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Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Commended by mizal on 4/13/2021 11:35:11 PM
This is not a really big thing but I think it would be fun on saying It in here anyway, (EDIT: Lmao while I was writing this I got banned from the subreddit soo I'm going to copy-paste the answers since I'm not with my cellphone and I'm afraid of it getting nuked I'm sorry for the wall text)

So earlier today there was a post asking about the criteria on posts being randomly removed at the subreddit and given no explanation on why it happened,( For some context, some posts containing HG content were removed for no reason despite HG being like 40% of the subreddit content and the books of HG being way much more talked about than the actual COG books) he also asked if it's just nitpicking to "whatever Jason doesn't as he would remove" (Btw here is the dude post https://www.reddit.com/r/choiceofgames/comments/mq9ekb/what_is_the_actual_criteria_for_your_posts_being/)


And here is my answer that got me banned :

If it was HG that is probrably the cause, Jason wants you to post it on the r/hostedgames subreddit (despite it being dead and this one being more alive and having more topics about HG than COG in my opinion) thing is that he doesn't say that to people and there is no rules about it soo its just removed most of the time with no explanation

However, Jason DOES remove things that he doesn't like, two examples are "Price of Freedom, Innocence Lost" ( an Book that was initially to be posted in COG but due to an argument between Jason and The Author, hell Jason even made an whole thread to try and denounce the things she did and say she is an example of "Bad Forum Citizen", The book ended up not being posted in COG and went to CYS) And the aftermath of "Suicidal Sammy" (an author that said a bunch of shit like saying of the COG forum mods to do an rimjob on the author of Samurai of Hyuga and he wrote the VERY controversial story of Mass Mother Massacre that had an graphic Rape scene that the MC and by default You could do, That Basically ended his own popularity and his responses were pretty much awfull "i was framed" moves, it was allmost looking it was on purpose to kill his popularity at the COG forums but thats another story)

Price of Freedom : I can't explain it very well since the author allready did that, here is the link for the explanation : https://chooseyourstory.com/forums/the-lounge/message/25154 (includes some other people's POV's Too)

(Also here is the book if you are curious : https://chooseyourstory.com/story/the-price-of-freedom~3a-innocence-lost, Warning It contains extreme violence, strong language and distressing themes, including; Slavery, Child Abuse, Physical and Emotional Abuse, Sexual Abuse, Racism and Sexism)

Suicidal Sammy Example : A person asked Jason "what are exactly the guidelines for HG/COG since the staff knew that MMM story was offensive but the MMM thread was still allowed to stay up", he later asked if it is company policy to allow the advertisements which the company would be hesitant or outright refuse due to author's standing" after he asks for the clarification and Jason closed the thread and deleted the post due to being called out on his hypocrisy

( what the user said : http://imgur.com/jfktQPc)

Also after that I also showed the Hateful Link and gave more examples of "When COG fucked up"
!"

OP Reaction : I considered that, but again, if that's the case he doesn't apply that rule equally. Literally just seven hours ago someone posted about The Parent Simulator. It's a game under HG's label, but it's still up. Not to mention the posts about The Wayhaven Chronicles and Samurai of Hyuga that pop up fairly regularly.

Thanks for the other posts. Looks like I'll just have to put up and shut up.

Some other Reactions :

"Who knew even Choice of Games would have some form of drama, Jesus",

"Someone should do a write up on r/hobbydrama lmao"

"Gotta love COG mods"

"Well after seeing the drama with Avery Moore, I'm quite afraid. You know after reading some great books I thought I should write a book too. But after what I saw I'm afraid that Jason will ban me too, or he won't back me up if someone plagiarized my content. It took me some time to understand the code(I'm not good at coding) but I really wanted to present my ideas. I even wrote some 10k words, since I got email from Mary in December. It was more of a dream than a hobby. I know 10k words are not a lot but I'm a student. I might as well just write a real novel and publish it to some company.( I was really sad when I saw what happened to Avery Moore). Also someone deleted my posed saying that I can't post it here because it has an hg tittle in it. I post it here because no one at hg subreddit replies."

"Sheesh, what a mess. I'm learning all sorts of new things from this thread 0_0"

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

Oh yeah, someone called attention to that just today actually. Funny stuff, though I think all the recent Kiel excavation has grabbed the spotlight.

I'm not surprised you got banned though.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Yeah, I was already expecting that, but not on being banned today since his last known activity was like 3 days ago before this post happened soo I thought I was going to be fine for at least a day, he really just came in like a bloodhound.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

This is why you do this, as soon as possible...

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
I didn't read all that, but getting banned by Jason sounds like a good day of work to me.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

Lol.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Oh, people there finally noticed that?

Always wondered what the point was of a subreddit run by the same guy that runs the forum and the company and enforces the same rules. Although he may find he has much less control there than he'd like, anyone can just make an alternate sub that has everything the official one does, and people will post there instead if they find it less stifling.

...inb4 they start getting banned from CoG for doing that. Because that's already happening over the one the Tumblr people set up.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
There's actually a separate creator run IF sub made by Tumblr exodus people:
https://www.reddit.com/r/interactivefictions/
So if that ever starts bothering Jason he might start banning, some of them still want to publish to HG

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
This feels like a dumb question but I don't keep up with the other IF sites, what is Hosted Games?

