WatchNon-threaded

Forums » The Lounge » Read Thread

A place to sit back, hang out, and talk about anything you'd like.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

So whenever I ask a person following a religion, more specifically Christianity, questions about their deity, the person I'm talking to almost always gets upset. I remain as professional as I possibly can yet I always end up being yelled at, preached at, called a bigot, or told some other nonsense.

And that's not even when I ask about the deity's existence, which I try not to. They seem overly sensitive, or just extremely adamant. Then they begin to take quotes from their holy book which doesn't help the argument at all.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

...good luck with that. ;P

Trying to understand Autistic people.

7 years ago

What are you asking?

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

I basically call into question the actions of God and whether or not they can be qualified as "good" which in my opinion, they can't.

I sometimes try to figure out why it is they believe in their god and I never receive an answer past, "Because he is good."

They usually seem to shut off when they realize I only recently became an Atheist. Are you asking for the specific questions?

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

So... You tell them that God's actions are not 'good', they disagree, so they're touchy now?

Specific questions then.

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

If he states, "Thou shall not kill," why does he both kill children and commit genocide? Usually I refer to Elijah and the two bears where He summoned two bears to kill 42 boys because they mocked Elijah being bald.

Why is homosexuality considered a sin? If it's about being unable to have children, that's not an issue elusive to homosexuals.

So, if you do not worship Him, you are condemned to hellfire? So if I make it to Heaven, I can take solace in knowing that some of the people I love are burning in Hell.

If he is an all knowing being, why did he create this world knowing it would become chaotic? It's pretty cruel to 'test' someone knowing how that test will end.

My purpose is just to get some answers, I'm not trying to disprove anything to the person I'm addressing. I could of course be wrong in my questioning but that is why I want an answer.

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

1) Elisha, not Elijah. Also, punished (but we can ignore that for your sakes)

2) Cause God said so

3) Dunno

4) Time is a physical concept. God is outside the physical. To god, everything already happened. So, by definition, it had to happen first, not to mention the test is for our benifit. 

But I totes understand the religious guy getting annoyed at you, ha ha. I can feel the disdain in your posts, and I can't even see you. XD

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

I don't believe I am projecting any disdain. That seems to be a label placed on most Atheists whenever we question religion. I'm more in a state of confusion then feeling superior to any religious person. If my goal was to try to talk down a person for worshiping a religion, I would turn the conversation into questioning existence.

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Autistic-spectrum-disorder/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Thank you. 

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

...Really?

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

Yes, you claim to be autistic, so I assume you are. XD

I'm sorry D, but that's kinda the point. You don't notice social ques. 

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

They might have gotten touchy because you haven't read the bible before asking haha. Not here to give answers, but-

Murder is allowed in defense and in 'avengeance'. In Old Testament days, embarrassment was likened to murdering someone. As such, while the story of Elisha is discussed in length and probably expanded upon in other commentaries. Plus, as Aman said, he was punished for that.

Homosexuality is a sin because it's an abomination to The Lord, like it literally says in the Old Testament.

Etc.

And on. You probably seem ignorant to them because you don't appear to have read the entire bible yourself, and quite possibly sound condescending.

That said, they probably aren't super knowledgeable on their own scriptures either, but the main point that I should end the post on is that you sound like you're making fun of their core beliefs. And when someone sounds like their looking more to mock than to learn nobody would want to teach.

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

Sorry for messing up the Elijah/Elisha part, last time I wrote is as "Elisha" they told me it was wrong.

I thought the New Testament did away with the Old Testament. If that is the case, it shouldn't be a problem anymore. Then there is that belief that He creates you in his own image, which wouldn't make sense to me. If he creates you and you are a homosexual, then he creates you only to claim that your sexuality is now a sin.

Then I question the 10 Commandments vs the 9 Satanic sins. They usually dislike me questioning the commandments.

I will admit to ignorance, which is why I go to them to get better insight into how they think. I'm not trying to sound as if I'm mocking them, but as soon as the word Atheist comes out, they probably assume I am asking these questions to prove them wrong.

