will gladly accept them. But if I can find even the slightest flaw in the content, I will immediately reject it — though if the rest of the text is accurate, I will still accept it.  

So far, most of the things said have been false. If you disagree with my country, feel free to present your reasons and evidence, and I will review them.

 

Secondly: It seems you have been brainwashed — not by others, but you yourself have brainwashed your own little mind, coming up with multiple reasons and justifications for your mental illness, just to convince yourself: "Yes, I am proudly transgender!"  

Most Western governments also support people like you — because they want to drag the human race further into corruption and filth. Why would they do that? The reasons are numerous. One of them is to distance you as much as possible from the truth that every human being should reach.

 

And it's clear why you hate the current U.S. government. No matter how foolish and insane Trump may be, he has done one right thing: putting pressure on sick and incapable people like you — people who were/are welcomed in previous administrations and other European countries.

 

And with all the research you've done on my posts, you probably should have realized that I don't know English and don't understand your foolish slang. When I asked about the meaning of "living Iranian ad," I wasn't protesting being labeled — I was asking for its meaning.  

And again with the jargon. I suggest next time you want information about someone, instead of checking their posts, just ask them directly.

 

I don't think any religion recognizes you ignorant people or even tolerates your existence on Earth. But I believe you *must* be treated.

 

Providing sources isn't a sign that you're powerful or that your cause is right. I could also find sources saying that all of you should become Muslims — and if you study it and still decide to remain in ignorance, we'd even have the right to kill you, according to the Christian Bible as well.

 

The fact that there are numerous sources only shows how much Westerners have spent to justify this illness and turn it into a "choice" — like choosing clothes.

 

And for the thousandth time: using metaphors to confuse a foreigner is not a good tactic — though apparently you've used them deliberately, trying to confuse me however you can.  

I already understood the difference between sex and gender. No need to explain again. And for once, speak clearly.

 

Once again, don't compare things to some pop star or Hollywood or any other stupid entertainment — because a foreigner doesn't know them and doesn't need to.

 

And yes, we do have people born with sexual disorders. And hey boy — they should be treated!  

When a girl is born with eight fingers, governments aren't supposed to spend billions providing resources to tell her: "Hey girl, it's okay — you don't need to cut off your extra fingers!"  

Though I'm sure if governments' agendas align with that, they'd never stop pushing it.

 

And regarding history: we've always had people born with sexual disorders. We're not supposed to kill them — nor encourage them by saying: "Hey boy, you're doing great! You're a good excuse for those who want to be trans but unfortunately God didn't give them extra genitals during fetal development."

 

You can't insult someone to death, try to confuse them, and then wish them success at the end — and expect respect in return!

 

If you don't need to prove your existence, then there was no need for you to write me a manifesto and "easily" provide more sources. You could have simply answered my question in one sentence.

 

And sorry — I'm not an AI. I have duties to myself, my society, and my religion.  

And your sources are probably filtered in my geographic region anyway.

 

I pray that God guides you to a psychologist in a country that does not support transgenderism.

TL;DR not enough missiles

@Celicni

Is this your alt?

Have you ever known me to put so much effort into posts?

You're right, TCat may be more probable.

Just the same, I sure do hope at least one of those missiles goes a couple thousand miles off course and somehow hits Serbia instead.

I’ve done my best to use neutral language and avoid slang, but let me know if this causes you any translation issues.

Hello! I’m also transgender. I’ve been socially and physically transitioned for about 5 years, and have been significantly happier, healthier, and more socially competent as a result.

Out of curiosity: What is your main objection to people who experience “gender dysphoria” (that’s the medical term for the feeling of being trans) transitioning to the opposite gender? Is it mainly a religious or moral objection? Or is it mainly that you believe transitioning is physically or psychologically unhealthy? Or is there some other reason? What do you think the negative consequences are when a person transitions? My response will depend on your answer.

You point out people with sexual disorders ought to be treated. True! Currently, there has been no successful program for psychologically curing “gender dysphoria”. No therapeutic technique has ever consistently worked. But, it has been repeatedly found in scientific studies that trans people’s quality of life improves dramatically when they transition. In the absence of working therapeutic solutions, why is physical transition not an acceptable next-best option?

To address another of your points: some mainstream religious organizations do recognize trans people. The two christian churches I attend welcome trans people.