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

It's the "separate but equal" policy in CoG if a game doesn't quite match the requirements of the "official CoG" games, but it's still allowable under slightly less restrictive rules.

Basically HG authors are second class citizens.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Its basically the publisher where you aren't exaclty hired by COG but they will still publish and give you some of theproffits

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
And then not let their reddit be sullied by your presence.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Honestly, there is no real reason to segregate them too, literally, 40% of the posts in there are HG-related and not COG, in fact in the polls there was a much bigger approval to HG than COG too.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Call me crazy but I'm getting an impression that this little fact pisses Jason off because this is not what he intended - COG was supposed to be the beloved child compromised of "good" authors (with some more company control and oversight) and HG for anyone else.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Yeah, I also think that everyone's loves authors are under HG and everyone praises Fallen Hero, Wayhaeven Chronicles, Sabres/Lords of Infinity but nobody talks about COG books, and considering the Last Cog book that was released (and that I remember) was Kidnapped! and that one didn't do very well (its 3,8 in ratings at the play store last time I checked) that probably pisses off Jason.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
A word about HG success and its consequences for IF games:
Women who consume romance are huge demographic, and I don't think Jason ever realized this was on of the easiest markets to tap into, because they already eat thousands of books of more or less the same good feeling warm fuzzy romance stuff. A hefty amount of them will also follow each other and form readership circles so they can find another romance crack faster, whatever through tumblr, twitter, pinterest etc. This is what led to spawn of hundreds of somewhat romance-focused WiPs, after the success of Wayhaven and Fallen Hero.

And that's why there's "Choice of Heart" now but, it's a little harder to access those books because Jason seems super intent on fragmenting his company and I'm not even entirely sure what he's going for with the main one - with COG. What's the objective here, is it "quality stories", is he looking for IF LoTR? Why keep adding versions of the same company, what's going on?

Inevitably the wokeness shrunk the COG readership, especially male readership and men aren't huge consumers of fiction to begin with so maybe it's more accurate to say it failed to attract readership it could've had. And so HG got all the fanbases with none of the benefits, and the authors who will get a sizeable fanbase à la Wayhaven will eventually leave COG behind.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Yeah, I agree, COG is really having trouble attracting readership even though they had a lot of chances to get it.

Also just a random personal opinion but it seems that after Fallen Hero and Wayheaven became popular, COG ended up having their fantasy stories and other genres in general with no focus on romance like WH and FH really seem to have fallen down on quality, and it almost seems that no one really talks about the other genres in their forums (not counting WIP's)

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

From what I understand, the main thing that seperates the CoGs from the HGs (beside CoG authors getting paid more) is that they need to follow a REALLY restricted structure. Like, Jason has an idea in his head for how he wants a CoG game to be formatted and he wants ALL the games to be formatted in that exact same way, which probably has something to do with why HGs tend to be more popular.

When I entered The Lawless Ones into the CoG contest, I had a long list of things that I'd need to change in order for my game to be considered for the CoG label. One of the things was, "The author gets the option to choose what gender they are too soon. They should choose their gender later on in the game" ... I really did not get it. If the character has the option to choose what there gender is, then shouldn't they get that option relatively early? ... But nope. Apparently this goes against the CoG vision.

I should really post the list sometime, just for the lols. If I remember correctly, about 90% of the problems concerned "bad gender politics"... Which I think is some kind of fancy SJW word for sexism. But it was literally EVERYTHING that distinguished any kind of distinction between male and female.

For example, I programed a part in the game where if the player was a female someone called them a bitch and if they were a male, someone called them a bastard. Apparently, calling a man a bastard is fine, but calling a woman a bitch is "bad gender politics". Calling a woman an old hag, also "bad gender politics". Mentioning a woman is really skinny, somehow "bad gender politics". And my personal favourite, suggesting that a female wolf would consider the arrival of a new male wolf as a potential mate... "Bad gender politics." :p

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

Also, from what I've seen, Hosted Games tend to have a much simpler plot, that can be summed up pretty easily, whereas Choice of Games have a tendancy to add a lot of weird tinsel and baubles that don't really need to be there. Like:

Hosted Game Plot: A professional thief tries to break his best friend out of jail.

GoG Plot: Oh, no, no, far too simple. How about... A professional thief tries to break his best friend out of jail... But he's also a werewolf!

... That kind of thing. :p

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
I'm disturbed you were writing about sexual wolves, but I'd like to read that list.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Once upon a time, I wanted to be published under COG because I thought their terms were better and it would get me further. Silly me.
That was before the rise of Hosted Games that came in series though.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

I stopped going there because their moderation team got someone who was overtly zealous and they then threw in their weight behind Anita Sarrko, back when she was brewing her usual brew of drama.

I agree COG's offerings pale in contrast to the other offerings. IMO they flunked their access to Steam as well.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

Oh hey I remember you being one of the earlier members that posted on the forums over there.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
The only COG book that I really remember replaying again and again was Tally Ho and Jolly Good. (Solid games in their own right).