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

" Then there is that belief that He creates you in his own image, which wouldn't make sense to me. If he creates you and you are a homosexual, then he creates you only to claim that your sexuality is now a sin."

When they refer to that, they mean created in the image of God's qualities as a loving, caring person, regardless of sexuality.  It's not supposed to really, ACTUALLY mean that you're God's physical mirror.

Because sexuality is about SEX, God isn't 100% about SEX.

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

"I thought the New Testament did away with the Old Testament. If that is the case, it shouldn't be a problem anymore. Then there is that belief that He creates you in his own image, which wouldn't make sense to me. If he creates you and you are a homosexual, then he creates you only to claim that your sexuality is now a sin."

Bwhahahahaha, that's ridiculous. I'm lustful, so obviously god meant for me to act on those wishes. 

Dunno about christian stuff. 

"Sorry for messing up the Elijah/Elisha part, last time I wrote is as "Elisha" they told me it was wrong."

XD You ask people who don't know shit, and are surprised when they don't know shit. XD

"Then I question the 10 Commandments vs the 9 Satanic sins. They usually dislike me questioning the commandments."

No idea what those are. 

"I will admit to ignorance, which is why I go to them to get better insight into how they think. I'm not trying to sound as if I'm mocking them, but as soon as the word Atheist comes out, they probably assume I am asking these questions to prove them wrong."

But you are. XD I'm not trying to tell you that your religion is silly, I'm just asking you why it's so stupid! XD

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

Yeah, Bo mentioned that. I discussed it with one of the smartest guys I know (some 50 year old doctor who majored in religious studies) and he said that while Paul declared that you didn't need to follow the Old Testament, he noted that the words in there are still holy and should be taken into account. As such, some Christians follow both Testaments, some don't. Some follow portions of the Old. And some just think homosexuality is a disgusting deviancy, God or no God.

Either way, the New Testament didn't as much 'get away with the old', as much  as it declared that the New was more important.

From what I've heard, Christians have a variety of views on homosexuality. It really matters who you're asking.

The Commandments are the Commandments. Literal and succinct, there isn't much to be questioned :P

Tone of voice is very important, I've heard as well. But you're asking to get a better insight of what they think. You said that, keep in mind. You're not looking for answers, you're looking to see how these people, in your mind, are so primitive. You want to see how and why they think this way. That's condescending.

Anyhow, i'd recommend speaking to a pastor or priest about this rather than a random Christian, you don't seem to be talking to that knowledgeable people if they can't tell the difference between Elijah and Elisha haha.

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

Now I think you're starting to put words in my mouth. I want to learn how they think because I want to understand their religion more. I also want answers to some questions. Some of the smartest people I know are religious. I do not think Christians are primitive, otherwise I would not bother with them at all.

If I was actually trying to make myself seem more superior to them, I would question existence. As I stated before, I try not to do that.

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

Regardless, you're still kinda making yourself look condescending without even trying to.  And without a reasonably intelligent person to talk to, I doubt you'll get any purchase to your questions.

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

Not putting words in your mouth, just following a train of thought. Why do you want to understand them?

Would you honestly stop being an Athiest if they answered your questions?

Religious-man's thinking: If not,

GOTO %%hell%%

 OR

GOTO %%notworthdiscussingiftherewontbeaconclusion%%

Etc. If you want to learn more about Christianity, as a study. An intellectual observation, label your conversations as such. Read the bible and the commentaries on it. Asking under the pretense that you will be convinced is aggravating to some.

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

"Why do you want to understand them?"

Because as this was the religion I had been raised to believe in, as I got older I constantly questioned it to the point that I can't figure out how it is that people can devote their life to it.

"Would you honestly stop being an Atheist if they answered your questions?"

No. I'm not sure if the person I'm talking to is assuming that I am trying to regain my faith, and that may also be why they get frustrated?