Starting to think somebody may be doing a bit, so maybe try to restrain your urge for high effort text walls.

I was thinking that, but while I was doing yard work I started to reminisce about the bad old days of CYS. At some point there was a frequent cast member from Greece who had a similar vibe. I can’t remember his userid, but Missile is reminding me a bit of that.

Wasn't that Drako? 

Yeah, I think so. That guy struck me as exaggerating as a form of trolling

In contrast, think MissileSender is just like this for real, lol.

Drakoblare actually turned out to be just a trolling faggot. He actually claimed to be "progressive" later on when Steve was hoping to argue with him. (Steve was really disappointed)

He got himself banned when he kept insisting on doing the edgelord "I'm a giant pedo lol!" routine.

Oh well. Such a disappointment he turned out to be. I enjoy some of the trolling sometimes. Some of them add a nice pizzazz until they get annoying.

Is this a troll? Fuckin hilarious the things we find out in the wild.

Wow I wonder what everyone's been doing on the CYS forum today, I bet they're discussing all the new games we wrote--

Oh.

I fixed the scripting issues in mine today. I don't know that I will flesh it out more, but I'm happy it's not vomiting %TEXT every other page.

lol, fag.

Good luck translating that with AI.

Can I ask, why do you care so much about transgender people?

Yeah I was sort of wondering that too, how are they even remotely having an effect on his life if meeting Liminal was like discovering a unicorn?

Oh, dead gods, it's another self-righteous asshole. Mods, please just nuke them already so we can get on with our lives; we've already had to deal with one of these a week or two ago, we don't need another one.

Oh, and please nuke Celicni while you're at it.

Who is this faggot and why does he insist on jumping on my dick?

I genuinely cannot match the name to anything worthwhile, but I think this is at least the second time I've received hate despite no prior engagement.

A 15 year old boy who hasn't blatantly used AI and then flamed out with 40+ alts is pretty notable just for existing these days.

MOOOOOOOOOOOODS!

*Slams hands on keyboard*

MOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDS!! I NEED YOU NOW!!!

MOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDSSSSSS!!! MOOOOOOOODS! MOOOOOOODS!

@Mizal

@MadHattersDaughter

@Ogre11

WEREN'T YOU A MOOOOOOOOOOOD!? 

WHEREAREYOU!!!!???

MOOOOOOOOOOODS!

I-IT'S CEEEEEELLLLL! AGAIN!!

MOOOOOOOODS!

???

I'm not that whiny. I think. Am I?

If I could get rid of Cel, I would. But my hands are tied. The act of making a story-game increases a person's value by millions! Or being productive in any way, shape or form.

I suggest writing a formal complaint.

Don't lie, you love me.

     Your gender is what you want to be referred to with others when not by name (or nickname), but that's only recently and it used to be only she/her or he/him corresponding with the person's sex, and sex is female or male depending on you know which parts when they're born, although again this has slightly changed recently because now people technically have the ability to change their sex.

At least that's how I understand it.

Your sex is male or female, you know this. Everyone (internally) knows this, no matter what they say.

Your gender is what you come up with when you want to be a unique snowflake.

Not necessarily. I agree with the first part, but for gender that's only the case when it's something other than she/her or he/him, that's just what you use to refer to someone without repeating their name a million times.

I am going to ask you to please stop treating my posts so literally in the future. It will save time for the both of us.

Perhaps google the word "hyperbole" or something, idk.

Hyperbole is exaggerating, not joking...

You are correct about that. As homework you can try to figure out why what I said was an exaggeration of my actual views, and indeed not a joke.

You of all people should recognize autism.

WHAT?! I am not autistic! ><

;(

(/j)

It's a bit more complicated than this. (And this isn't even a political statement). It is quite common for men to have some cells with double X chromosomes. There are quite common endocrinological problems that can give you a female morphology even if you have Y chromosome (and vice versa). And this is isn't even talking about rare stuff like trisomie or rarer ontogenetic screwups. Just sayin'.

Okay, so how this generally works is that "sex" (as in the designation, not the act) refers to male or female in the biological sense.
While "gender" is what someone mentally identifies as, which affects how they dress and act and present themselves in public and the way it's polite to refer to them.
.
There is not always or even most of the time surgery involved the way you seem to be imagining. (You think people can afford medical procedures in America???) Surgery is more of an extreme, people can be trans without that.