Also maybe Night Road but not to the extent of Tally Ho and its sequel.

I just... can't find that delicious *hook* in CoG games. Nothing there is pushing me to think out of the box, customize my character's personality, and really connect with the characters like Fallen Hero, Wayhaven, and Samurai of Hyuga, and the Infinity Saga do.

Not to mention it's awesome to interact with authors and fellow fans in the WIP forums. Also not a thing you can do with COG.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Tally Ho and the sequel are really really amazingly good, they're the only CoG game I gave everyone here blanket permission to buy free of personal internalized shame.

They just have a sense of *fun* and energy it seems like others lack, and the amount of actual branching is great since it feels more like an actual choice based game that way. From what I've seen (usually second hand tbf since it's not like I buy them. Other than Gower's stuff, the first part of Rebels was the last time I got mildly interested in a CoG game) there's honestly not much reason to replay most CoG games anyway because the plots don't actually change much, no matter how much slightly different text they'll substitute in for you as a retard for your "choices".

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
....that was supposed to be "reward for your choices", but I'm not fixing it. I trust my phone's judgement on this one.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Well, I've been following CoG for years but lately their offerings seem really stale. The Vampire Masquerade games are the only ones I'm looking forward to for this year.

So much more good stuff on Hosted for some reason. Back in the day, I avoided Hosted games because most of them were riddled with poor grammar, bad plots, and amateurish writing (things I'm not paying a dime for), but they've seriously overtaken CoG in my book these days.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Yeah, right now people are creaming themselves so much over Mage Reborn it has a serious potential of reaching Wayhaven's status and maybe even exceeding it. Even I look forward to its release despite growing resentment towards its fanbase.

Another good WIP on my radar is Advanced Studies in Pattern Magic - it's surprisingly accurate in its depiction of academia. I haven't thought of any official CoG title in months.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

The Mage's Adventure is going to be amaaaaaazing, my favorite game ever by my favorite author ever. <3 Samuel Young. I've been listening to an audio version all morning while I do lines of coke off the supple ass of my Columbian boy-slave. Highly recommended if you can afford it. And the story too!

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

Amusingly someone told us recently that Suicidal Sammy released a new hosted game over there and given that he had his own axe to grind with COG (Making alts to shill his game, saying some mod was rimming Jason, bitching about the Samurai game, etc) it's hilarious he went crawling back to CoG AGAIN. (Despite still being banned on the forums there, lol)

Though not too surprising of course.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
He's not banned forever, he is suspended to 2022 and I guess that makes it... a 3-year ban? But the Stardust tumblrinas were banned for a century. Odd.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

He made money for Jason and he's known to constantly rage quit there then go crawling back like a worm, so he's more "useful" from a company standpoint.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

OMG, my heart! ^_^

Seriously, I think it's super amazing that people are still sticking up for me like 2 years after the event. Honestly, I thought that everybody besides people on CYS had forgotten that I existed by now. That's really made my day.

Also lol that pretty much every comment in the thread is just people complaining about how terrible the moderation is. ^_^

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Don't worry, I didn't know you existed

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

That's okay. I don't expect you to notice a lowly amateur like myself, since you're the super famous author of Tinstar and everything. :p

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Minor Update of this situation: The Drama actually did something for a change (kinda), After the post (and the unwanted attention that Jason didn't want) he actually did something and added some rules that were pretty much copy-pasted from the forum and said that its only COG content, but the real main change is that he actually added so,

He also added 3 more mods in the HG subreddit instead of being just him (but don't get your hopes up, they are COG writers and one of them is Dan Fabulich aka the Co-Founder of COG even though he is not active or whatsoever and his last comment and post were like a year ago)


It's in fact 4 but the fourth one is really sketchy and I assume it's Jason Alt because it was added as a mod for both subreddits and last time the account was active it was 8 months ago and basically didn't do anything (in fact her only known activity was only one comment 8 months ago on r/movies), also her username is Rose-Courts, just saying it because it might ring a bell for someone or something.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

Lol that he added fucking Dan given that's just his meat puppet he has a hand up its ass.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Dan does not strike me as the reddit "type".

Neither does Jason really, I don't think he gets how different it is from lording over the personal fiefdom that is a forum.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Honestly? Jason is really just at home in Reddit, The website doesn't do shit for abusive moderators most of the time and they have pretty much can ban everyone they want in the subreddits they are moderating, and since he acts all woke then he pretty much follows what Reddit wants you to follow soo he is pretty much in his narcissistic paradise.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

Rose Court isn't an alt of Jason's. She used to go under another name that has plenty activity. And she is now a mod on CoG, I think. 

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

Oh my God, I watched that Adam Toledo video seven times and I can't stop CUMMING!!!

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

Wait, shit I don't think I meant to post that here. Where am I?

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

Now I can't edit, FUCK.

 

 

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

look ..obviously I'm not the real Jason, my account was hacked.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

I mean....I hacked his account. I'm not the real Jason. Whoever he is, I don't even know him.

 

Pog or something. See, it's not me.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

*not him

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

Wait wtf, why is everyone here talking shit about me?

 

That's it, you're all banned!!!!

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

Glad to see the owner of CoG visiting and enjoying our freedom of expression policy here at CYS.