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

More than that. Your goal isn't a benevolent one, you're asking just to know, not to understand. Any religious (or otherwise) conversation with someone who isn't interesting in change or a better lifestyle is pointless, and they probably realize that.

Additionally, as others noted, it probably seems like you're being condescending, for whatever reason.

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

"Your goal isn't a benevolent one..." I don't know what you mean by that.

I'll agree in saying that I want to know more than I want to understand, but I don't see how that is particularly a bad thing. Again, I've been raised to understand these things and I thought I did, but I now look back and realize that I followed the religion blindly.

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

I think what Tan is saying is why should he spend his time explaining his beliefs to you?  You're not going to feel any differently about god, and neither is Tan, so why bother?

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

I'm trying to speak for the people Danaos is accusing if belligerency. Replace 'Tan' wih 'generic religious dude Danaos talks to' or 'they' and yep purty much.

I try to avoid Judaism v. Other beliefs for a similar reason though, amplified on a public forum. Don't need or want to prove it to anybody, as well as nobody is looking for answers haha.

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago
I think I can answer the first part, but you should really ask Thinslayer. I don't think God is bound by the rules of the Bible.

I dunno the second. I am Christian, but pro gay-rights.

Again, I don't agree with the third paragraph. Can't answer that.

Dunno. Maybe somethings aren't meant to be known by us?

Trying to understand Danaos.

7 years ago

"If he states, "Thou shall not kill," why does he both kill children and commit genocide?"

...*sigh* I told myself I wasn't going to do this, but here we go: As you've already seen, someone made a comment about God existing outside of time. This means he knows everything about everything because He's seen it all. Who you are and who you could be and who you will be. It's already played out for Him.

Now ... about those people that were killed off during Bible times. Do you know what they were doing before they were killed off? Aside from many of them trying to straight up kill off Israel, or trying to convert them to paganism, I mean. Many of the civilizations Israel wiped out--and this is confirmed by secular historians and non-israelite accounts (Egypt, Syria, others I really can't be bothered to remember right this second,)--were very heavily into infant sacrifice.

Do you know what Molech worship is? It's where you heat up the metal hands of an idol until they are red hot, then you place a child in their open hands and let it writhe in agony as it burns to death. Jericho? Put live children into jars, sealed the jars, then sealed the jars in the walls. (I can't really imagine the sound of a baby wailing for its mother until it suffocates to death, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to.) Those practices kind of pissed God off, and according to Bible scholars, that's why God had their walls broken down and most of the people killed. So, if God likes babies, why did he kill off some in other cultures, right?

Well, that's just it. He knew who they were going to be. Israel didn't always wipe out those civilizations as instructed and on occasion, it came back to bite them in the ass, because the remaining children / women often swore revenge and gathered armies against Israel in the meantime--or became part of their culture and tried to get them into stuff like baby-burning. And it worked. Repeatedly. And Israel had a very long period of tug-of-war with itself about following their God vs following idols.  

... I guess what I'm essentially saying is, if you look at it from a theist's POV: Your concept of who is / is not deserving of punishment isn't the same as an omniscient being. Our view is a little too narrow from down here.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Haha.

Here's something to wrap your mind around. Mind you, this is not scripture (as far as I know), only what I was taught ceaselessly as a kid. Here it is:

Everything that God created is "good".

Alright, got that? Now, imagine this. Why are we allowed to do "evil" if that is the case? Most Christians say it is because God gave us free will, which means that God also gave us the capacity to do evil. Meaning that evil is a creation of God, meaning that it is good.

Therefore, by that logic, evil is good.

@Danaos

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Therefore, by that (warped) logic, evil is good.

ftfy

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

This basically sums up much of my confusion.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Oh, here's a piece of scripture. It might be slightly out of context, but here it goes.

"For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving," - 1 Timothy 4:4

Anyway, yeah, there are a lot of contradictions in Christian doctrine.
 

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

You're taking it out of context, yes, and you're also oversimplifying the logic. If you misinterpret, a lot of things sound like contradictions... but I confess, I'm not all that interested in debating religion. I've studied several, quite intently. I have my beliefs for my reasons.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Evil is a necessary evil to make us do good.