I guess think of it like this, say you woke up tomorrow in an alternate reality where you were a white guy who everyone thought was French. You would know, internally, that you were Iranian, and it would feel really wrong for you every time your looked in a mirror, and to have people making baguette jokes or expecting you to act like a snob and dress like a faggot, and to constantly refer to you as "that weird French guy."

So that's basically how it is for trans people, they just "know" they're a different gender than the one everyone thinks they are and treats them as by default, and it feels wrong and uncomfortable for them and in a lot of cases causes genuine mental distress. So even if you think the whole thing is weird and don't agree, it's still the polite thing to do to at least use the preferred pronouns to make somebody feel more comfortable. And you might try looking up gender dysphoria for an explanation of the actual mental effects.

How difficult it has become to understand the truth in this new world full of corruption — but I understand now, thank you.

 

So we have several types of trans people, and one type consists of those who think their gender is wrong and decide to justify this condition within themselves by dressing and behaving like the opposite gender. And unfortunately, governments also give them rights — though I don't necessarily blame the governments for that, for various reasons.

And unfortunately, governments also give them rights

I don't know who this guy is but he's my new favorite noob.

Introduce yourself, celicni.

What do you mean by unfortunately? 

Uh, uh, sweetie.

We don't allow transphobia here.

Banned for 5000 years. 

Don't tell me you're trans too :(

Thara is Endmaster's daughter. She only talks to noobs when she thinks they're extra retarded though so caution is advised.

Yes, I am trans. Initially it was just between myself and your mother, but I've decided that you should also know.

You don't blame governments for a lot of things, we've noticed.

Missile, btw, if you're still reading this, I clicked one of your links earlier and got some kind of cool new CYOA!



Which one do you recommend I try first? 🤔

Oh sorry, the image won't load for me — probably because it's filtered for my Iranian IP. Wait, let me turn on my VPN.

This is not gonna help the alt allegations but the image isn't loading for me either. And so are several others.

The site is slow in general for me currently.

Is postimages.org blocked in shithole countries?

I never knows what image host to use anymore, everything is blocked sonewhere.

That image site was down for like an hour yesterday, at least on my end.

What's wrong with imgur? I'm out of the loop.

Yeah, the image here is blocked for me too. My school did a new round of bans. This website's still unblocked though, lol

The odd thing is that the site itself loads. I can even open up the link to the image.

But then the "core" of the website loads while the image remains broken. So idk what that's about.

Image shows up for me, though I know postit image can sometimes go down all by itself sometimes.

Huh, why can I see it?

Different school districts probably have different systems for bans and whatnot. What is the image?

I'm using my mom's computer. It's kinda like a google form but really not, it's black with white text, a button is in another language it seems, and it's about some Iranian military stuff. I think.

Huh.

Out of curiosity, how did you get your mom's computer? /not-forced-to-answer.

(Edited because I know at least one person will twist the tone tag to something weird)

It is a graphic of a poll that asks: In the event of aggression against Iranian territory, which option should be a priority or target?

The options are Senior U.S. Officials, U.S. Navy and Bases, The vital positions of the Israeli regime, and Closing the Strait of Hormuz.

It appears the vote button is written in farsi or some similar script.

Oh, lol! Thanks for the help

All you really need to know on the internet is what pronouns to refer to somebody by. Over text anybody could technically introduce themselves as anything anyway and you'd never know.

They/them just happens to be grammatically annoying, and I also get irritated when people I already think of as one thing go and change it and then I have to try and remember. Especially when some will be a little indecisive over the years. But Morgan was born with girl parts if that matters. (And presumably still has them!) It's not like everybody who thinks of themselves as one gender or another goes off and has surgery over it.

I agree with you about not changing your gender.

The message seemed — or maybe it was Google Translate's doing — to imply that Morgan was transgender.

Anyone can introduce themselves online under any identity, and we should respond considering that adopted persona, because that's probably the kind of response they expect from us.

I always thought Morgan was a they/them lesbian with green hair

The way I distinguish gender and sex is sorting them them as physical vs biological. Sex is what you are biologically, determined by what sex organs you have, in addition to your chromosome structure. Males have penises, in addition to testicles and XY sex chromosomes, whereas females have the inverse.