Where's Dan at? Busily doing your bidding no doubt, or perhaps also partaking in degenerate activities? Not that the two are mutually exclusive of course.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

Well I thought I was texting Dan a few minutes ago, but instead I'm on a public forum full of all these toxic and problematic people. I believe I've been pranked. 

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

I like how Jason is getting voted down on his own Reddit. Lol.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Lmao, what a cunt.

For a moment I was honestly surprised he was shitting on HG so blatantly, but then I remembered that it's Jason.

So yeah, he'll publish them and take the sales money, but he doesn't want to be associated with them by ignorant morons (his customers), and he certainly doesn't want to swim in a non segregated pool.

For real though, this is such a weird hill to die on.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

“Intentionally keep the bar low.”

Yep, just like I always said from day one, HG has always been second class citizenhood as far as the treatment.

“Well I is sorry massa! You be da bossman and we be good little niggers!” - What Jason wants to hear from his audience

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Those HGers just got so uppity when they started making more money than the official line, someone needs to put them back in their place.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Bring out the whips!

On a serious note though, It's actually embarrassing to watch someone act like this. He's blatantly shitting on his money-makers. How insensitive do you have to be to shit on a story someone poured their love and effort in writing while making money out of it? That's so low.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
jfc

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Jason has set such a low bar for his own faggotry the most shocking part was some HG author earning 130k a year in donations.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Intentionally keep the bar low is... just weird wording. The most popular and best-written games under either the COG and HG labels are Wayhaven, Fallen Hero, the Samurai series, and the Infinity Saga. All of which are (IIRC) under the HG label.

Granted, there are tons of crap under the HG label too which just annoys me when I want to read something new and *good* - not lame teenage fanfic where I can make "choices". Why not make good writing and good grammar a requirement for HG?

CoG has harder publishing standards may be true. I just don't know if those are the standards people *actually* care about.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
"Keeping the bar low" is fine in theory. I mean, meeting some level of quality standards isn't exactly difficult so I don't personally see a point to publishing actual crap when there's so many quality authors available, but whatever, they can publish what they want. (I think the real issue is that someone on staff would have to actually enjoy reading and care enough to pay attention to the HG stuff before shoveling it out there.)

But this has nothing to do with segregating the reddit. What is really lost by just letting fans of the games talk about the games on an off-site discussion place? And he is REALLY dialing up the condescending passive aggression there for no damn reason at all, lol.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
What's the purpose of creating a subreddit run by the exact same mods as the forum? If it's run by the same guys, then just idk use the forum?

Heck, not even the forum segregates HG and COG. What on earth does a freaking subreddit have to do with business practices anyway?

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

"I appreciate that you think that, but you are wrong." ... Lol.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

Well Jason's inept handling of everything as usual has allowed this particular rebellion to spread to other reddits.

Great success!

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Conan had it all wrong. What is best in life? To see your enemies just doing themselves in in a hilarious and highly public manner, while you never even have to get off the couch.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

Here's a new thread I found. Some rando ranting about CoG authors who go ages without releasing any new content. Jason's response:

"(Unfortunately) getting paid far too little for it." ... ... ... Agreed. ^_^

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Coming from that avatar pic, he just sounds like a virtue-signaling snot-nosed brat lol!

Of course he's right in this case; just that he needs to somehow remove the squirting dick someone drew on his forehead, so you can focus on what he's saying and not the tard himself.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
The OP is whiny but makes a little more sense if authors spending a bunch of time marketing themselves on twitter or taking in buckets on patreon or whatever is actually a thing over there.

Jason just has an uncanny way of phrasing things like a belligerent asshole no matter what though. And I saw someone there dug up his old "opinions are VIOLENCE" chestnut. (Opinions about writing text games that disagree with his in particular.)

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

I just find it funny that he's publicly announcing that he pays his writers way too little. :p

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago

He just fucked himself (again) with that post. Lol.

Seriously at this point he's done more damage to his own reputation by being himself.

Should have had Dan spin doctor for him, still would have been bullshit but it would have been not so self destructive bullshit and he could have just blamed any "misunderstandings" on Dan.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
Oh damn, I hope someone will do something about writers publishing under CoG earning too little. Someone responsible for paying them maybe...

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
He'd like to, really, but such decisions are just completely out of his hands. This one goes all the way up to the top.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
He seriously need a PR team. If he has one right now he should fire them because they're useless as fuck.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

one month ago
PR specialists are only useful if you listen to them and Jason seems like that type of boss.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago

Jason continuing to dig a deeper hole.

Lol.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago

He should just stay off the internet while he's on his period. 

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago
he's definitely getting off to this.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago
Series like Wayhaven and Fallen Hero make the company tons of money, yes?

So if you want to earn more money, why not do something to attract authors who write and code like they can? Why not increase HG publishing standards so customers actually trust what they're buying? Why not market successful games (regardless if they're on HG or CoG) even more so more people can play and pay for them?

It's just sad that people have to ask "Best WIP"/"Best Cog/HG Game of 20XX" again and again because we have no idea which games are actually worth it.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago
That's crazy, what kind of company puts more support behind a popular product?