That's about all the thinking that needs to be done, I think.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

But, what about the evils that are inflicted on people, but not seen by us. Do they still serve to make us do good?

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

To make them do good?

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

To make who good? The people whom the evils are committed against or the person committing said evils? I guess, for clarification, I should say "things that are generally bad that most people can't see, like serial killings, torture, etc."

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

What I was usually told when something bad happened to me or someone I care for is that it will all work out because it was part of God's plan. Which didn't appeal to me because it is people I care for are suffering because apparently He wanted to 'make them strogner'.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Oh yes, the book of Job messed with me big time.

God allowed a man's entire family to be killed, just to prove a point. And, how does he repay it, by giving the guy more children than he had before. Yet, in several other places, it says that God cares about each individual human on a personal level.

Then, there was the story of a couple that was struck down for lying to God.

I asked someone why God would kill them for lying when he allows other people, who have done worse, a chance at redemption. She said that God was acting pragmatically and "doing what would bring the most people to him." I was so perplexed.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Everything create by god is good by god's standards. Just because it's "good" doesn't mean it can't be bad for us.

Parents always do things that are "good" for them to do but "bad" for children to do, same logic applies here.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

But, by that logic, why does God consider some things to be evil or "an abomination", if everything, by his standards, is good?

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

It's the question of "do we really have free will if the only 'choice' we have is sin?"

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Are you agreeing or did I miss something and you are pointing out? Or are you disagreeing with me completely?

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

I think the answer that is generally given for your question is that everything god creates is good and perfect, but man perverts it with his sinful nature.

Which therefore leads to the issue of "can we truly be said to have choice if our only choice is whether or not to sin?"

 

Which various people will answer in various ways. 

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Oh, okay.

On that topic, if God only wants people to do as he says and he is willing to punish them endlessly if they don't, then why would he give us free will in the first place? The answer I always get to this question is "well, because he wants to know that people are following him of their own free will." Well, yeah, I can see that, I guess, given that the alternative is, you know, endless torture and a daily pineapple up the ass (random Little Nicky reference).

Trying to understand SOME religious people,

7 years ago

specifically the ones who behave in this way in response to my questions. 

Because that's not all religious people. XD

Trying to understand SOME religious people,

7 years ago

I know that not all religious people talk like that, I thought I made it clear that this has been just the ones that I've encountered.

By the way, thank you for the subject fix. :P

Trying to understand SOME religious people,

7 years ago

"So whenever I ask a person following a religion,"

=All religious people you ask. XD

Trying to understand SOME religious people,

7 years ago

"more specifically Christianity"

It has only been Christians that I notice get more upset. I've also talked to Muslims and even a Satanist who surprised me by what they told me.

Still, I'm not trying to label all religious people as being like that.

Trying to understand SOME religious people,

7 years ago

Yeah, it's sorta an inherited thing from the Medieval predecessors and Puritan times.  Unlike Modern Satanism (who do it just for kicks) and Islam (where 80% of the world is tolerant of you and being otherwise equals death or ostracization), Christianity had some interesting ways of growing up...

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Well, I don't think I'm gonna complain to god if he decides to rain shit on everyone today.  He's been pretty lenient as far as 1990 years have gone.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

What is your goal with these conversations?

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

To grasp a better understanding of their religion and why they worship who they worship. I never actually ask them to prove to me his existence unless they begin to jump on my back about me not believing in him.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

I find belief in God to be fairly inexplicable as well, but in my experience, discussing the matter with believers doesn't help me understand why they believe -- and as you've found, it often results in them getting angry. Personally I've found 'live and let live' to be the better approach.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

In my experience a lot of "new" atheists in particular tend to come across as condecending, in an "oh, you believe in god? Yeah, I used to do that but now I'm much wiser and better than you" sort of way ( see here and  Ricky Gervais). I don't know whether you do that, but it might be the problem.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Yeah I saw that thread. It made me a bit hesitant to post this one.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

You're just really, really unlucky. xD

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

You're telling me.