Gender is what kind of social category you want to be associated with.

Gender can be broken down further into a few related concepts such as “gender identity ”, and “gender expression”.

Gender identity is more associated with your self-conception. That is to say, how you see yourself internally. For the vast majority of people, gender identity is simple: you are a man or a woman. Most males identify and feel most comfortable living as men, whereas most females feel the same way about womanhood. Gender identity comes with social expectations of what roles you will take in society.

Gender expression is separate, but related. Gender expression can be defined by the social markers you present yourself with. Do you dress masculine, with a rugged cowboy look, or do you dress femininely, such as painting your nails and wearing dresses? Men’s body language tends toward the authoritative or expansive, spreading their arms and legs into wider stances. Women tend to prefer more elegant, feminine stances, such as crossing their legs at the thigh, playing with their hair, and making indirect glances at men.

Ultimately expression is much more amorphous than identity, as what is masculine or feminine can change based on appearance and context. Men can have some feminine traits without becoming women, and vice versa. Someone who has a better grasp of body language and fashion might be able to elaborate more, but my autistic ass doesn’t know how to explain further.

Gender: owl

And no, I was not Assigned Owl At Birth.

In all seriousness... I'm nonbinary. Not a man, not a woman. I didn't realize that was an option, growing up, but I've been identifying as "not a man, not a woman" since before the term "nonbinary" gained traction. I was more reluctant to adopt they/them pronouns, but their usage has become common enough that the grammatical awkwardness is wearing off, so. They/them it is.

Or owl/owl!

Wait do you actually identify as a bird?

Bro even Avo hasn't asked this one.

I’m little sleep deprived today, as I only slept for a few hours, but given my previous experiences with Morgan included some odd conversation details, I couldn’t tell.

Were you around back when I was posting during my first manic episode? Because "odd" might be putting it politely, in that case. Belated apologies. >_<

That explains it. Yeah. You threatened to curse me with your witch powers and told me you could speak to animals, or something.

No big deal. I find it funny nowadays.

Damn. I have literally no memory of that, buuuut it tracks. Thanks for not holding it against me. Mania is WILD.

I don't seem that dumb, do I? (no offense meant, 3iguy)

No offense taken! It was a dumb question from my end.

Only in certain scenarios, and not in this specific way.

No. I'm not actually a furry (feathery?), I'm just easily amused.

Feathery! ^-^

Alright, I'm sorry, but I'm going to be that guy. This just bugs me too much to let go unaddressed.

Technically, someone who believes that they are an animal either have Clinical lycanthropy or is a therian. Furry is a much broader term that slightly includes therians, depending on who you ask.

It’s all petting zoo people to me.

...

pushing down image

Reusing it makes it less funny.

Thanks for the clarification. I'd also add that while I personally have no belief in the supernatural, and therefore don't believe there's any mechanism by which therians could literally be non-human, if anyone looks at humanity and goes "nope, I'm a wolf", whether in the furry way OR the therian way, I completely support them.

Are you sure we can't get witchy Morgan back now and then? Maybe just one weekend a month, no need to overdo it. We could dig up oraclemache and that Ugandan voodoo spammer too, set you up with some tarot cards and a bottle of absinthe, you could do consultations for points.

If I could just hang out being a witch for the weekend, not sleeping and gradually getting weirder and weirder until I finally crashed, slept it off, and came back to reality, then that sounds like a pretty good time. Unfortunately things tend to escalate, I become a danger to myself and others, and I end up in a locked psych unit for a two-week grippy sock vacation. Not worth the risk.

I’m glad you’re doing better nowadays.

Thank you! Me too!

Lol.

Quick question: Is this thread getting split off into its own place?

Yes ^-^

Split the thread

Please continue the hilarity with whatever pronouns you feel comfortable with.

I'm formally declaring that my new pronouns are End/Master.

Denied.

Damn. Guess I'll have to stick to Tha/Ra/Apples then.

Or write a formal complaint. ^-^

I suggest writing a complaint. 

You mean like: "Liminal lost, to master the game was too difficult."

Can you find one where the replacement changes the meaning?

I wasn't actually thinking about it too hard. I don't like using neopronouns for the most part. But as for things that change the meaning, I guess that is one.

I think the Iranian guy may need help finding it now.

@MissileSender