He's been doing this for ten years, thank you.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago
I just seriously do not understand the business model.

I get the mission of creating a platform for newbies to try out coding and writing their own stories, but when you have Hosted Games that are arguably 10x better and more popular than Choice of Games, then there's something missing there.

Which begs the question:Why are Wayhaven/Fallen Hero/Samurai of Hyuga/Infinity Series so lauded despite being in the lower tier Hosted Games label?

It's because of good stories, realistic characters, top-notch writing. Imo which are all things that not every CoG game has.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago
TLDR: everyone who is interested in publishing under HG can do so and the successful books pay for the failures. Now I can't speak on whatever this model was successful so far, he made it sound like it wasn't and that he allows amateurs to publish under HG out of principle, and that he doesn't even read most of them. But he could be full of shit - and if he isn't that sounds very irresponsible.

When asked about contracts he said the only way to increase individual author's pay is by selling more books - so that's the CoG/HG job (the author's too if we are being realistic but they shouldn't be doing most of the work otherwise what's the point of having a publisher?), and I guess implicitly he just suggested they suck at it.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago

When asked about contracts he said the only way to increase individual author's pay is by selling more books - so that's the CoG/HG job (the author's too if we are being realistic but they shouldn't be doing most of the work otherwise what's the point of having a publisher?

I don't know--in a situation where a platform is publishing an amateur's work without necessarily vetting the whole of its content or without it having an editor or copyeditor, I would guess the main work in selling more copies would be on the author producing a really high quality product. 

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago
I just thought it was weird that Jason admitted he didn't read Hosted Games but published them anyway. The very possibility that a game he didn't read (and wasn't going to read) COULD have had a long list of horrible torture and child rape etc secretly added to it without his knowledge was the reason he said he wasn't publishing Price of Freedom, even though we all know that game is clean enough it could be handed to middle schoolers without hesitation.

I don't think it's confusing to be confused about why he doesn't have this kind of prudence across the board. Like when publishing Sammy's games, for instance.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago
Oops, correction. That was why he refused to even allow a thread telling her fans there it had been published here for free. Refusing to publish it was some other made up (and quickly debunked) bullshit.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago

I just thought it was weird that Jason admitted he didn't read Hosted Games but published them anyway. The very possibility that a game he didn't read (and wasn't going to read) COULD have had a long list of horrible torture and child rape etc secretly added to it without his knowledge was the reason he said he wasn't publishing Price of Freedom, even though we all know that game is clean enough it could be handed to middle schoolers without hesitation.

Caveat that I know very little about the innermost workings of HG, but I didn't take that to mean that nobody looks at it, just that he does not do so personally.  Also, since all HGs have to be publicly beta tested on the forum, the content of the game will likely make itself known.  But yeah, I would guess that HG that are accepted receive less scrutiny than CoGs that are accepted, no doubt.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago

I don't know all that much about it, but didn't somebody get fired over publishing one of the Samurai of Hyuga games, and not vetting the content thoroughly enough? Of course, they still kept the game published because... You know... Money! ^_^

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago

but didn't somebody get fired over publishing one of the Samurai of Hyuga games, and not vetting the content thoroughly enough

Not that I know about.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago

Can't remember where I heard that. Will have to ask around.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago

I'm confused about what you are confused about.  It might be the confused penguin profile picture, though.

"Why are Wayhaven/Fallen Hero/Samurai of Hyuga/Infinity Series so lauded despite being in the lower tier Hosted Games label?  It's because of good stories, realistic characters, top-notch writing. Imo which are all things that not every CoG game has."

I would be surprised if every single CoG game were rated better than every single HG game.  Those games you mention have tons of fans.  Are you asking why they were published under HG if they are so good?

 

 

 

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago
I think the real question before that was why a series that has been proven to be as popular if not more so than many in main line of games doesn't lead to any of the same support for the author, with marketing and editing and so on. They're all painted with the same brush of "Hosted, therefore complete crap published out of pity, therefore we're never going to let ourselves be associated with it and you MAY NOT speak of it on our reddit."

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago

why a series that has been proven to be as popular if not more so than many in main line of games doesn't lead to any of the same support for the author, with marketing and editing

I can't speak to whether series that have demonstrated serious success receive a contract different from baseline entrants into the HG line.  I would guess that for some HG authors full editorial control of their product, including a lack of deadlines, is an active benefit of being in HG rather than CoG.  Certainly the money is the same for successful games of the type we're talking about.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago

Hosted, therefore complete crap published out of pity

That sort of tone I must have missed.  Where was that bit?

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago
Well then what's your opinion on why Jason is so adamant about not letting Hosted Games be mentioned on the subreddit? That and confusion over this hard rule that he'd never mentioned to anyone before was what started this entire thing.

He did say the games had no quality standards and were published only to help the authors, but it's the "wanting to keep a lot of daylight between them and CoG" bit and the fact that he can't stand to have the titles even mentioned in his presence without frantically deleting the posts and then sanitizing the spot that leads to the impression he dislikes and looks down on them.