I had asked this man who has a doctorate on the subject (something like that) about the story of Adam and Eve, but before I could really get into my question, he proceeded to basically rip pages out of the Bible and stuff it down my throat. I didn't want to interrupt him, though I'll admit I learned something new.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

People like that are really, really annoying. You don't want to appear disinterest, but at the same time you don't want to offend them by interrupting them. So what you do is that you endure, and try to act like you're interested, but at the same time you're not, so your eyes are drooping off the screen, and eventually they fall out, but you don't notice because you're so disinterested that you're probably off in laa-laa land daydreaming about your soul mate that you will meet in approximately 4 and a half hours. 

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago
kill them :D

About 80% of all people in first world countries are very unintelligent, whether they are religious or not. So killing them will thin the heard and fix all of our problems. But we need them to do manual labor in factories so the more intelligent people can enjoy life :3

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

You should watch thunderfoots video where he interviewed the Westboro Baptist Church, it was hilarious.

Anywho, some people simply are not going to let you speak or listen to you. Just remain calm and if they don't want a discussion, respect that and move on.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Those people represent Christianity in one of it's worst extremes.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

I guess you either meet all the wrong people or have some really bad questioning skills :P I'm not religious myself, but I am interested in religions and I've talked to quite a lot of religious people, both out of personal interest and while doing fieldwork for my study (anthropology ftw!)..

In my experience religion is kind of a touchy subject depending on the people you speak to, It is often the case that (very) religious persons build up their lives and their identities around their religion (i.e. "I am a Christian and thus I do this and that"), if you challenge the reality or the 'trueness' of religion, that would essentially mean that you try to prove their whole live has been a sham. This, of course, doesn't mean that this is the case with all religious persons, but it could explain why you have had some negative experiences. I'd recommend in such a case that you don't ask specific questions immediately, but ask them about their religious views first and then ask more specific questions. It is more likely that once you've got a person talking, he/she will keep talking to you, and by letting them speak first you show that you are really interested and aren't just trying to prove that religion is nonsense. In my experience, that approach will usually work if you want to talk about all kinds of touchy subjects.

On the other hand, there are also people who don't want to listen to anything that smells a little bit like critique (this isn't, of course, solely the case with religious people, but you get my point) and then it'll probably be useless to continue talking further. Though it can sometimes be quite interesting to keep asking hard questions, from a purely scientific interest of course...

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

I'm probably the latter. My social life is a story of awkward. I can understand this.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

I dunno, it seems pretty obvious Danaos isn't nearly as innocent with his questions as he is trying to lead everyone to believe. It seems more like he's questioning their beliefs and god rather than just asking questions about them.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

It's analogous to a religious person asking you "Why are you an atheist?  It clearly states here in my scriptures that God exists, and those who don't believe in him are destined for hell."

The types of questions you're asking don't sound like "I am genuinely curious about your faith," they sound like "I am looking for a fight.  These are things I find stupid, irrational, and pointless about your faith."

More than a few atheists talk about how irritating it is when religious people try to push their religion on them, while simultaneously claiming they don't get why religious people get so upset when they try to ask them why they have their beliefs.

 

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Yeah, I actually think atheist like that are worse than religious folk like that. At least at their core religious folk think what they're doing is a good thing. Atheist are just doing it for the sake of doing it.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Exactly.  Those kind of atheists come off as bitter people with joyless lives who just want everyone else to be as unhappy as they are.  It's counterproductive when the religious people can look at you and say "God must be real, because just like it says in my scriptures, people without him in their lives are miserable jerks."

 

 

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

"hose kind of atheists come off as bitter people with joyless lives who just want everyone else to be as unhappy as they are." - no......just no.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

I'm not saying atheists are bitter people with joyless lives. 

I'm saying when a proclaimed atheist makes a big deal out of things like preventing anyone from celebrating a potentially religiously affiliated holiday, it undermines their credibility.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

(Especially sine you are one. XD)

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Did I mention that somewhere? 

 

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Yeah, a while ago, I think it was in bhb. XD

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

And we get along fine, right? XD

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Nah, I secretly want to murder you

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

I'm pretty sure your religion doesn't allow that.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

...maybe

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

If Sehaniel is Arhiest to the point that he idolizes himself, you can kill him Aman.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

But, wouldn't the law against murder supercede the "destruction of idols" thing? I don't know, of course, which is why I'm asking.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

You should probably shut up. 

Big and smart people are talking.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

"Big and smart people are talking."

Where did they go? All I can see here is you.

 

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

It didn't stop Moses. XD

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Fair enough xD

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

That is honestly not my intention. I'll admit I'm not good with talking to people, but I'm not trying to mock the person or their religion.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Ok, I respect that it's not your intent.  You asked why the religious people get mad, and that's prolly why. 

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

When dealing with things such as a persons faith you have to be really careful with how you approach them and how you begin that conversation. You have to be even more cautious approaching that topic as an atheist as many religious people have a very strong dislike of atheists, some worse than others depending on were you live in the world. If you are truly interested in learning more about why religious people believe what they do i would recommend asking either a religious official that you know and trust, as you said you used to be a Christian i would assume that you went to church growing up so perhaps you can ask the pastor or priest. If that doesn't work for you theres always the internet and there are lodes of intellectual debates on this topic if you know were to look for them.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

I havent read the whole thread. But I can imagine, if I spent 20 minutes second guessing your whole life, playing devils advocate to EVERY answer you give, youd get upset too. learn to accept people for their beliefs even if you dont believe them. That's called being an adult. 

nate

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

I don't believe his intent was to change a persons way of thinking i think he was just trying to learn more about the religion itself

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

From what I get, he wants to believe, but he honestly can't wrap his head around the religion. I went through a phase like that. Of course, he's denied that several times, so maybe not.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

I accept anyone regardless of their belief and way of life. I have friends of who are Christians, Muslims, Satanists, Jews, etc. I just want to know more about said religions.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

But, you said you were, at one time, a Christian, right?

Also, have you ever met a witch before? ^_^ I have. She was a pretty nice lady, but she always made jokes at my expense and told me that my Sean Connery impressions were interfering with her James Bond fantasies. But, that's beside the point.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

I've met a Wicca when I was in a ROTC camp. He was a cool guy.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Oh, okay. Why were you at ROTC camp. I thought you were still in High School.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

ROTC is part of the High School program should you choose to take it.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Hmm...I thought it was just a collegiate thing. All we had at my High school were computers, ag, home ec, and business.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Definitely sounds like your interest in this topic is for academic purposes and my recommendation for you would be to study religion away from the actual faith itself the answers you are seeking can be found online or in plenty of books therefor there is no need for you to be questioning peoples faith because in all honesty most of the people you are going to ask are not going to be any help as they probably don't know why they follow the religion they do either besides being born into it and the ones who do know what they are talking about are usually to defensive about it to even try to discuss it with an atheist.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Of course, I've met some lenient pastors who enjoyed discussing that kind of stuff, even with atheists.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Is it weird that I like Old Testament God better than New Testament God?

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

nah just means you prefer Jewish people to catholics lol

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Makes sense. Old Testament God is a badass, formless dictator of the universe.

New Testament god is a bearded hippy dude.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

"Let there be light."

He just commanded nothing to become something, and something it became. 

What.

The.

Fuck.

Man.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

That's arguable, but, for the most part, I think a lot of people would agree.

 

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

What part's arguable?  Old Testament God killed the entire world because he thought it was crappy, dropped meteors on a city while turning any person who had a clinging for said city into a pillar of salt, gave a man crazy strength through hair, and created the universe by saying : " Welp, I want this here." and then it was there.

New Testament was all "LOVE ONE ANOTHER FOR GOD'S SAKE JUST STOP BEING SO DOUCHEY TO EACH OH GOD PLEASE DONT RUIN THE DIGNITY OF MANKIND."  And then that caught on for the next hundreds of years into violence via Inquisition, Crusades, witch-hunts, heretic-hunts, etc...