Well that and the general impression that thread gives that he dislikes and looks down on everyone.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago

To be fair, I think every thread I've ever seen him post in gives the general impression that he dislikes and looks down on everyone. :p

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago

He did say the games had no quality standards and were published only to help the authors

Don't make me go through the Reddit thread looking for what you are referring to here about the "only to help the authors."  I'll go quite mad.  I can only take exposure to Reddit in small controlled doses.

Well then what's your opinion on why Jason is so adamant about not letting Hosted Games be mentioned on the subreddit?

I guess he wants to make a distinction between the two labels, like a publisher might want different web presences for different imprints.  I don't know that I personally would make that call If I Ran the Zoo, but that's how it is.  But I don't really know enough about it to know why it is or, or to care about having to click one button to get over to the HG side on the rare moments I want to look at reddit.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago

It's just a bizarre situation in general. Like was mentioned in the forums, reddits of certain subjects are generally created and moderated by the fans of said subjects, but I guess Jason just wants to have complete control over what other people say about his companies... More specifically, what people say about him. :p

Revelations at the COG Ranch

29 days ago
Well if you're not even going to read the reddit, let me go ahead and just inform you that Jason may very well be posting graphic descriptions of torture and child rape, previously only available on his OnlyFans. How can you publish through such a company?!?!?!

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago
It's the conception that Hosted Games are "inferior" to CoG. Regardless of how popular and good they are, all Hosted Games are treated as works by amateur authors (which is the impression I'm getting) and as far as I know, receive the same amount of marketing as the other stuff that gets through the radar.

Speaking purely from a customer's perspective, a brand that mixes good stuff along with the bad stuff is going to get confusing really fast. It doesn't help when the so-called higher tier has worse games than the lower tier. Reviews are handy, sure, but then you have one-star ratings complaining about the game being paid lol.

I guess I'm asking a ton of different questions here, but all in all, it really comes down to the difference between CoG and Hosted and whether a customer can understand what that is or should care about it.

Especially on a *subreddit* of all things.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago

Judging by what he's saying about how CoG and HG have "different missions" and "different customers" and "just because one customer is more online, it doesn't mean the other doesn't exist", I get the impression that Jason doesn't consider HG inferior because of the quality of content, but more because they're not woke enough for him.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago

Let me sum your points up so I can make sure I understand.

I think you are saying:

1.  All Hosted Games are considered "amateur" works by the company (by which you mean they receive less advertising).  I'm not sure how else you mean "amateur" there.  Are there other ways that you mean that, or is it mainly the situation with advertising?

2.  The company over all has "good" Hosted Games and "bad" hosted games, and having a mix of qualities published by the same label is confusing to the would-be purchaser. 

3.  The Choice of label has worse games overall than Hosted.

3.  Reviews are not sufficient to determine quality of the games.

4.  In general, customers have difficulty distinguishing the precise distinction between CoG and HG.

That's what I take as your points.  Is that right?  Can you correct me where I'm not following?

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago
I'm not sure if this is a productive use of your time really. If you've looked at any of the pictures in this thread where Jason is saying the things, it's pretty clear the primary issue is that people are upset (understandably) because he's just being a raging cunt. The open contempt and the attitude on display would not fly when speaking to customers at any other company in the world.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago

If people have questions, I don't mind seeing what they want to know about if it's something I can answer.  That doesn't feel like a bad use of my time.  I agree that there's a lot of confusion about the difference between the labels--I see that not infrequently on the CoG forum. 

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago
1. I'm not 100% certain about less advertising. From what I've seen, that does seem to be the case, but for me though, it's the perception that Hosted Games are made by amateur authors, less skilled than those on Choice of Games.

Given Jason's replies on the subreddit, I think this is his perception as well.

2. Correct

3. Not worse overall. There are plenty of standouts on CoG, Tally Ho and its sequel to name a few, it's just that their quality isn't often as high as one would expect from a higher tier label. Not to mention the quality seems to be going down in recent years - I can't pinpoint anything more exact than this so I apologize, but recently, the only CoG game I really anticipated was Tally Ho's sequel and Night Road.

4. I would say that reviews are not sufficient, yes.

5. Yes. I initially thought the distinction was "pros write for CoG" and "newbies write for Hosted", which was indeed the case a few years back before the Infinity saga and the Samurai series released.

Also, thanks for clearing things up Gower!

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago
Yes, very good, constant praise of Tally Ho is the only way we keep Gower around.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago

I need constant praise or else I smash my computer.  It's a problem in class as well.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago
Please don't. We need the sequel of the sequel lol.

Also if it makes things more meaningful, I totally forgot that you wrote it. It's so good that even in the middle of a rant I praise thee. :P

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago

it's the perception that Hosted Games are made by amateur authors, less skilled than those on Choice of Games.

I would guess the perception is all over the place.  For example, one problem I hear is "people have this big distinction between CoG and HG" and another problem I hear is "people can't distinguish between the two" which are, like, opposite problems, but you aren't wrong that different people get confused about it.  For me, it's not confusing, because I talk about it all the time, but I get how people are confused.