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Okay, one more thing and I'm out of this thread.

@Danaos @jamescoker1226

read "Hell is the Absence of God" by Ted Chiang.  (There should be a free pdf available if you google it.)

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Why was I tagged, might I ask, if you have time?

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Cause we were talking about good and evil and god and I thought you might find the story interesting.  No sinister motives. 

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Okie dokie, didn't mean to sound defensive.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Atheists always have sinister motives. 

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Oh yeah, since Seth did this, I will too-

@Danaos @Jamescoker1226

If you're really looking for answers, read the entire Talmud, and you'll have the answers you seek about god and miscellaneous biblical stories. You can do it! yes

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Again, why the fuck am I getting tagged?

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Because you want answers!

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Okay, but to be fair, I've had The Bible read to me for my entire childhood. I didn't memorize the whole thing (just a few minor books from the NT). I wasn't really looking for irrefutable answers (I don't believe that any can be found, even in The Bible), just discussion, mainly.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Here Danaos (or anyone else), I think these tracts can explain ALL your questions about religion.

Salvation!

And here are some about a variety of topics to get you started!

The Last Generation (My favorite!)

Doom Town

Men of Peace

The Death Cookie

Hi There

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

May I ask why they are all comics? o-o

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Because it's the best way to get even a heathen like me to read the holy word!

Jack Chick is a fucking genius. Seriously, if the guy wasn't writing fundamentalist propaganda he should've been writing horror.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

It's beautiful

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Can't believe I forgot the most famous one.

Dark Dungeons

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

I am going to use this for everything

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Sounds like a more mediocre thing with hardcore gamers in China.

 

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Have you seen the one where a hired killer goes to heaven, while a law-abiding marshal goes to hell? 

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Jack is great for doing those sort of things in his tracts.

He had one story where the guy made a deal with the devil and lived a life of luxury then at the last moment on his deathbed the guy accepted Jesus as his savior and got to go to heaven.

Meanwhile his cousin did a bunch of good deeds, but went to hell because as the old saying goes "Good works don't get you into heaven, only Jesus can."

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

The bible was written by man, who is inherently fallible (more often than not). And as far as those people who get red in the face, and start foaming at the mouth, when they start quoting scripture, I believe there was something wrong with them to begin with and that is what drove them to religion in the first place. It's not just in Christianity, either, but they are the ones who attempt to accost me (being smack-dab in the 'Bible Belt').

Anyhoo...[sigh]If you want the strait dope on...anything (not just religion), you have to read, Read, READ. And not from just one book, but from all of them. I mean GOD is everywhere, not just in The Good Book.

A better-late-than-never answer to The Question.

.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Ah, but man is fallible, so what's the point of reading, because... hey, man probably screwed up everything that was written, right?

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Everything is screwed up. Ergo this site. Why else would we all be here, right? Not only that, but English is a very imprecise language, quantified by inflection and body language.

I'm just glad that the written language has led us to this insanity... :P

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

I'm just sick of Jehovah Witness's knocking at my door in the morning, at least you can trick the Mormons into helping you move a couch or something.

 

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

xD ... Have you actually done that?

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

A friend of my dad's invited a female JW into the house because he thought she was hot.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

... ok?

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

No, it was hilarious, because he was supposedly just going 'mm-hmm' to everything she said while simultaneously checking her out.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Lol, I wish. Never actually had the Mormons knocking on my door, I've just seen them riding their bikes through the neighborhood.

However, I did know a guy who did though. He had a bunch of furniture he had to move in and out of the house and while he was in the process of doing this task, some Mormons happened to come by and he told them he would listen to everything they had to say, if they moved all the furniture. I guess they were desperate for converts so they agreed.

After letting them do most of the work, he made an excuse that he suddenly realized he had to meet someone and just took off saying he'd have to hear them some other time. Never saw them again.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

LOL... xD I can't decide whether I find that terrible or awesome.