I would guess the great majority of Hosted Games are made by amateur authors, in the real sense of amateur, where "amateur" means "nonprofessional" and not "less skilled."  Don't conflate the two.  Amateur is not an insult or a judging of quality.  It indicates that the writer in question hasn't previously been paid for their writing.   I imagine some HG authors may indeed be professionals, though, and choose an HG contract for other reasons.

 

Sidenote:  I recently assigned a 4-6 page final paper, and someone asked if 5 pages were ok.  I get confusion about stuff.  Also, many many people are confused and think that a single person writes these games, or that there is a specific small group of people who collaborate to write them.  Like, if there's a way to not understand a thing, it will not be understood by some group of people.

 

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago
Exactly! Given the lack of clarity on the line between CoG and HG, it's too much to remove posts about a Hosted game on the CoG subreddit outright.

It feels like Jason wants every one to go to the site to double check which company the game you want to talk about falls under before posting. Which is just inane in my opinion.

It only serves to prevent people from talking about games rather than keep things clear.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago
It's not just subreddit unfortunately, it's steam too. You don't publish under one big label, the games are published separately and for a new customer it's confusing - it was for me, and I already knew what games I wanted to buy and I had to manually search for them.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago

What do you think the best way to organize the games in Steam would be?  I would guess that if you know the names of the games you wanted to buy, it would be pretty quick to look up the games in question, whether they were sorted into two labels or not.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago
Yes, of course - I'd have no problem, but I did find it confusing at first and I imagine a lot of new customers do as well. I think both Hosted Games and CoG games should be in the same place, perhaps sorted in different folders which is something Steam allows you to do - you don't need a separate account. Another issue I have is with the branding -"Choice of Games" tells me a lot about the brand, "Hosted Games" could mean anything, so the label naturally won't attract as much attention - the games themselves, individually will.
Another thing is: If you want to increase your sales perhaps you should listen to your customers more, instead of having your CEO argue with people on reddit.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago

To be fair, there's not really anything Gower can do about it.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

27 days ago
Well he's not talking down at us which is already a point in my book :P

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago
They do 100% get less advertising, Jason confirmed it in one of the images.

"Yes, HG authors have to handle their own artwork. And COGs get more marketing support—but that certainly doesn't meant that HGs get zero."

Granted, it was phrased as COGs getting more, but saying HGs get less isn't wrong (unless you're trying to talk about it in a very specific way).

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago

Yes, that's true.  CoG games get some more marketing support.  A bit more, to my understanding.  There are definite pros and cons to both labels, and this one is a small +1 to the CoG side.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago
From what I understand (not necessarily from this thread tho) is that COG authors have deadlines and get editor(s)/proofreader(s)?

Having a pro editor/proofreader would be a big plus, and deadlines can be good even if they can also be stressful.


I never looked into COG author requirements, I assume they don't offer the contracts to anyone who asks? Aha.

But I'm getting side tracked now, as these questions are a bit beside the point.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago

Yes, there are deadlines, and there are certain style guidelines that need to be worked within for the CoG label.  But yes, you also have the wonderful help of an editor and a copyeditor, which is great.

I assume they don't offer the contracts to anyone who asks?

Right.  You have to have your pitch and outline accepted.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago
I think there are other people like Gower who like Jason a lot but are afraid to speak up.

If you're one of the silent majority and you feel the same way about Jason that I do, put this in your profile or make it your pfp

https://imgur.com/swF3Ia4.jpg

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago
Pass. Nice goatse reference though, haven't seen one of those in awhile. (Kids, don't look it up.)

Revelations at the COG Ranch

19 days ago
hmm...

Revelations at the COG Ranch

19 days ago
Holy fuck

Revelations at the COG Ranch

19 days ago
Ugh. And THAT wasn't blocked?

Your parents were right to take away your phone and chain you up at the bottom of a well.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

19 days ago
There was a fucking image as well

School's IT department must've been slacking off.

But really, I thought it was something about goats

Revelations at the COG Ranch

19 days ago

I personally think it would've been worse had there been a goat involved.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

19 days ago
Okay, so a little history lesson. Back in the days of yore before you could go around just blithely making images appear on other people's screens, you had to trick them into clicking links.

Goatse was one of the earlier shock images making the rounds, and it was hosted at goatse.cx. Which looks a lot like 'goat sex' and is the only indication anyone had that something may be amiss.

So imagine you're playing Diablo 2 online in 2001, and someone is going around asking for ways to dupe items. You would give them that link while claiming it's got instructions for exactly what they want, while anyone else present just quietly giggles to themselves (if they're in the know. If not...well everyone got gotten at some point.)

I never tried to make anyone look at it though, I would just tell them they had to go to some specific place, lay all their rare and expensive items out on the ground, and then hit Alt F4.


(Btw I have no idea if that goatse.cx still functions or what may be there now, and frankly I'm not willing to risk it. Although a man's gaping anus is surely most tame and wholesome compared to all the decomposing dead people memes the kids trade around now, don't blame me if you fail your Willpower save again.)

Revelations at the COG Ranch

19 days ago
No, I'm not dumb enough to visit that website.

I'll search it up instead.

Edit: Seems like the site is down, but there's mirror ones.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

19 days ago

That site was defunct a long time ago, but due to everyone posting the pics, it got mirrored on a bunch of others.