Either way, though, it's hilarious. I have a buddy who's a Mormon, (albeit in Denmark) but I will admit, JW and Mormon door-to-door evangelists annoy me.  >_> I've tried to make them leave politely by saying stuff like "I have a church already." "I already believe in God." "Oh, yeah, Jesus. Yep, we're buds already, no preaching required. Kthxbye." ... but surprisingly that isn't actually any more effective then telling them you don't agree with them and don't want to.

Guess I should just have them feng-shui my living room instead.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Now I did troll some Christian women who were looking for converts. I was working for my dad and some of the crew at the time.

We were unloading a truck full of equipment into his house and two women were trying to get us to join their church. One guy Chet, didn't want to hear it at all. My dad and the other guy Greg politely declined and then I mentioned I was already a minister at another church.

Technically I wasn't lying. Since I do have a card that establishes me as a Minister of the Church of the Sub-Genius. (With a personal congregation of one.)

They started asking me questions and I started flipping back and forth to being genuinely interested in scripture to outright trolling.

Finally I told them that Chet didn't want to hear about being Christian, because he was gay and it caused him to hate God and that I tried to get through to him, but that he was just too involved in his decadent lifestyle and that maybe they could succeed where I didn't.

Chet of course by this point started protesting loudly calling me a motherfucker and everything else which of course only made my point stronger that he was a sinner. My dad and Greg were trying their hardest not to laugh. (And failing)

It wasn't long before the older woman caught on that I MIGHT not be telling the entire truth and was trying to get out of there, but the younger one started thinking it was really really funny.

I managed to keep them a little longer since my goal was to see how long I could keep it going, but eventually the older woman left and the younger followed her still giggling about everything.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Is there any way to get them to stop coming?

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

I can think of a couple methods...

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Such as?

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Convince them you're a satanist. I knew someone who did that. It worked apparently, but I don't know how advisable that really is or how they did it.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

I've thought of that, but the Satanists that I've met aren't even what people make them out to be. Some ironically don't even worship Satan.

Should I just walk out with blood coming out of my mouth while behind me is a pentagram with candles and other people speaking in tongues?

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Well, I'm pretty sure most hardcore JW don't have the same understanding that you do.

And, oh, Pokemon. You can't forget Pokemon, because it is so obviously satanic. You know, I've actually read an essay by a guy claiming that. So, just put a few Pikachu plushies in the background and you should be fine.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

A good friend of mine tells this story...His brother-in-law was the Police Chief in L.A., back in the 60's. One day, he was out watering his lawn, and a couple of church women showed up at his house once again. He was always debating them. Anyway, this day, they started preaching Saddam and Gomorrah and he just let them rattle on. He finally took all he could, looked 'em in the eye, and said "Don't knock it till you've tried it." ---That was the last time they dropped in--- xD

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

I don't get it. indecision

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Pop a mentos into your mouth and drink some coke. Then, while your mouth is foaming, make some weird noises and walk towards them. You can also try to turn your head 360 degrees for that real, authentic possessed look. They won't bother you again after that. (Or you'll get a visit from your friendly neigbourhood exorcist, but at least you'll be rid of the previous JW's.)

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

For some reason, Ned Flanders popped into my head when you said "friendly neighborhood exorcist".
 

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago
Just hope they're not gamers, and think you're a zombie. HaHa

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Oh yeah, that is so annoying right! I always mistake people for zombies!

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

That sounds like a fun idea. But I don't want an exorcist and a mob of Christians beating down my door.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

You could try turning the tables on them and declare that they're not following God the right way and start ranting about how they're going to be the ones going to hell.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Or pretend you're from a different religion and try to convince them to join yours instead.

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

Back in high school, this crotchety old neighbor we had, had a kid (teenager) in tears from doing just that. The kid was pleading with him to help him become a better Christian. I felt kind of sorry for the guy. :(

Trying to understand religious people.

7 years ago

In that case, it sounds right up my alley. XD