Anyway, that's it for today's history in early internet trolling.

Join us next time for our feminist lecture on tubgirl and eel woman.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

19 days ago
Peng is probably reading ahead in the curriculum already, like an overachieving Asian stereotype.

(Peng, these are genuinely mind scarring, for once in your life please don't.)

Revelations at the COG Ranch

19 days ago
I didn't.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

19 days ago

Never heard of them. Must google! ^_^

Revelations at the COG Ranch

19 days ago

Well, now I know. Got to admire Japanese priorities. Very thoughtful of them to blurr tub girl's vagina to preserve her modesty. ^_^

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago

Yahoo!! ^_^

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago
If you got logged out, it's because I saw that avatar and accidentally banned you by reflex.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago

I did. :p

Revelations at the COG Ranch

28 days ago

See, Jason should have hired Gower to do his spin doctoring.

Also further proof of the superiority of our site in that we aren't silencing alternative viewpoints or banning people because of them.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

25 days ago
Looks like a thread was posted about this on Intfiction, then swiftly locked before any of the many CoG authors and players there has a chance to agree or disagree.

https://intfiction.org/t/anyone-is-having-trouble-with-the-choice-of-games-subreddit-moderation/50511

The guy who asserted that Intfiction was a "neutral" place for discussion was clearly wrong, but then again Hanon and the other mod staff have had their mouths firmly sealed around Dan's dick for years even though many in the community itself don't seem find of him. (Something about the long winded condescension of all his posts just rubbing peeple the wrong way, plus the fact he's slipped in and taken control of every major part of their decades old community...)

Also not the first time I've noticed a bias against people with English as a second language over there. But hmm, I wonder though, what "meme forum" could that other poster be referring to...?

Interesting also that Mathbrush claims there's been discussion of the r/interactive fictions break away on four separate forums. Because we're probably one of them, but obviously no one's allowed to speak of it on Intfiction or CoG, and I'm not really aware of any other IF forums.

He claims all these forums are equally "toxic", but I suspect it's one of those things where anyone upset or voicing disagreement just gets labeled that out of convenience.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

25 days ago

Honestly the whole Intfic crew at this point are faggier than the tumblrinas that rebelled against CoG. Not surprised they lock stepped on this like the pegboy gimp slaves they all are.

The fascist feminine CoG penis isn't going to suck itself without IFaggot help after all.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

25 days ago
I see them as far faggier than CoG itself to be honest. Dan is a self important cunt and Jason is an asshole with some kind of personality disorder, but this is America, that's almost expected if you're running a business. Or at any rate if they're openly abusing enough customers and chasing off their authors, that's something the market will eventually correct. (Not as punishment for being terrible, but as a punishment for not putting in PR people.)

But Intfiction....well, many years ago on rec.arts.int-fiction, there was a community that had strong opinions about IF and was not afraid to argue. They were a little elitist but they earned it.

Then they had their first upheavals after finally moving to a forum and just never recovered. They brought Dan in to save them from the pain of mild disagreement like the limp passionless slugs they were, and now they're just eunuchs that took the scissors to themselves. Lots of the authors that defined the old one have either moved on or been driven out. I'm not sure how many of the current crop that didn't directly benefit from the changes is even aware of the history of the place, since (like many other things) it's literally not even allowed to be discussed.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

19 days ago
The problem plaguing the world of interactive fiction today is social media, just like it's the problem with most things. You should all admire Jason's uncontrolled assholishness, it's such a rare and vanishing thing that not many are willing to commit to with their real names attached. But if you wonder why interaction fiction has become so bland and neutered and "woke", it's because you're looking at something that was written to be trumpeted about on a social media page or used to bolster a resume.
Art has become empty narcisstic grasping, because in the days of doxxing and cancelling, this is all the world we live in allows. Freedom is still possible, but no one will consider publishing something without their name attached because they're writing for the wrong reasons. It's all a big betrayal of the true visionaries who paved the way over the centuries, who were NEVER creatures of social norms. I'm certain they watch from their graves in disgust at the new race of cringing dogs who only publish things their employer and grandmother would approve.
The anonymity of internet gave everyone a chance to be a visionary while still living a normal life, and that's been given up and thrown out with the garbage for money and for a desperate need for attention and credit.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

19 days ago
In the cases of some of these people I agree, although I don't think any of this was the main issue this time around. (And no one will ever try to argue that social media isn't a cancer dragging down all human progress, of course.) But I also can't help but notice how every time there's drama related to CoG, we get these accounts posting that never do anything else on the site but bust through the front door to rant and then leave.

Now I understand that this is in large part just because this is the only forum where you're allowed to express dissatisfaction with the status quo, and we're never going to change that. But having recognized us as the superior IF site, it would be great if you guys could pay your dues and rate a few games at least.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

25 days ago
Also I keep seeing this thread in the index and thinking the title ought to be Revelations at the CoG Ranch! with a picture of cowboys shooting it out, for added excitement. "Subreddit" just didn't have any oomph to it.

Revelations at the COG Ranch

19 days ago
I was ignoring this thread, but the new ascetic is really drawing me in.